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  1. #361
    Your resident cynic. Wishmaker Jirachi's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    I've been keeping an eye on the later pages of this topic discussion for a while, and I guess I'll put my 2c in...or $1.50 if you can read all that.
    First of all, I believe that the OD is not Arceus, for most of the reasons stated above...and unless I missed it, I'll add that the theories surrounding Arceus might also disprove the theory - Arceus might have shaped the land, but he might not have shaped all Pokémon up to that point (which kinda ties in with "Which came first: The Mew or the Arceus?")...minus the Lake Trio and Creation Trio.
    Second, there's a gameplay reason which I think would be logical because of how broken it would be: Considering how powerful the Tao Trio is, and even more so when one of them is merged with Kyurem, having all three fused together would break the limits with skyrocketing stats, making it more powerful than Arceus in base stat total and sheer attacking power.
    Third, my guess as to what the OD is directs itself more towards the fact that Kyurem is just a shell of it, and Reshiram and Zekrom were the ones who split from the Original Dragon to become what they are now as Pokémon. If anything, my best bet is that it won't be a Kyurem fusion at all and instead do a Gene Wedge on Reshiram and Zekrom instead!
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  2. #362
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    I hope we eventually get a "perfect kyurem." I also hope it's left and right sides are symmetrical. I hate how all of kyurem's forms aren't symmetrical, it drives me crazy.
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    Monster Professor Dr. Mecha's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    Quote Originally Posted by Wishmaker Jirachi View Post
    Second, there's a gameplay reason which I think would be logical because of how broken it would be: Considering how powerful the Tao Trio is, and even more so when one of them is merged with Kyurem, having all three fused together would break the limits with skyrocketing stats, making it more powerful than Arceus in base stat total and sheer attacking power.
    I think we already concluded that its base stat total will be the same as Arceus's, judging by the stat pattern below:
    Kyurem: 660
    Reshiram/Zekrom: 680
    Black/White Kuyrem: 700
    Arceus/Oringal Dragon: 720

    Which means the original dragon's base stat will be this:
    Hp:125
    Phy Atk: 145
    Phy Def: 105
    Spc Att: 145
    Spc Def: 105
    Spd: 95

    Also, Arceus have multitype; which means it could use the plate for ANY situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wishmaker Jirachi View Post
    If anything, my best bet is that it won't be a Kyurem fusion at all and instead do a Gene Wedge on Reshiram and Zekrom instead!
    Yet it only works on Kyurem.
    Last edited by Dr. Mecha; 20th August 2012 at 08:14 PM.
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    well,I Hope it happens.
    Fusion
    Item;[To combine the 3 to Original]Key Wedge!
    This is my guess if it would be real.
    Based on the patterns it The Base Stat Total will Be 740.

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  5. #365
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    [QUOTE=Dr. Mecha;4286888]
    Quote Originally Posted by Wishmaker Jirachi View Post

    Which means the original dragon's base stat will be this:
    Hp:125
    Phy Atk: 145
    Phy Def: 105
    Spc Att: 145
    Spc Def: 105
    Spd: 95
    It doesn't mean any of its individual offensive stats is weaker either, if you give it an ability to take advantage of that "limitless energy" theme it should have. Just have an ability that makes Fusion Flare/Bolt always be at double power (like when they are used consecutively) and remove all charge times for all moves that have them.

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    Serperior rules us all Catilena1890's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    Alright, I read this thing all the way from post 1, so I think I can throw myself in this debate and get taken seriously. Here goes nothing.

    First off, someone said earlier that a creature like the OD, considering how important it is to the unova legend and whatnot, would get its own game if it were to exist, just because it is the core of Unovan legend. *rolls up newspaper and bops* NO. By that logic, Arceus should have gotten its own game in generation 4, because as the creator of the Creation Trio, it is automatically the core of Sinnoh Legend. As we do not have a Pokemon Prism Version, that is proof enough that just because this thing is big, bad, and without it we wouldn't exist, it doesn't deserve it's own story.

    That's not to say that OD WON'T get its own game, or even Arceus for that matter, but I highly doubt we will see it this generation. In this generation, we are going to see Kyurem turn into an even more freaky-looking dragon. Isn't THAT worth playing around with? I mean come on guys! We JUST GOT pokemon fusion, and it isn't even available outside of Japan yet! Be patient and wait for the games to hit our stores, and then play with your mutant Kyurem.

    IF we see an OD or a game based on OD, it won't be until GENERATION SEVEN, when we GO BACK to Unova, based on GF's track records of doing remakes every 2 generations. Just because it is a central part of the Unovan plot, that doesn't mean we need to see WHY just yet. We WILL, just not right NOW. To support my theory, let's forget about Unova, Sinnoh, and Hoenn right now. Enter: Pokemon Gold Version and Pokemon Silver Version. No Heart or Soul needed.

    Tell me, what was Ho-oh and Lugia's role in Gold/Silver/Crystal? What did they contribute to the game? Anyone? Well, the answers to that are the legendary dogs, a city-restricted legend, a myth-obsessed weirdo who has an unhealthy fondness for Suicune who more than likely would file a restraining order if it could. What do these things have in common? Ho-oh. Ho-oh made the legendary dogs, who serve no purpose other than being really f**king annoying to catch. That's about as far as Ho-oh's role went. Morty or someone makes a short quip about how it will only appear to someone of pure heart and that's it. Lugia meanwhile, gets the short end of the stick. It has someone calling it the bastard child of a bird and a dragon in the same city that obsesses with Ho-oh's legend and that is as far as Lugia's role went. We don't even know Lugia's connection to the legendary birds aside from one acting like a depressed shield against them while Ash saved the world with his balls. Let's face it, Johto treated its legends like crap.

    Now fast forward a few years and let's head back to Sinnoh. After knocking around Giratina, we found out that Gold and Silver are coming back with Heart and Soul. As we begin the game, we discover that, unlike way back in GSC, they play a much bigger, though still minor role in the games, one that actually ties in with it's re-written story. It only took what, 10 years for GF to decide "HEY WAIt A SECOND! These version mascots are legendaries! We should make them more important to the game!".

    While I DON'T think they`ll be able to get away with a 10-year gap a second time, I guarantee you that IF the OD is all it is cracked up to be, then GF WILL revisit it the same way they revisted the Ho-oh/Lugia legend in HG/SS. We just need to be PATIENT and enjoy what we have now. I am really excited to see what White Kyurem is made of. Which leads into a whole other argument I don't feel like making, so I`ll summarize by saying this is most likely a marketing technique made to get us ready for an OD. If B/W Kyurem is really so powerful and badass, who knows what an OD would be like? Think of this as like a test-run to see how we LIKE pokemon fusion. It's one thing to say it LOOKS cool, and a whole nother to say it IS cool. Remember the new battle mechanic in Ruby and Sapphire where you could send out 2 pokemon at once? How often did we get those in RS?

  7. #367
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    Pokemon Fusion has been hinted at since Gen 1, things like Slowpoke and Shellder making Slowbro.

    While I like the idea of Kyurem and the other 3 all merging into the OD, similar to Cell from DBZ I worry for the chain of events it would cause.

    Deoxys was amazing because it was the first Pokemon to have different forms (not counting Unown aesthetic changes) with stats and could change at will. Now we have a lot of Pokemon that can do that it's not so rare anymore. I worry that in Gen 7, a whole bunch of standard Pokemon will be fusing at will into more powerful creatures.

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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    Seeing as B/W is a somewhat parallel to G1, and G1 got an indirect sequel in G2 with Lugia as the trio master of the birds (the birds didn't have a story like the tao trio), I think we could see the OD in G6.
    If G6 doesn't have triple typing (which I desire for some reason), it would be Fire/Electric type with an ability called Overdrive which gives STAB to it's dragon and ice moves.
    But that's just me.

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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    Quote Originally Posted by 4fghan View Post
    Seeing as B/W is a somewhat parallel to G1, and G1 got an indirect sequel in G2 with Lugia as the trio master of the birds (the birds didn't have a story like the tao trio), I think we could see the OD in G6.
    If G6 doesn't have triple typing (which I desire for some reason), it would be Fire/Electric type with an ability called Overdrive which gives STAB to it's dragon and ice moves.
    But that's just me.
    Lugia was only the bird's trio master in the anime and some spinoff games. A better comparison would be the Regi trio and Regigigas. And given what Overdrive looks like it's doing for Kyurem, having it give stab to fire and electric would probably make more sense. And I can't see the original dragon not being, well, dragon-typed.

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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    Quote Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 4fghan View Post
    Seeing as B/W is a somewhat parallel to G1, and G1 got an indirect sequel in G2 with Lugia as the trio master of the birds (the birds didn't have a story like the tao trio), I think we could see the OD in G6.
    If G6 doesn't have triple typing (which I desire for some reason), it would be Fire/Electric type with an ability called Overdrive which gives STAB to it's dragon and ice moves.
    But that's just me.
    Lugia was only the bird's trio master in the anime and some spinoff games. A better comparison would be the Regi trio and Regigigas. And given what Overdrive looks like it's doing for Kyurem, having it give stab to fire and electric would probably make more sense. And I can't see the original dragon not being, well, dragon-typed.
    Ah, thanks for the clarification. But, as I said, the OD would only be appropriate as a triple typed Pokemon. If GF bring triple typing to G6, then that would be awesome and make some legendaries we see as useless today as genuine threats tomorrow.

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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    Quote Originally Posted by 4fghan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 4fghan View Post
    Seeing as B/W is a somewhat parallel to G1, and G1 got an indirect sequel in G2 with Lugia as the trio master of the birds (the birds didn't have a story like the tao trio), I think we could see the OD in G6.
    If G6 doesn't have triple typing (which I desire for some reason), it would be Fire/Electric type with an ability called Overdrive which gives STAB to it's dragon and ice moves.
    But that's just me.
    Lugia was only the bird's trio master in the anime and some spinoff games. A better comparison would be the Regi trio and Regigigas. And given what Overdrive looks like it's doing for Kyurem, having it give stab to fire and electric would probably make more sense. And I can't see the original dragon not being, well, dragon-typed.
    Ah, thanks for the clarification. But, as I said, the OD would only be appropriate as a triple typed Pokemon. If GF bring triple typing to G6, then that would be awesome and make some legendaries we see as useless today as genuine threats tomorrow.
    Keep in mind that the Original Dragon is what Reshiram, Zekrom and Kyurem split from, not a combination of all of them. It could easily be pure dragon, or dragon/water, or dragon/some other type representing pure energy (as Reshiram's fire and Zekrom's electricity represent different aspects of energy, and Kyurem's ice is the lack of it). And even if they did introduce triple types, I doubt they'd retcon any existing Pokemon to have them, even legendaries.

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    Monster Professor Dr. Mecha's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    Quote Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 4fghan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 4fghan View Post
    Seeing as B/W is a somewhat parallel to G1, and G1 got an indirect sequel in G2 with Lugia as the trio master of the birds (the birds didn't have a story like the tao trio), I think we could see the OD in G6.
    If G6 doesn't have triple typing (which I desire for some reason), it would be Fire/Electric type with an ability called Overdrive which gives STAB to it's dragon and ice moves.
    But that's just me.
    Lugia was only the bird's trio master in the anime and some spinoff games. A better comparison would be the Regi trio and Regigigas. And given what Overdrive looks like it's doing for Kyurem, having it give stab to fire and electric would probably make more sense. And I can't see the original dragon not being, well, dragon-typed.
    Ah, thanks for the clarification. But, as I said, the OD would only be appropriate as a triple typed Pokemon. If GF bring triple typing to G6, then that would be awesome and make some legendaries we see as useless today as genuine threats tomorrow.
    Keep in mind that the Original Dragon is what Reshiram, Zekrom and Kyurem split from, not a combination of all of them. It could easily be pure dragon, or dragon/water, or dragon/some other type representing pure energy (as Reshiram's fire and Zekrom's electricity represent different aspects of energy, and Kyurem's ice is the lack of it). And even if they did introduce triple types, I doubt they'd retcon any existing Pokemon to have them, even legendaries.
    Then again, the plates told us that time/space/antimatter was split from Arceus, or as it was stated, made from pieces of it.
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  13. #373
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    Quote Originally Posted by 4fghan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by 4fghan View Post
    Seeing as B/W is a somewhat parallel to G1, and G1 got an indirect sequel in G2 with Lugia as the trio master of the birds (the birds didn't have a story like the tao trio), I think we could see the OD in G6.
    If G6 doesn't have triple typing (which I desire for some reason), it would be Fire/Electric type with an ability called Overdrive which gives STAB to it's dragon and ice moves.
    But that's just me.
    Lugia was only the bird's trio master in the anime and some spinoff games. A better comparison would be the Regi trio and Regigigas. And given what Overdrive looks like it's doing for Kyurem, having it give stab to fire and electric would probably make more sense. And I can't see the original dragon not being, well, dragon-typed.
    Ah, thanks for the clarification. But, as I said, the OD would only be appropriate as a triple typed Pokemon. If GF bring triple typing to G6, then that would be awesome and make some legendaries we see as useless today as genuine threats tomorrow.
    How would it only be appropriate as a triple typed Pokemon? Im not a fan of the concept of making things triple typed as it would completely overhaul the battle system and make things very complicated so honestly I don't seem them doing that. The OD could easily just be pure Dragon or Dragon/Psychic or something like that.

  14. #374
    Serperior rules us all Catilena1890's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    I don't think that we'll ever have Triple Typing. Can you imagine how much coding would go into that? I mean you'd have to write in a variable that tells the game how a triple-typed pokemon would react to a certain move. If a pokemon had a Grass/Ice/Dragon typing, how effective would a fire type move be on it? Grass and ice are weak to fire, but dragon resists it. It can't do super-effective damage to it because of the dragon typing, but it can't be neutral because it has TWO types weak to fire. What do you do?

    And how broken the game would be if pokemon DID have three types? Anything that had a triple-weakness typing (Ground/Rock/Fire, Grass/Steel/Ice, Flying/Dragon/Grass, etc.) would NEVER be included on a battling team because of how easy it would be to take them out, even without STAB. Heck, a Meowth that knew water pulse would take out the Ground/Rock/Fire type despite not being fully evolved AND having a higher attack over special attack.

    I`m going to have to say that OD will most likely be pure Dragon. Why? Because of the aspects of Yin and Yang that Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem represent. Reshiram and Zekrom represent one part of energy that is one-sided and not completely balanced. Kyurem represents the lack of energy and has NO balance. White Kyurem and Black Kyurem represent the attempt at restoring balance, so why shouldn't OD represent COMPLETE balance? It doesn't NEED another type because it already has all of the aspects of the other three dragons.

    Let's bring Arceus back in for a second. Remember movie 12? What made Arceus throw a pissy party to begin with? The Jewel of Life. What was the Jewel of Life? It was ONE pure sphere of energy. To make it, Arceus combined Water, Grass, Ground to give it the power needed to restore the land, Dragon to boost the power, and Electricity to bind the four. However, that doesn't make the Jewel of Life a substitute for the Splash, Meadow, Earth, Draco, or Zap Plates. Why? Because Arceus had to separate it before it could regain its lost powers!

    The OD's relationship with the Tao Trio is the same thing. OD is the Jewel of Life and Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem are the five plates. The OD, while being made up of fire, electricity, and ice as well as dragon, is NOT the same as that which make it what it is. The OD is not the sum of its parts anymore than the Jewel of Life was. Heck, it might not even be a dragon type! For all we know it could be a psychic type, or even a bug type. How do we know the Original Dragon IS a Dragon? And don't say "because it has DRAGON in its name!". I can think of SEVERAL pokemon that SHOULD be Dragon-type, but aren't. I`m looking at you, Charizard and Tyranitar. Don't worry Gyarados and Milotic, I didn't forget you either. Or you Aerodactyl.
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  15. #375
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    Default Re: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

    Hmm, yes, now I see why triple typing would be silly. If they would make the OD unique, the only thing they could do is introduce a new type, or as someone before me said, leave it as pure Dragon. It'll be interesting to see how thing pans out

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