Thread: "Perfect" Kyurem - rebirth of the Original Dragon

Originally Posted by El_

Like I stated before, Arceus should have little or nothing to do with the Original Dragon. If Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem were all once Arceus, then they all should have been introduced in Sinnoh as opposed to Unova, thats all there is to it. Bulbapedia's page about Arceus's myth does tell how it is very similar to Taoism, which I do agree with, but its referring to the Creation Trio and not the Tao Trio.

Remember Regigigas being introduced in a different generation than Regi trio.

I'm not a big supporter of Arceus being OD, but I think it's not impossible. Anyway, since Arceus is stated as the God Pokémon and all, can be related with anything. If OD isn't Arceus, it could be related somehow anyway, or even be sort of a counterpart (specially if OD's base stat is 720 as theorized). Its outer space origin makes this connection more likely. Also, I think there could be a reason why Ghetsis was in possession of Adamant, Lustrous and Griseus orbs.

About OD, I think it could be sort of Dragon-Multitype, taking either Fire, Electric or Ice as secondary type (or none, in its "natural" form).

Let's assume both Arceus and ghe Original Dragon's stories are based on some truth.

If the Original Dragon exists, but stopped being an entity when it split, why do we still have Arceus?

Just because Arceus can *be* any type, it does not mean it is the Original Dragon. I think people are taking the term "original" too literally to mean it is the progenitor of ALL dragons when the term "Original" more accurately refers to Reshiram, Zekrom, and Kyurem's original state.

It'd be pretty lame if Arceus turned out to be the Original Dragon. I'd rather see a new species of Pokemon. I've had enough of Arceus, as well as Kyurem's formes...well, just formes in general, to be honest.

Kyurem is just the hollow vessel of the original dragon and zekrom and reshiram are a divided consiousness

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust

Remember Regigigas being introduced in a different generation than Regi trio.

Yeah, I think we all remember that: Gamefreak said, "Hey, let's stuff yet another legend into Gen 4 that nobody really cares about. Oh, and let's make it be a Regi, too, but not explain why this one is in an entirely different place than the others, and generally give it no backstory or purpose."
That's what I (and others) are afraid will happen to OD - he'll just be another obligatory legendary with no significance, like Regigigas.

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust

Then, what are doing a Heatran, a Cresselia, and the three lake guardians in Unova? And why Ghetsis had the Creation trio orbs?

THE reason Ghetsis/the Shadow Triad had the Orbs was because you can't send items from Gen 4 games into B/W, and fans would throw a fit if the Creation Trio (especially Giratina) couldn't get their items. As for Heatran, Cresselia, Uxie, Azelf & Mespirit: they shouldn't be - particularly Cresselia, who exists to counter Darkrai, who isn't in Isshu, and the Lake Guardians, whose lakes are on the other side of the world. It's just like @smalllady and @Silktree said; removing Legendary Pokemon/plot-oriented items from their respective stories removes their significance. It'd be like putting Squall in FF12 because he was popular and Squenix wanted people to get nostalgic for FF8, but not explaining what he was doing there, how he got there, or anything.

We can't really say that the Original Dragon has nothing to do with another region (if introduced in a separate region) until we know about said region and the Original Dragon's origins.

Still, I feel like Unova would had been the best place for it considering the theme of "oneness" if you want to call it that fits with the idea of three separate Dragons representing different things coming together as one. That was a big opportunity missed there.

Well,No
Since the pokemon IN B/W2 Has been revealed

Originally Posted by Leader1234567

Well,No
Since the pokemon IN B/W2 Has been revealed

But that doesn't stop it being revealed in a later game! There was a region talked about that N went to. Just as Johto and Sinnoh share some mythology in the form of Sinjoh ruins, or how the Regis are in a bunch of regions, Unova could share too with another region.

There is nothing preventing Game Freak from creating an item in Gen 6 similar to the Gene Wedge that allows Kyurem to absorb both Reshiram and Zekrom.

Originally Posted by Therian

But that doesn't stop it being revealed in a later game! There was a region talked about that N went to. Just as Johto and Sinnoh share some mythology in the form of Sinjoh ruins, or how the Regis are in a bunch of regions, Unova could share too with another region.

There is nothing preventing Game Freak from creating an item in Gen 6 similar to the Gene Wedge that allows Kyurem to absorb both Reshiram and Zekrom.

Johto, Kanto and Sinnoh are all in Japan, if you base the regions solely on their geography. (Hoenn is too - it's Kyushu turned on its side, but that's south of where we're talking about so nevermind.) The Creation Trio and Arceus perhaps look the way they do perhaps due to influence from Ainu culture which comes from Hokkaido (kind of), which is what Sinnoh is based on, map-wise. It's less than 1000 miles between Tokyo, which is either Saffron or perhaps Vermilion City, and Sapporo, which may be Jubilife, so it isn't inconceivable that, since the Ainu once lived in northern to central Honshu, there was prolly influence from their culture somewhere in old Japan. This is reflected in the Sinjoh ruins: ancient peoples from Sinnoh coming south into the areas north of Kanto/Johto, and making a temple to Arceus. For something like the Sinjoh ruins to be in a Gen 6 game, the two regions would have to be close enough together for the cultures to influence one another significantly, meaning it would have to be in the New England area.
That said, the Sinjoh Ruins was a temple dedicated to Arceus, Dialga, Palkia and (oddly) Giratina, who were worshiped as gods by the ancient people of Sinnoh. OD was not worshiped in this way, to my knowledge, so the likelihood of a temple dedicated to it is unlikely.
I also doubt that, since Gamefreak didn't use Kyurem as a 'gateway' for Resh/Zek to be 'reborn' as the OD in B/W2, means that they won't in the future, unless my theory about a 3DS release of this Gen's 'third version' which combines the plots of the other two games is actually right (which is unlikely). An event that combines three Legendary Pokemon into a single Super-Pokemon seems to me like it'd be the focus of an entire game, and Gen 6 will have it's own story, with its own trio of Legendaries, which will inevitably get exploited by some evil organization for some nefarious task, only to be stopped/befriended by a 10-year-old. I think the story of the Original Dragon is fascinating enough to have its own game dedicated to it (which IMO is what B/W2 should have been), but Gamefreak is likely done with the Isshu region for now, and will just move on to the next one.
Even if there were a place like the Sinjoh Ruins in Gen 6, it'd be like the Sinjoh Ruins, and by that I mean that it'd be an interesting side-show attraction to get a special Pokemon, but ultimately have nothing to do with the story.
As for the DNA Link Pin or whatever its called, it wouldn't surprise me if GF would do something like that - pop up some kind of convenient deus-ex-machina for combining the three of them after stating how unique the original DNA Link Pin was - just like how all of a sudden Ghetsis had the Creation Trio's orbs. It reminds me of the part in "Invader Zim does DBZ" where it says "we need to go someplace that's completely desolate, that would never be in real life at all, that's huge - like a bajillion miles wide - that's nowhere to be found on earth, but it's right over there". In all, I think Gamefreak dropped the ball with B/W2 in a lot of ways... but we're talking about the OD, aren't we...?
Anyway, yeah. It's far from inconceivable to think that OD won't be in Gen 6, perhaps through a Sinjoh Ruins-esque location, but that still would means that OD got Regigigas'd.

I think we're agreeing if I interpreted your post correctly. Like you said, New England is a possibility, for a new region, maybe even somewhere else in the US. I know California to NY is a lot bigger than the distance between real life Johto and real life Sinnoh, but it's still the same country so would be likely to share some culture, which I think as a Brit, they do, maybe an American would see the culture as completely different I don't know, but to an outsider, Ca and Ny doesn't seem to have a big difference in culture.

I agree with it being like Sinjoh ruins, as a side show, now that in Canon the player from BW has 1 dragon, and the player from BW2 has the other 1(2) (don't know if Kyurem is captured in canon or not as not played the game please don't spoil for me) I don't think it will be featured as a main story, I think it would be something unlockable. Arceus was seen as a God but wasn't really featured at all in the game outside of the special event, a creator was mentioned, and that was it. I think if the OD or Perfect Kyurem were to appear, it would be an event, maybe like you go somewhere where an expert/champion (Iris?) would tell you a bit of the legend from Unova, and through some event you get an item like the dna pin gene wedge thing, but that does both dragons.

Originally Posted by Therian

I think we're agreeing if I interpreted your post correctly. Like you said, New England is a possibility, for a new region, maybe even somewhere else in the US. I know California to NY is a lot bigger than the distance between real life Johto and real life Sinnoh, but it's still the same country so would be likely to share some culture, which I think as a Brit, they do, maybe an American would see the culture as completely different I don't know, but to an outsider, Ca and Ny doesn't seem to have a big difference in culture.

I agree with it being like Sinjoh ruins, as a side show, now that in Canon the player from BW has 1 dragon, and the player from BW2 has the other 1(2) (don't know if Kyurem is captured in canon or not as not played the game please don't spoil for me) I don't think it will be featured as a main story, I think it would be something unlockable. Arceus was seen as a God but wasn't really featured at all in the game outside of the special event, a creator was mentioned, and that was it. I think if the OD or Perfect Kyurem were to appear, it would be an event, maybe like you go somewhere where an expert/champion (Iris?) would tell you a bit of the legend from Unova, and through some event you get an item like the dna pin gene wedge thing, but that does both dragons.

You did get what I meant, exactly.
I personally am from Seattle, but have lived in CA for... Well, too damn long, but I digress. My wife is from NY, and according to her CA isn't anything like the culture of NY (as, in her opinion, CA doesn't HAVE culture). Given this scenario, the 'Sinjoh Ruins' for the USA would be in... Kansas? Maybe if it were that way, the OD could have a tornado-oriented theme, or something. (Superman's 'from' Kansas, too.)
Then again, if the Pokemon World is not a reflection of ours (as Serebii's PokeEarth, the few times we've seen the globe in the movies/show, and this suggest), the region next to Isshu could be based on Singapore, and still be next to it. I don't think this is the case, based on the general locales of Kanto, Johto, ETC., but who knows?
Regardless of these ruins' location, I just don't want to see what I think would be an extremely cool, story-rich legendary Pokemon get the shaft by being dumped at random into a new game, just for the point of being there. As an aspiring author, the notion of them doing that makes me mad.

As other have probably already stated, I don't believe Arceus to be the OD. In the fact, the OD currently doesn't exist as it only exists we Kyurem, Reshiram, and Zerkrom combine. Kyurem is just a hollow shell of what originally was the OD. Indicated, by its asymmetrical design and how it needs to absorb either Reshiram or Zekrom to fill more complete. Additionally, the asymmetrical design carries over when it becomes either White or Black Kyurem.

I think it would have been awesome. if somehow they'd create a third version of B2W2, part of story will be to merge all 3 like how they were before the brothers fought. That is, if Game Freak will go and stand by the theory of Kyurem being the 'leftover' of Reshiram and Zekrom's separation.

Originally Posted by Geo Prime

That is, if Game Freak will go and stand by the theory of Kyurem being the 'leftover' of Reshiram and Zekrom's separation.

Just to let you know, it isn't a theory any longer. It was confirmed by Drayden in B2W2.

Originally Posted by Scarftail

Originally Posted by Geo Prime

That is, if Game Freak will go and stand by the theory of Kyurem being the 'leftover' of Reshiram and Zekrom's separation.

Just to let you know, it isn't a theory any longer. It was confirmed by Drayden in B2W2.

Fantastic! (lol too much for someone who doesn't own a B2/W2 game)

Ok then! :) that's good news! now I really do hope Gamefreak will use that fact for a future Gen V. game. it'll be a blast to see the original Dragon before the war.