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  1. #106
    Registered User Riku's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hints in HGSS?

    Can anyone tell me how to find this reference to Professor Silktree? Also, in regards to a comment above about the Unown having more power in Movie 3 than in the game. The Unown clearly play a big part in creating Dialga, Palkia or Giratina.

    My theory is that although it says Arceus created this universe, it doesn't say he was the first in this universe. What if the Unown came from their universe using their powers and in fact it was they who created Arceus? Just an idea.

  2. #107
    Time Traveler Silktree's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hints in HGSS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Riku View Post
    What if the Unown came from their universe using their powers and in fact it was they who created Arceus? Just an idea.
    Veggietable will probably not like seeing that; he'd rather believe that such ideas can only be conceived by me, which is probably why he doesn't like the enthusiasm expressed in this thread. At any rate, we had a recent debate regarding this possibility.

  3. #108
    rewrites your life Soulweaver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hints in HGSS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Riku View Post
    Can anyone tell me how to find this reference to Professor Silktree?
    I assume by completing Unown Note, something that I have still under work.

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  4. #109
    Doc Octillery FTW VeggiePopper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hints in HGSS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unown Lord View Post
    And you think that Game Freak mentioned his name just for the sake of it? That seems unnecessary if someone else is filling his place. Professor Silktree is one of the select few cases where a scrapped character was restored in some way; there is probably a reason for that. But I digress, as he is obviously not the real mystery, although it is interesting to consider that the Unown might have made him disappear to prevent him from making a shocking discovery.
    Maybe it was restored for backstory reasons and nothing more? The last sentence though, while I disagree to it (have we ever known of any Pokémon doing harm to a human on purpose?), somehow enforces my original point of Silktree being a thing of the past and not the Gen V Professor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unown Lord View Post
    Really now? It would be great if more Pokémon could get interesting backstories (see Rotom), but not every concept can be given an intriguing context. The Unown were actually designed with the mythology in mind and little else, so I don't understand the complaint.
    Yes. Backstory for Pokémon (both the creatures and the world) is fine, but everything in the needed quantities. I don't want to go into an eternal backwards cycle like the one the Zelda series fell in. Personally, the Arceus myth being somehow confirmed in HGSS about who created the Universe closes the backstory needed for the Pokéverse. We now know where we come from. Now let's move on to the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unown Lord View Post
    God forbid should there be an element of ongoing mystery in the series. Again, not everything has to be clearly labeled to the point where the fans are spoon-fed by Game Freak what to think. I realize that the mysteries may never be solved because of this, but I'm hoping that ten years are at least long enough for more progress to be made.
    Agree. We don't need to be spoonfed (I for one don't want it). But until word of God confirms or denies anything, the rest is only speculation fanon, and the proof we got now is vague at much, let alone definitive. And if we're not given it... sorry dude, but we can't assume and state something for sure when it clearly isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unown Lord View Post
    How wonderfully convenient. Actually, HGSS removed some of the more pertinent references to Suicune and everything surrounding it (the Brass Tower story and the connection to Ho-Oh and Unown) due to the story climax dealing with Ho-Oh/Lugia instead. Since the Unown were not part of Crystal's story climax, the Ruins of Alph references have been left in tact (barring one line that explained that the panels on the walls had appeared as a result of the radio waves emitted by Goldenrod's PCC). In fact, more players are aware of the Crystal references now that they are recorded in the Unown Report.

    In HGSS' defense, the part with the beasts in the opening is clearly a reminder of Suicune's connection to the Unown, although it is certainly not as interesting as the Crystal opening. But what is more important is that the Unown are now connected to Arceus, as well, and their story is no longer limited to Johto (even the people who built the Ruins of Alph moved to another region). I really don't see where you are going with this.
    A remainder, yes. A downright fact, no. It stays in the intro, but it doesn't go deeper on that in-game, so we're still left with nothing that stands for sure. Where I was going? I AM going towards the fact that we know the Unown are related to the beasts (now that you mention it, the intro relates Unown to the beasts, not only to Suicune) and Arceus, but we're never told what this relationship consists of. Even their appearance in the Arceus event says little. We know that they're present, but we know nothing about what their actual role was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unown Lord View Post
    And why is this such a big deal to you? HGSS are the first games we've seen the Unown's collective powers emerge; I was personally more impressed by their ability to warp the player to the Sinjoh Ruins and their participation in the creation of Dialga/Palkia/Giratina's egg, than by what was seen in Movie 3. It is quite obvious that their portrayal in their movie was not misleading, even if it may not have been an accurate depiction.
    It was not a big deal per say, just a statement about the Movies irrelevance to the games canon, then you questioned it and I replied back with my explanation, so take it as an extra point rather than part of my main post. Thanks.


    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by Riku
    What if the Unown came from their universe using their powers and in fact it was they who created Arceus? Just an idea.
    They were present during the event where Arceus creates Dialga, Palkia or Giratina, which tells us... well, that they had some role with creating them at much. How can this mean they created Arceus? So going by that logic... the midwife that helped my mom give birth to me, just because she was there, it means she gave birth to my mom? There's no logic in that. Even if that was logicall at all, it's speculation at much, nothing's proven for sure, so any possible explanation has the same probability of being true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unown Lord
    Veggietable will probably not like seeing that; he'd rather believe that such ideas can only be conceived by me, which is probably why he doesn't like the enthusiasm expressed in this thread
    Not that I don't like it, just that I think it receives more attention than deserved when some things can be solved without the need of making such an uproar. But only time will tell.
    Last edited by VeggiePopper; 14th April 2010 at 02:38 PM.


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  5. #110
    Time Traveler Silktree's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hints in HGSS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Veggietable View Post
    Personally, the Arceus myth being somehow confirmed in HGSS about who created the Universe closes the backstory needed for the Pokéverse. We now know where we come from. Now let's move on to the future.
    The HGSS event might have proved that Arceus indeed had the power to create the Dragon trio (although apparently not by itself), but it only added more questions about the Unown. Also of note is that Cynthia refers to Arceus as having the shaped the world (by creating the Dragon trio to govern over time, space and antimatter); she avoids making comments about the validity of the myth that it is truly the origin of everything in the universe.

    Why is it that you were recently in favor of expanding on Sinnoh's mythology, only to change your mind when you realized that it would probably entail more focus on the Unown?

  6. #111
    Doc Octillery FTW VeggiePopper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hints in HGSS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unown Lord View Post
    The HGSS event might have proved that Arceus indeed had the power to create the Dragon trio, but it only added more questions about the Unown. Also note that Cynthia refers to Arceus as having the shaped the world (by creating the Dragon trio to govern over time, space and antimatter); she avoids making comments about the validity of the myth that it is truly the origin of everything.

    Why is it that you were recently in favor of expanding Sinnoh's mythology, only to change your mind when I brought up the Arceus-Unown connection?
    Yes, it added more quiestions to the Unown. One of them if "what was their EXACT role in the Arceus event?", thus I'm waiting for an answer to that question, only that I want a true answer (that is, one that is given or confirmed by GF themselves), not a fanmade one which goes as far as to say they were the ones who created the Universe, and I expect GF to solve the questions; I will speculate about, but I won't take that speculation as facts, which is the mistake most people here (sometimes I get the impression that that includes you, please tell me I'm wrong) make. You see, I need CANON, not fanon.

    And that also answers your question at the end. I'm indeed in favor of expanding Sinnoh's mythology to the degree it is possible, but only GF can expand it, not us. That and, as I've stated ad nauseam, I don't see why Unown must be in everything that includes legends. Don't want to be rude, but Unown is not the focus of the series. There are other 492 Pokémon (plus the ones introduced in BW) which also can provide some good story and backstory to the 'verse. That's why until it's confirmed, I will debate, not the the Arceus-Unown connection itself, but the terms it consists of. Not to mention that I don't want the Sinnoh myth to overshadow Gen V's myth, whatever it will be.

    I do want backstory (for god's sake, I even intended at one time to pursue a career as a proffesional historian), but I don't want it to overshadow the progress of the story into the future. After all, we need to know where we come from to help us know where we're going and how to get there; so, if the story doesm't expand into the future, I see no point in getting the backstory. I want a balance and that's all; and with the current timeline being stuck in the same 3 year period... well...


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  7. #112
    returns! KedaseDerragar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hints in HGSS?

    My thoughts on all this? Two words:

    Epileptic Trees.


  8. #113
    Doc Octillery FTW VeggiePopper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hints in HGSS?

    Quote Originally Posted by DorianBlack View Post
    My thoughts on all this? Two words:

    Epileptic Trees.

    Basically, this. That's why I've said I won't stick to any theory until Word of God confirms something for sure.


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  9. #114
    Time Traveler Silktree's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hints in HGSS?

    Quote Originally Posted by DorianBlack View Post
    My thoughts on all this? Two words:

    Epileptic Trees.

    It's not an epileptic tree if the actual canon acknowledges that there is a mystery, which is definitely the case here. That is, unless you believe that Game Freak are trying to throw us off, which to me is rather ridiculous.

  10. #115
    returns! KedaseDerragar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hints in HGSS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unown Lord View Post
    It's not an epileptic tree if the actual canon acknowledges that there is a mystery, which is definitely the case here. That is, unless you believe that Game Freak are trying to throw us off, which to me is rather ridiculous.
    Quote Originally Posted by TV Tropes
    A term for wild, off-the-wall theories. Named after a leading tinfoil-hat theory explaining the mysterious shaking, rustling trees on Lost during the first season of that program. The theory? The trees are having epileptic fits. These are also commonly referred to as "crackpot theories" by fans.
    Gee, that sounds like a canon-acknowledged mystery to me.

    Tropes Are Not Bad, so my pointing out that this is a case of Epileptic Trees wasn't intended as a condemnation. I was just pointing out that you guys are probably thinking way too hard about some of this stuff.

  11. #116
    Formerly GTT Grass Type Warrior's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hints in HGSS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unown Lord View Post
    It's not an epileptic tree if the actual canon acknowledges that there is a mystery, which is definitely the case here. That is, unless you believe that Game Freak are trying to throw us off, which to me is rather ridiculous.
    Or is it? As much as I hate to think so, all these mysteries (particularly in relation to the Regi, the Unown, Ho-Oh/Lugia at Ecruteak city and the legegendary beasts) could just be hooks GF placed there without any real answers. Why would they do that? Well, one reason could be to provoke epileptic trees (and if it is, they're doing a damn good job of it). Another could be to have material to fall back on should they ever need ideas.

    That said, it's highly unlikely that GF would have planned all these things since the creation of GS over ten years ago and still have those mysteries nowhere near close to being answered answered to this day (to the point where they may have even gone back a few steps instead of forward, assuming HGSS completely retconned GSC).
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  12. #117
    Time Traveler Silktree's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hints in HGSS?

    Quote Originally Posted by DorianBlack View Post
    Gee, that sounds like a canon-acknowledged mystery to me.
    None of the characters ever said anything about it, so there was always a chance that it wasn't really supposed to be important.

    Quote Originally Posted by Envoy
    Another could be to have material to fall back on should they ever need ideas.
    I think it has come to the point where they do need those ideas to create a compelling mythology. They could keep borrowing elements from real-world religions, but why should they when they have their own stories to touch upon?

  13. #118
    Token Evil Teammate CypherFDP's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hints in HGSS?

    Quote Originally Posted by DorianBlack View Post
    My thoughts on all this? Two words:

    Epileptic Trees.

    You just had to link to TV Tropes, didn't you? I'm going to end up spending all night there. Thanks. Thanks a lot.

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  14. #119
    Doc Octillery FTW VeggiePopper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hints in HGSS?

    Quote Originally Posted by CypherFDP View Post
    You just had to link to TV Tropes, didn't you? I'm going to end up spending all night there. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    Same for me. I'm already on my way with 13 tabs opened.


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  15. #120
    rewrites your life Soulweaver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Hints in HGSS?

    Quote Originally Posted by CypherFDP View Post
    You just had to link to TV Tropes, didn't you? I'm going to end up spending all night there. Thanks. Thanks a lot.
    Don't worry, I'll be with you.

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