The N Thread

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Thread: The N Thread

  1. #1
    Who am I? Joshawott's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default The N Thread

    Okay, so the Europeans have had some time to play this game and witness the story unfold, while the Americans have just got the chance to, and some might know already. When I have an encounter with N, I can't kelp but feel like what he is saying is right. Especially, when I think that the "bond" between a trainer and Pokémon could possibly be Stockholm Syndrome. For those who don't like to click links:

    In psychology, Stockholm syndrome is a term used to describe a paradoxical psychological phenomenon wherein hostages express adulation and have positive feelings towards their captors that appear irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, essentially mistaking a lack of abuse from their captors as an act of kindness
    The bolded phrase really seems to scream "Pokémon Battles!" to me.

    Obviously, "Team Plasma" as a whole is not right, as they abduct trainer's Pokémon
    . However, N as an individual has definitely become Pokemon's most interesting villain, because there are quite a few people I have spoken to who agree to him (although not on the same level).

    What do you think? Do Pokémon develop Stockholm Syndrome, thus becoming attached to their trainers, and is N's philosophy right?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Is N Right?

    Well, so long as the Pokemon were stolen from someone else, it's okay. Pokemon are wild creatures that we tame and so long as they enjoy battling and so long as we treat them fairly, I think it's okay.

  3. #3
    Back From The Grave Charbok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is N Right?

    I do kind of agree with N but at the same time if the pokemon is happy battling and being with their trainer then that's fine. I don't think forcefully trying to separate humans and pokemon is a good thing but I do want the pokemon to have the same freedom as humans do.

    Look Forward, Team Rocket!

    Also I claim Piplup in the Claim a Pokemon thread =)

  4. #4
    Registered User Usagi-Zakura's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is N Right?

    Yeah he has a good point. Pokèmon is FULL of stuff that would have been considered animal abuse on earth:
    - Gathering/Hoarding several hundred creatures you can't possibly care for.
    - Keeping them trapped in tiny balls for the most part (or in the PC..)
    - Forcing them to fight each other and causing them severe injuries.
    - Catching wild animals for your own use and thus separating them from their packs and family. (What if the Pokèmon had a child who is now effectively orphan?)
    - Though even releasing them can be risky...if you do this:


    In Norway at least you could risk heavy fines for doing all of the above. (Hoarding in itself isn't illegal, not caring for your animals is.)

  5. #5
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is N Right?

    All I can say is, its too bad that BW didn't really touch on the issue of abusive trainers that much to make you sway your opinion (but ultimately choose to fight to keep them together since that's what the plot calls for). It's not like the other Pokémon media haven't done this before.

    Also, we don't need to go comparing this to hostage situations; all we need to look at is relational abuse. Even humans stay with partners, justifying that they still love them despite hurting them. Then there's the fact that these are intelligent creatures, if they are anything like us, they could experience cognitive dissonance. Perhaps they don't like to battle, but they do anyway because the trainer tells it to. How does it rationalize the dissonance between its attitude and actions? They can change what they think and make themselves believe that they battle because they love their trainers. The situation is a powerful thing, yeah, the Pokemon could choose to not battle, but when its thrown into the battle field with a Pokémon who is willing to, what are you going to do? Not battle and get hurt? Sure, you could disobey your trainer and battle the way you want, but chances are the trainer knows what he's talking about while you may have never encountered the Pokémon you are battling, thus will obey because of the trainer's expertise that will not only help you win, but avoid as much injury as possible. Normative social influence comes into play as well, as the Pokémon will likely be with that trainer and five other Pokémon that have been socialized to enjoy battling, and may battle when they don't want to just to be liked. Anyone who's been in any form of school would recognize this as peer pressure. Of course, this is for those that may not want to battle, there's always the Pokémon that genuinely enjoy it.

    An in-canon example of Pokémon that would clearly be better separated from its trainer is Cyrus, yet he has a Crobat. People say that he may have stolen it from another trainer, but here's the thing guys, Pokémon like Crobat only need to love its trainer to evolve, the trainer doesn't have to love it back, and Cyrus' minions would literally follow him to the end of the universe.
    Last edited by The Outrage; 6th March 2011 at 11:22 AM.

  6. #6
    Steel Pokémon Master Bulletproof Scales's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is N Right?

    There's simply a lack of interaction with the pokémon in the games.
    They tend to focus on the parts where you beat some poor animal, trap it in a device to only let it see the light of day when it's getting mauled and burnt til the injuries make it lose consciousness.
    That's not really all that's going on.

    It may look like N has it all figured out, but the anime contradicts that view perfectly.
    Det ligger tomhylsor i parken
    Våra fötter är en meter över marken

  7. #7
    Fairy Queen Kaori's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Is N Right?

    I have to admit, for me it's more the fact that there's finally a storyline and villain making us truly question everything we know that's creeping me out a little, not what he's saying itself. I know for myself I almost feel bad making my Pokemon battle now, though - surely we are just capturing them and making them hurt others and themselves for our own goals? ='D Even so, while I do think there will be some that enjoy battling (especially those species mentioned to regularly spar with each other), I can't help but think it is cruel - sure, there is more interaction, but if you care about something, why would you force it to fight 'til it passed out, all for your competitive benefit either way, and why would you want to see it getting hurt? O___o



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  8. #8
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is N Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulletproof Scales View Post

    It may look like N has it all figured out, but the anime contradicts that view perfectly.
    Yet at the same time provides better evidence for his side than the game does.

  9. #9
    My little Pwny! Mr.Munchlax's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is N Right?

    I am always right. Always will be.

    VICTORRRRRRRRYYYYYYY!!!


    Thank to Arkeis.com for the awesome sprites!

  10. #10
    Gen IV + V RNGer istore's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is N Right?

    I only heard him preach in the second city (drawing a blank on the name of it) and I actually found myself agreeing to what he was saying but I guess the protagonist in the game disagrees so we'll just have to destroy him and Team Plasma regardless ^_~

    Retired RNGer. May pick up again in the future.
    What

  11. #11
    Bulbapædist Zeta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is N Right?

    N's only right because the interaction between Pokemon and humans is kept so simplistic you can only use them as machines.

    In theory, you should be able to play with them, praise them, treat them well, and interact with them.

    But GameFreak didn't want to do the work of keeping or expanding on the Walking Pokemon system from HeartGold and SoulSilver.

    In effect, N is right because GameFreak is too lazy to include new features in their games, or keep their games consistent.
    Up the airy mountains / Down the rushy Glen /
    We dare not go a-hunting / For fear of Fairy-type Pokémon

  12. #12
    Pokémon Capture Expert paperfairy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is N Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zeta View Post
    In effect, N is right because GameFreak is too lazy to include new features in their games, or keep their games consistent.
    qft

    don't like something? fix it. stop complaining about it.

  13. #13
    Pokemon Trainer/breeder captainpost's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is N Right?

    Well if he is right about pokemon. then he would also be right about humans and dogs in the real world. we breed them put them on a leash and tell them what to do. is that wrong? makes ya think
    3DS Code: 0001-4606-5590
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  14. #14
    Slenderman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is N Right?

    I enjoy watching pokemon kill each other for money.
    I don't always resist, but when I do, it's with The Resistance. Stay resistant, my friends.
    Quote Originally Posted by Iron Defense
    After all, what is a Resistance member if he doesn't resist?

  15. #15
    Fairy Queen Kaori's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Is N Right?

    Quote Originally Posted by captainpost View Post
    Well if he is right about pokemon. then he would also be right about humans and dogs in the real world. we breed them put them on a leash and tell them what to do. is that wrong? makes ya think
    Except most people don't make their pets fight for money and status/badges/etc?



    [12:40:02 AM] Karamazov: I call Kaori the chick who could crush me under her tits
    ~ Proud Head of Entertainment, Inc. ~ Fanclub ~ Come join the conversation in the Entertainment, Inc. General Chat Thread!~

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