Thread: If you worked for GF...

Originally Posted by Kree

@Saiga;

Make the E4 the final challenge in the games rather and having what would be post game content before them.

So there's literally nothing to do after the E4?

That sounds like a horrid idea.

I think he just means that he wants the stuff that would otherwise be relegated to post-game to be available pre-E4. Same amount of content, just available earlier. But don't quote me on that.

I think he just means that he wants the stuff that would otherwise be relegated to post-game to be available pre-E4.

I'm pretty sure that he said that he wanted the E4 to be the final challenge in the game.

While I can understand that he wants you to have a sense of finality after beating the E4, that is a terrible idea because it detracts severely from the game's replayability value.

Originally Posted by voicerocker

Perhaps, but keeping things EXACTLY the same is bad business, especially in video game development. Pokemon has managed to be successful without the use of complex gameplay, high quality graphics or increadibly complex storylines. The games have been, and still are pretty simple to figure out, which is part of their appeal. But the suggestions you've made would destroy the franchise.

I think that they key point is that concerns for "bad business" are almost always going to trump community demands, especially when they come from a small sector of the community. Doesn't mean that I can't express discontent, does it? They might destroy them for you, they might (in all practicality) make the franchise economically non-viable, but for me, they would represent a huge improvement.

Originally Posted by voicerocker

If your overall view of an entire Generation of Pokemon is that they are "awful", I don't see how you could prefer anything before that. You'll have to explain what exactly made Gen 5 so bad that the other Gens did not have as well.

I did admit that there are some perfectly good Pokémon - a decent few, in fact - introduced in the latest Generation. That isn't the bulk of my dissatisfaction. Those things I mentioned are, on their own, unacceptable to me, and since Generation V contains many of those things (and introduced a good number, too), it seems natural that I would be less than pleased with it. So, as I tried to outline earlier, many of my individual concerns are behind my dislike for Gen

Originally Posted by voicerocker

More strategy in a strategy game is bad? Take Electross. Ground Pokemon are super effective against Electrics, but Electross has Levitate, so Ground moves won't work on it. Gotta find another way to beat it. After 17 years, keeping the battle system the same as it was without abilities makes the battles far less interesting.

To my mind, they're (J)RPGs, not strategy games. I'm even ready to accept that some Abilities are pretty cool and give character to Pokémon that might otherwise lack it - your example, as well as Shedinja's Wonder Guard, or Slaking's Truant, come to mind. But there doesn't seem a reason to give Abilities to every single Pokémon in the game. It adds "strategy", but more often than not, it seems to be adding unnecessary and flavourless strategy. Perhaps Abilities as a non-universal feature, balanced by stats where necessary, would be a good idea.

Originally Posted by voicerocker

Defeats the purpose. These Pokemon are meant to be traded. You may not like needing someone else to get certain Pokemon, but this is the main focus of the games: interaction with other players. It's part of the overall appeal of Pokemon as a whole, it encourages teamwork.

Not everybody enjoys the games for the same reasons. I could probably find a few quotes from staff that call-into-question your statement about what is "the main focus of the games", but suffice to say that even if you see it that way, and even if the developers saw it that way, it isn't why I have ever played them.

Originally Posted by voicerocker

Pokemon still has simple graphics. I've also never heard anyone say that the 3D designs made them feel ill before. I've only heard that the 3DS 3D feature can hurt your eyes if you stare at it long enough, but Black and White are not in full 3D.

Still simple, yes. No longer making use of that simplicity to positive effect, however. To my eyes the recent changes have been an attempt to obscure the simplicity behind other things. Regarding illness, perhaps it's not a common issue (I suffered from motion-sickness as a child, so there's one possible explanation) - I can say, though, that this made it very difficult for me to enjoy BW.

Originally Posted by voicerocker

Again, I've never heard someone say the sprites hurt their eyes or made them ill. Besides, if the intent was to make them appear more alive, including an option to turn them off would defeat the purpose.

Addressed above. And I don't really see why they couldn't include an option for those who want it - it's not like they'd need new art assets for it.

Originally Posted by voicerocker

You're not supposed to speed through the dialogue, otherwise we may as well be playing Red, Blue, Green and Yellow as they lacked any real plot. If they changed this to encourage people to actually follow the story, I support it.

I actually preferred the absence of "real plot" to the presence of "real plot" which was uninspired and (in my opinion) pretty bloody uninteresting. If they want people to follow the story, they need to make it an interesting one.

On a side note, there was way too much on-rails content (like dialogue) involved in the plot - the principle of "show, don't tell" seems to have been pretty badly neglected.

Originally Posted by voicerocker

No reason for this. More new gamers get into Pokemon than older gamers return. The kids are the target audience, so they include this to teach them the basics. Besides, it doesn't take that long to sit through it, and once you do, you're done with it.

The grumpy old man inside of me want to say that "new gamers" and "kids" are the problem. Sometimes, by the way, even once you do sit through it, you're not done with it.

Originally Posted by voicerocker

Another case of taking the strategy out of a strategy game. The games aren't so complicated that they need to be simplified even more than they already are.

I'll admit that this is an afterthought and that there is some merit in the split. My complaint, however, is not about an excess of complexity, but rather a lack of elegance.

Originally Posted by voicerocker

I see nothing good about reversing the progress the games have made. They have changed very little since Red and Green, but the changes they've made have managed to keep the games close enough to the originals for anyone who's been around for a while to still enjoy, while bringing in fresh ideas and fresh takes on existing features. My first game was Yellow, and playing it now is great for nostalgia, but I'd much rather battle someone in Gen 5 than in any other Gen.

It's good for you that you've been able to enjoy the direction in which the series has moved, then. I wouldn't, myself, call everything "progress" - perhaps "getting sidetracked" or "changing course" would better describe my perception of things.

In any case it seems that I have not much reason to be hopeful.

Disregard the Machia's ideas. Sorry, but it wouldn't help them out to basically tear out a majority of the games extra features. Abilities are useful, even ones not used in battle. Like Pickup. Useful whenever you don't have money to buy things at a pokemart. Sturdy-If it's a nuzlocke, this helps alot, it means the difference between the pokemon dieing from a one hit KO and not. Would go on, but I won't.
I would also go on what's not very good with the other points of what you would want, but this thread isn't meant to be a discussion on what's right or wrong.

I really don't know what I would do...I guess I do actually.
The most obvious thing I would do though, would be to add a nuzlocke option, but that's an irresponsible thing to do. But yeah, have female protagonists dress like normal kids, not Daisy Duke (in the case of Hilda), introduce an optional different way of doing battles, a optional way of just having a league challenge without a crime syndicate trying to stop you for no good reason... and, that's all I have at the top of my head at the moment.

Originally Posted by ZB the Cotonee

Disregard the Machia's ideas. Sorry, but it wouldn't help them out to basically tear out a majority of the games extra features. Abilities are useful, even ones not used in battle. Like Pickup. Useful whenever you don't have money to buy things at a pokemart. Sturdy-If it's a nuzlocke, this helps alot, it means the difference between the pokemon dieing from a one hit KO and not. Would go on, but I won't.
I would also go on what's not very good with the other points of what you would want, but this thread isn't meant to be a discussion on what's right or wrong.

That doesn't sound much like disregarding. More like disagreeing. But you're allowed to do that, of course. Not changing my mind.

Originally Posted by Kree

I think he just means that he wants the stuff that would otherwise be relegated to post-game to be available pre-E4.

I'm pretty sure that he said that he wanted the E4 to be the final challenge in the game.

While I can understand that he wants you to have a sense of finality after beating the E4, that is a terrible idea because it detracts severely from the game's replayability value.

You must have missed that part. I said:

Make the E4 the final challenge in the games rather and having what would be post game content before them. They'd still be re-matchable, though.

A lot of the games have the E4 rematches as the final challenge anyway, so it'd be like that but without the first match. The E4 would be something you'd really have to train for using the post-game battles like re-matchable gym leaders.

Difficulty levels that aren't version exclusive and available at the start of the game. Me is so smart.

Originally Posted by Machiavelli+

Remove Abilities

Abilities have always felt unnecessary and annoying. I don't like them.

Just like in Gen I?

Go back to 2D-only, top-down graphics

I prefer the simplistic graphics to the new style, particularly the most recent games (it hurt my eyes and made me feel ill). Whereas with simple sprites and pixel art the games always had a unique character and internal consistency, the most recent generations feel as though they've lost this in an attempt to "update" things.

Just like in Gen I?

Remove all in-battle movement except for moves and the introduction of the battle

The new sprite animation also hurt my eyes and made me feel ill. At the very least there needs to be an option to disable this.

Just like in Gen I?

Bring back ALL-CAPS naming

ALL-CAPS is part personal preference. It did, however, make skim-reading dialogue easier.

Just like in Gen I?

Oh, I forgot one. We're reversing the physical/special split.

Just like in Gen I?

I actually preferred the absence of "real plot" to the presence of "real plot" which was uninspired and (in my opinion) pretty bloody uninteresting. If they want people to follow the story, they need to make it an interesting one.

Just like in Gen I?

Originally Posted by Grass Type Trainer

Originally Posted by Machiavelli+

Remove Abilities

Abilities have always felt unnecessary and annoying. I don't like them.

Just like in Gen I?

Or II...

Originally Posted by Grass Type Trainer

Go back to 2D-only, top-down graphics

I prefer the simplistic graphics to the new style, particularly the most recent games (it hurt my eyes and made me feel ill). Whereas with simple sprites and pixel art the games always had a unique character and internal consistency, the most recent generations feel as though they've lost this in an attempt to "update" things.

Just like in Gen I?

Or II or III...

Originally Posted by Grass Type Trainer

Remove all in-battle movement except for moves and the introduction of the battle

The new sprite animation also hurt my eyes and made me feel ill. At the very least there needs to be an option to disable this.

Just like in Gen I?

Or II or III or IV...

Originally Posted by Grass Type Trainer

Bring back ALL-CAPS naming

ALL-CAPS is part personal preference. It did, however, make skim-reading dialogue easier.

Just like in Gen I?

Or II or III...

Originally Posted by Grass Type Trainer

Oh, I forgot one. We're reversing the physical/special split.

Just like in Gen I?

Or II...

Originally Posted by Grass Type Trainer

I actually preferred the absence of "real plot" to the presence of "real plot" which was uninspired and (in my opinion) pretty bloody uninteresting. If they want people to follow the story, they need to make it an interesting one.

Just like in Gen I?

There's not been any legitimate "real plot" in any of the games. I'd just prefer that they didn't try to be story driven unless the story is actually any good.

What exactly is your problem?

I'd cut the kid bullshit and make the protagonists older, like Wes. Children want to be older, they think it's cool to be an adult, as they have more privileges.This could also appeal to the older audience as well.

Originally Posted by Signas

I'd cut the kid bullshit and make the protagonists older, like Wes. Children want to be older, they think it's cool to be an adult, as they have more privileges.This could also appeal to the older audience as well.

Wondering how you would explain an adult starting from scratch, and oblivious, in a setting where it has been pretty consistently stated that it is a rite of passage for young people to interact with Pokémon, and where NPCs, young and old, seem very much informed and concerned with Pokémon as a major part of their lives and society. It worked in Colosseum since you didn't need to choose low-level starters. Beginning with pre-determined starters is obviously no good, although it's conceivable that you could fudge dialogue so that, while you get a choice, it isn't recognised as a choice in-game, but rather a confirmation of pre-existing reality. Same explanation can be used for tutorials (think the catching tutorial from RSE). But then you still have the problem of why any trainer but a child would have such low-level Pokémon.

Originally Posted by Machiavelli+

Wondering how you would explain an adult starting from scratch, and oblivious, in a setting where it has been pretty consistently stated that it is a rite of passage for young people to interact with Pokémon, and where NPCs, young and old, seem very much informed and concerned with Pokémon as a major part of their lives and society. It worked in Colosseum since you didn't need to choose low-level starters. Beginning with pre-determined starters is obviously no good, although it's conceivable that you could fudge dialogue so that, while you get a choice, it isn't recognised as a choice in-game, but rather a confirmation of pre-existing reality. Same explanation can be used for tutorials (think the catching tutorial from RSE). But then you still have the problem of why any trainer but a child would have such low-level Pokémon.

The protagonist could have tried being a trainer as a kid, but it didn't really work out, and they did something like release all their Pokemon. Now, years later, they've decided they want to give it another shot and start over. A scenario like this could also offer some interesting NPC interactions.

Make the E4 the final challenge in the games rather and having what would be post game content before them. They'd still be re-matchable, though.

A lot of the games have the E4 rematches as the final challenge anyway, so it'd be like that but without the first match. The E4 would be something you'd really have to train for using the post-game battles like re-matchable gym leaders.

So basically make the E4 more challenging?

Well, I'd say that I like the concept. But I find the concept of having no content after the E4 somewhat limiting.

What exactly is your problem?

Our problem is that you seem to want to downgrade the sophistication of the gameplay mechanics, which is kind of a totally shitty idea.

I actually preferred the absence of "real plot" to the presence of "real plot" which was uninspired and (in my opinion) pretty bloody uninteresting.

This I can agree with.

Originally Posted by Kree

What exactly is your problem?

Our problem is that you seem to want to downgrade the sophistication of the gameplay mechanics, which is kind of a totally shitty idea.

Sorry, wasn't clear. I understand that some people disagree with me and like some of the features which I do not like, but what I meant was addressed specifically to Grass Type Trainer, because, from all appearances, that poster was trying to paint me as a slobbering GENWUNNER rather than somebody trying to merely present some opinions.

I would portray the dialogue of important characters (rivals, Gym Leaders, villains etc) in an anime-style visual-novel format. I would also consider voice acting, but if I did, it would be like in Tales of the Abyss and Persona 3, where only important story-related dialogue is voice acted (I'm not saying that I would absolutely put voice acting in, but I would look into the possibility. Of course, if I did it would also be optional and if possible, I'd like the Japanese language track to be made available internationally for those who'd want that).

Then I would overhaul the Global Trade Station, making it impossible to request Pokémon that are currently unobtainable (like lv.9 and under Reshiram etc. If one becomes available at a later date, then the system can be updated) and I'd introduce a tier system to restrict what players can request in exchange for a particular Pokémon. Wi-Fi battling needs to be updated as well. Although GameFreak did work to try and improve this with B2W2, I would like to see them implement measures that allow the system to identify which player disconnected and make it so that their rating stays the same (to account for accidental disconnects) while the rating of their opponent increases as if they had won. I would also utilise the Nintendo Network "Communities" (like seen in Mario Kart 7) to allow players to create groups for players. A new wireless and Wi-Fi option I would make is also the ability to set up a tournament (like the Battle Dome and World Tournament) for up to 8 players.

Then, I would make Challenge Mode available from the start. Having the option at the very beginning to play on Assist Mode, Normal Mode or Challenge Mode - with Challenge Mode skipping the tutorial bit (still having the story begin, but remove the rather tedious "This is how you catch a Pokémon!" stuff). The Gyms also need to be harder - even for normal mode. Also, I'm getting bored of them all having no more than three Pokémon; I want Gyms 4-8 to gradually increase their numbers and for each Elite 4 member to have 5/6 Pokémon. On Challenge Mode, I'd add in a rule that you can only use the same number of Pokémon as the Gym Leader/Elite 4 member you are facing. Also, the Elite 4 could do with a better AI.

New Mythical Pokémon would not be programmed into the games and would be added via SpotPass when officially announced. Also, the games would contain a patch that transferred data of DLC Pokémon to games that might not be connected to the internet, to allow for compatibility (such a feature is possible). I would still have special event distributions, but after a certain amount of time I would make Mythical Pokémon available on the Nintendo eShop for 90p a Pokémon (the average price for paid DLC); these variations would be "bare bones" (No fateful encounter tags, no special moves etc).

In terms of a region, I would like one based on Europe - with each different town/city based on a different country in the continent. This would also naturally mean a lot more Pokémon based on European myths and legends. If I was to design a new generation of Pokémon, I would also put a lot of emphasis on Grass, Ice, Poison and Dark-type Pokémon (like how Generation V gave Bug-type Pokémon a huge boost).

And lastly:
I. Would. Make. A. Dark. Type. Gym. Leader.