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  1. #16
    Get Wild Rainbow's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Overhaul Is Suitable

    I'd say type chart overhaul. I guess a new type would be nice, but I can't think of anything. Only type people seem to think of is Light, which is kind redundant to me, but eh. I want a type chart overhaul though because one thing that annoys me is poison does nothing against steel. Now if that was anything like acid on metal, it'd be super effective. But that's just my opinion.

  2. #17
    zzz YamiiDenryuu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Overhaul Is Suitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghetsis-Dennis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wishmaker Jirachi View Post
    You know, I just realised, if they removed moves like Ice Beam from the reportoire of Pokémon from previous Generations for them to learn, they just need to learn it in a previous Generation and bam, instant Ice Beam. It's especially easy to do this in Generation V so this is pointless if a previous Generation can allow them to learn those moves before a transfer to the newer Generation.
    There is the idea of Gen V games being incompactible to Gen VI games ala GBA days to prevent such a thing (as well as giving an excuse for a R/S/E remake).
    ... I'm pretty sure the shitstorms that would cause would be nowhere near worth it. Cutting off past gen compatibility just to get one move out of a few movesets is complete overkill.

  3. #18
    Your resident cynic. Wishmaker Jirachi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Overhaul Is Suitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghetsis-Dennis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wishmaker Jirachi View Post
    You know, I just realised, if they removed moves like Ice Beam from the reportoire of Pokémon from previous Generations for them to learn, they just need to learn it in a previous Generation and bam, instant Ice Beam. It's especially easy to do this in Generation V so this is pointless if a previous Generation can allow them to learn those moves before a transfer to the newer Generation.
    There is the idea of Gen V games being incompactible to Gen VI games ala GBA days to prevent such a thing (as well as giving an excuse for a R/S/E remake).
    Watch as the fans go rabid from what you just said. They'll be pointing out that the 3DS is perfectly capable of connecting with previous DS systems (like the DSi to 3DS transfer).
    ...of course, it may just be me at the moment but such a thing would anger the fanbase to make Generation VI the worst Generation of all time next to Generation III in their eyes.

    There's why that idea doesn't work...I should also point out it removes something that a Pokémon should be able to logically learn (and that has been able to learn for so many years now).

    Edit: Before you get into Flare Blitz, that's a case (reversed given that we were talking about removing moves from Pokémon rather than adding them) of people who want Flareon to have it just because of the name and purpose. Sure, it could very well use it, but it seems Game Freak disagrees with it being capable of using its power. Might be attributed to the factors of energy/strength/size of the Pokémon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rainbow View Post
    I'd say type chart overhaul. I guess a new type would be nice, but I can't think of anything. Only type people seem to think of is Light, which is kind redundant to me, but eh. I want a type chart overhaul though because one thing that annoys me is poison does nothing against steel. Now if that was anything like acid on metal, it'd be super effective. But that's just my opinion.
    I'm guessing it's because most forms of poison are completely resisted by certain types of metal. I guess we need to do the research on this to see what metals are resistant to corrosion from acid...though I assume they aren't.
    However, what acid does is some form of corrosion that causes rust, which is a slow form of burning. So it's not so much poison itself attacking the metal, which doesn't happen, it's that acid is some form of burning. Still, Pokémon logic.
    ...I admit that I don't remember my Chemistry lessons, so feel free to correct me on this.
    Last edited by Wishmaker Jirachi; 23rd September 2012 at 10:20 PM.
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  4. #19
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    Default Re: Which Overhaul Is Suitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Wishmaker Jirachi View Post
    Watch as the fans go rabid from what you just said. They'll be pointing out that the 3DS is perfectly capable of connecting with previous DS systems (like the DSi to 3DS transfer).
    ...of course, it may just be me at the moment but such a thing would anger the fanbase to make Generation VI the worst Generation of all time next to Generation III in their eyes.
    I thought Gen V was the worst Generation of all time next to Gen III? Seriously, l've seen a lot of criticism for its content from here and 4chan.

    There's why that idea doesn't work...I should also point out it removes something that a Pokémon should be able to logically learn (and that has been able to learn for so many years now).
    But it's the only way to have the base stat/movepool overhaul to work. Part of the reason why you couldn't transfer your Pokemon from Gen II to Gen III is because of the EVs/IVs overhaul mechanic, which had a different function in the first two gens.

    Edit: Before you get into Flare Blitz, that's a case (reversed given that we were talking about removing moves from Pokémon rather than adding them) of people who want Flareon to have it just because of the name and purpose. Sure, it could very well use it, but it seems Game Freak disagrees with it being capable of using its power. Might be attributed to the factors of energy/strength/size of the Pokémon.
    Larvesta would like a word with you.

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Which Overhaul Is Suitable

    Um, no to all of those. All of those seem very unnecessary. :/

  6. #21
    Your resident cynic. Wishmaker Jirachi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Overhaul Is Suitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghetsis-Dennis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Wishmaker Jirachi View Post
    Watch as the fans go rabid from what you just said. They'll be pointing out that the 3DS is perfectly capable of connecting with previous DS systems (like the DSi to 3DS transfer).
    ...of course, it may just be me at the moment but such a thing would anger the fanbase to make Generation VI the worst Generation of all time next to Generation III in their eyes.
    I thought Gen V was the worst Generation of all time next to Gen III? Seriously, l've seen a lot of criticism for its content from here and 4chan.
    Elsewhere, there are very vocal complaints about Generation III (mainly because of the ones hailing for remakes). I haven't seen so much complaints about Generation V, but I've seen them...it just doesn't seem to glare out as much as Generation III's hate does, though - perhaps just because of the subject of those wanting remakes of the games not keeping their mouths shut for a few seconds comes to mind. That, and it was the first Generation to receive this kind of hate (originally before FRLG came along).

    There's why that idea doesn't work...I should also point out it removes something that a Pokémon should be able to logically learn (and that has been able to learn for so many years now).
    But it's the only way to have the base stat/movepool overhaul to work. Part of the reason why you couldn't transfer your Pokemon from Gen II to Gen III is because of the EVs/IVs overhaul mechanic, which had a different function in the first two gens.
    You dare defy fate? /junkazama
    In all seriousness, that's Game Freak's decision, and we can't just cut it off after three generations of not having this happen! How the hell would we get our previous Generation Pokémon this time? It'll be a similar case to the backlash received from Generation III if that happens, that's all I'm saying. I doubt Game Freak wants that to happen again, and a good amount of fans wouldn't like it either.

    Edit: Before you get into Flare Blitz, that's a case (reversed given that we were talking about removing moves from Pokémon rather than adding them) of people who want Flareon to have it just because of the name and purpose. Sure, it could very well use it, but it seems Game Freak disagrees with it being capable of using its power. Might be attributed to the factors of energy/strength/size of the Pokémon.
    Larvesta would like a word with you.
    A Level 100 Larvesta...wouldn't levels count towards a Pokémon's strength as well? Though once that's put into perspective, technically Flareon should be able to do so as well. But that's not our decision, that's Game Freak's.
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  7. #22
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    Default Re: Which Overhaul Is Suitable

    If GF were to obsolete past generations they'd have some work squeezing all of them in at a short period of time, that is 649 pokémon, feasible but ugly. I'd rather (for example) the likes of Rattata and select % water pokémon become incompatible with Ice Beam and lose the move on transfer.

    People arguing for acid being effective on steel doesn't take into account that acid is really really effective on everything.
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  8. #23
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    Default Re: Which Overhaul Is Suitable

    For one, BST changes are not a very good way to go to "change" the metagame for the better. Some pokémon are better than others, that's life, and besides, that's the way it should be any way.

    Movepool changes happen naturally, but I don't see why a type like Water should be denied a move like Ice Beam when it suits them to have it. There's no actually good reason to remove it, certainly not as a TM.

    Adding new types... for those of you who would like a Light type I say: You and every 12 year old out there. It's a shitty idea, that's just it, especially when the role of the type is already filled. Oh, and of course the people who want to buff poison offensively by adding SEs like Water (lol), that always cracks me up.


    I don't really see any major battle overhauls coming next gen. I think the system is pretty okay for the time being, I have far bigger concerns that can't be fixed by overhauling the battle system (mostly related to overworld features).

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Which Overhaul Is Suitable

    Quote Originally Posted by H-con View Post
    For one, BST changes are not a very good way to go to "change" the metagame for the better. Some pokémon are better than others, that's life, and besides, that's the way it should be any way.
    Not true. In fighting games, characters can be buffed/nerfed within a sequel or an updated re-release, as well as patching, and with the 3DS, it may be possible to patch some Pokemon via updates if it's too weak or too strong.

    Movepool changes happen naturally, but I don't see why a type like Water should be denied a move like Ice Beam when it suits them to have it. There's no actually good reason to remove it, certainly not as a TM.
    Oh, and of course the people who want to buff poison offensively by adding SEs like Water (lol), that always cracks me up.
    I smell a form of biasm. You need to understand that Water types are completely broken in the core gameplay with Drizzle + Swift Swim and being capable of eliminating one of their weaknesses (most Grass types lack Rock/Ground moves, and Fire types can't abuse Electric moves and Solarbeam - for their glass cannon status). As what Inifity MK stated, most Water types shouldn't be able to learn Ice moves.

  10. #25
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    Default Re: Which Overhaul Is Suitable

    @Ghetsis-Dennis; While it might be true that water is overpowered, GF doesn't make the games with the meta game in mind, most likely. And most of your changes have to do with the meta game. Also, your example about fighting games don't really apply. In the fighting genre the characters may return to the next generation of the games but it is not the same character. Pokemon can be transfered cross-generationally, even if it is only a one way trip. So you can have the same Charizard you had in FR battling with you in White 2.

  11. #26
    Registered User Lord Clowncrete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Overhaul Is Suitable

    Rather than change in mechanics, I want a change in gameplay. I want the ability to customize my character starting from his age to ethnicity. Even if there is no character customization feature, I would appreciate a variety of templates to choose from. I want better story lines, anime-style Poke-cries instead of the screeches we have right now, 3d graphics,etc,etc.

    Having Gen 6 incompatible to Gen 5 is bad idea. I can see more fans getting angry with it than happy with it.

    I see no reason for the changes in the mechanics. Most battlers are simply gonna adapt and still use mons based on their usefulness, instead of biases.
    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
    @Pikmin1211; Pokemon Online has options for all but rotation battles. None of those you listed are competitive metagames though except Cresselia championships... I mean VGC.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: Which Overhaul Is Suitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    @Ghetsis-Dennis; While it might be true that water is overpowered, GF doesn't make the games with the meta game in mind, most likely. And most of your changes have to do with the meta game. Also, your example about fighting games don't really apply. In the fighting genre the characters may return to the next generation of the games but it is not the same character. Pokemon can be transfered cross-generationally, even if it is only a one way trip. So you can have the same Charizard you had in FR battling with you in White 2.
    Which is why I thought of an idea of restricting Pokemon who learn moves that they can't learn when transferring them to Gen VI games, just like how held items aren't allowed when transferring Pokemon from Gen IV to Gen V due to the resusable TMs.

  13. #28
    Registered User Lord Clowncrete's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Overhaul Is Suitable

    Regarding the ice beam on water types thing, most water types:
    1) invest in defenses and thus have low offenses and do piddly amounts to bulky grass types.
    2) are used as support mons and thus often have no room for ice beam. For example, vaporeon has no room for ice beam after putting in wish, protect, roar/toxic and scald.

    Inspite of the ice weakness, most grass types like Venusaur, Celebi, Ferrothorn, etc. still make great switch-ins for water types. Most are not even ko'ed by ice beam and can easily demolish the water type with giga drain, leaf storm, etc.

    Dragons are far more deadlier than water types, imo. And statements like "dragons are virtually indestructible" make me feel that they are meant to be so. I don't really want a change but if there should be a change, it should be on dragon types.
    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
    @Pikmin1211; Pokemon Online has options for all but rotation battles. None of those you listed are competitive metagames though except Cresselia championships... I mean VGC.

  14. #29
    Master of Ghosts......... Gengarzilla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which Overhaul Is Suitable

    Removing Ice Beam from the movelists of most Water types? That is a very bad idea. I don't even need to explain how much that would damage the franchise...

    Ice is frozen Water, so it's only logical that Water types should be able to use Ice type moves and vice versa.

    As for my ideas, I think the Poison type needs some more love. Make it super effective against Bug again and against Water because of pollution. Acid and Acid Spray should also ignore the Steel types immunity to Poison. Bad Poison needs to be more available too.

    No Ice Beam for Water types... By any chance, did your Dragonite/Salamence/Garchomp get OHKO'ed by a Starmie at one point?
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    Default Re: Which Overhaul Is Suitable

    Quote Originally Posted by Gengarzilla View Post
    Removing Ice Beam from the movelists of most Water types? That is a very bad idea. I don't even need to explain how much that would damage the franchise...

    Ice is frozen Water, so it's only logical that Water types should be able to use Ice type moves and vice versa.


    But it's the main reason why Ice type Pokemon are rarely seen in battles, because Water types outclass them. Removing Ice Beam helps the poor type at their advantage.

    As for my ideas, I think the Poison type needs some more love. Make it super effective against Bug again and against Water because of pollution. Acid and Acid Spray should also ignore the Steel types immunity to Poison. Bad Poison needs to be more available too.
    What about removing Toxic from every Pokemon's movepool except for Poison types? One of the main reasons for their uselessness was because everyone and their mother learned Toxic via TM.

    No Ice Beam for Water types... By any chance, did your Dragonite/Salamence/Garchomp get OHKO'ed by a Starmie at one point?
    No, I was using a Hydreigon, but it, as well as two other selected Pokemon, were effortlessly killed by one at Random Matchups.

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