Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion - Page 37

View Poll Results: Iris is fit to be the champion?

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  • Totally! She's earned it!

    64 54.24%
  • Nah, she's still too childish.

    31 26.27%
  • Meh... I'll still sweep.

    23 19.49%
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Thread: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

  1. #541
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    Trouble with that is, if you haven't used Memory Link, the game doesn't know if the previous PC was Hilda or Hilbert.

  2. #542
    Something deeper...A bond Eeveeanne's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    About Iris, yeah she's tough but i still don't like her as a champion. I'd have preferred someone else being champion.

  3. #543

    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Eeveeanne View Post
    About Iris, yeah she's tough but i still don't like her as a champion. I'd have preferred someone else being champion.
    Who is better suited to be the new Champion than Iris? Her teacher was Drayden, and Iris was the 8th Gym Leader in White version, a very powerful one at that. She defeated Alder fair and square, as shown in the Memory Link. And I'm rather glad (as everyone knows by now rofls...) that we never see H/H anywhere. It would just be another Red situation.
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  4. #544
    Super Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    Most of the Gym Leaders were pretty manageable to defeat. I don't think that they were as easy as they were in B/W, but most of them didn't pose a huge challenge. Although I did have more of a struggle to defeat Drayden with my White 2 team. Part of that might have been from wanting my Growlithe to do more damage with its newly learned Outrage than it actually did, but they didn't provide a huge challenge. I kind of wish that Drayden was the last Gym Leader. I think he provides more of a challenge than the actual last Gym, we have rotation and triple battles there and the new design, which is awesome, just feels more like the final challenge than the second to last. Although, the design for the eighth Gym is pretty cool.

    The Elite 4 were seriously easy, at least with my Black 2 team since I haven't gotten there in White 2 just yet. Iris was a bit more of a challenge than I expected, but I think I only got a bit of a challenge from her Haxorus and Druddigon. Everything else was pretty easy to take down. Personally, I'm not quite sure how I feel about her being the Champion. It felt a bit too sudden for my tastes considering she was still treated as Drayden's apprentice even in White, but seeing the flashback through the Memory Link to see that she had been raised and trained to eventually become the Champion kind of made it easier to swallow. I see why they went with her as the new Champion in a kind of passing the torch to the younger generation after Alder's defeat in the previous games and it does kind of work on that level. A part of me would have been okay with creating a new character for that role instead, but I guess it doesn't bother me too much in the end.
    Last edited by Hidden Mew; 3rd November 2012 at 02:11 AM.

  5. #545
    Registered User El_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    I've actually warmed up to the idea of Iris as champion, like @Hidden Mew said, a big theme of BW2 seems to be the next generation surpassing the old. Her being champion no longer feels as random as it did at first, at least to me, and I really liked the memory link development. I also very much liked the battle, she proved a much better challenge than Alder did. (Though she IS a dragon champion and all) Her theme music and champion room are also better than Alder's, so thats a plus.

    If I had one major disappointment in her being Champion however, its that compared to past Champions she does not have much a role in the actual story at all... aside from helping to chase a Plasma member? Seriously... that is a major letdown.

    On another note, I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one disappointed in our new 8th Gym Leader. I actually found Wallace's 8th Gym challenge tougher than Marlon's, so thats kinda sad. Actually, I'd even say that Marlon was the easiest 8th Gym challenge so far. Drayden really should have been kept as the 8th Gym Leader, not only was he more challenging, but he was also far more important to the actual plot. Not to mention that his Gym really gives off that "final challenge before the league" type of feeling. (Those twin Dragons were epic) Still, I do like Marlon's Gym, its kinda relaxing. :p
    Last edited by El_; 4th November 2012 at 06:53 AM.

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  6. #546

    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by El_ View Post
    If I had one major disappointment in her being Champion however, its that compared to past Champions she does not have much a role in the actual story at all... aside from helping to chase a Plasma member? Seriously... that is a major letdown.
    Even Blue showed more interest in Team Rocket than she did in Team Plasma (in these games). It's particularly odd seeing as she might have been able to offer valuable input on Kyurem; you'd think that she would have cared about its being abused by Ghetsis.

    One part of Iris' dialogue in the league also makes her look full of herself: "I'm Iris, the Pokémon League Champion, and I'm going to defeat you!"
    Last edited by Silktree; 5th November 2012 at 02:17 AM.

  7. #547
    Registered User El_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Silktree View Post
    Even Blue showed more interest in Team Rocket than she did in Team Plasma (in these games). It's particularly odd seeing as she might have been able to offer valuable input on Kyurem; you'd think that she would have cared about its being abused by Ghetsis.

    One part of Iris' dialogue in the league also makes her look full of herself: "I'm Iris, the Pokémon League Champion, and I'm going to defeat you!"
    She actually played a bigger part and did more in the original games when she wasn't even champion. >_> They really missed some opportunities with her being the new champion, its very strange because champions usually always play a good role in the plot in some form. I'm assuming, that the reason GF decided not to give her a big role was to keep her reveal a surprise. Though I also find this notion odd because Lance who is in a similar situation was handled in a far better way concerning his plot significance with Team Rocket and us learning that he was the champion.

    I dunno... I kinda viewed that as her still being a little immature :p She is still a kid afterall, it may take a while for her to mellow out a bit and mature as a dragon master.

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  8. #548
    Cranky Curmudgeon Signas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    [QUOTE=Silktree;4444816]
    Quote Originally Posted by El_ View Post
    One part of Iris' dialogue in the league also makes her look full of herself: "I'm Iris, the Pokémon League Champion, and I'm going to defeat you!"
    She is an arrogant little prick, as in the rematch, she calls herself the strongest trainer in Unova, even though you already schooled her. Alder did the same yes, but to be fair, N had left Unova at the time. Her statement is also incongruent, as even going by the rematch levels, Cynthia (Because her team is superior) and Benga are stronger. Lastly, she's insultingly easy. Just like with Lance, all it takes is two moves to win. It's real sad that the only mildly challenging Champion outside the PWT is Cynthia.

    This is also the fan in me speaking, but I dislike how Alder was shoved to the side in this game. At least Steven got some screentime throughout Emerald despite being replaced. Plus, he was a super powerful bonus fight. Alder I feel got no time to shine. In BW he helped out, got beat by N and that's about it. In the interim, he retires and that's the end for him basically. He doesn't even do anything significant in BW2. I guess I feel as if he was portrayed as incompetent and weak, not capable of accomplishing a damn thing besides exposition.
    Last edited by Signas; 13th November 2012 at 05:04 AM.

    Still the Unova Champion in my book.

  9. #549
    Registered User El_'s Avatar
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    Its because the plot of BW2 is handled differently than it was in BW. In the original BW, Alder had the plot with Cheren going on and Team Plasma, which were arguably more of a threat to the region and many trainer's beliefs. The plot was overall more focused I felt, which allowed Alder more development, and traditional things like the badge quest weren't even as important (in the grand scheme) like in past games.

    In BW2, the plot is more similar to how past games operate, and not even Iris played a big part in the plot despite being current champion.

    I wonder if its okay to ask in this thread, but do people feel like this is all okay? I mean, do we need more character development/involvement and plot focus, or is just focusing on the badge quest and the league (like how Iris's character is) all that matter?

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  10. #550

    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Signas
    She is an arrogant little prick, as in the rematch, she calls herself the strongest trainer in Unova, even though you already schooled her.
    She does? According to Bulbapedia, her dialogue barely changes in the rematch.

    Initial battle: "Know what? I really look forward to having serious battles with strong Trainers! I mean, come on! The Trainers who make it here are Trainers who desire victory with every fiber of their being! And they are battling alongside Pokémon that have been through countless difficult battles! If I battle with people like that, not only will I get stronger, my Pokémon will, too! And we'll get to know each other even better! OK! Brace yourself! I'm Iris, the Pokémon League Champion, and I'm going to defeat you!"

    Rematch: "The Trainers who come here are Trainers who desire victory with every fiber of their being! And they are battling alongside Pokémon that have been through countless difficult battles! If I battle with people like that, not only will I get stronger, my Pokémon will, too! And we'll get to know each other even better! OK! Brace yourself! I'm Iris, the Pokémon League Champion, and I'm going to defeat you!"

    Quote Originally Posted by El_ View Post
    I wonder if its okay to ask in this thread, but do people feel like this is all okay? I mean, do we need more character development/involvement and plot focus, or is just focusing on the badge quest and the league (like how Iris's character is) all that matter?
    No, the regression in plot quality is not okay. I don't think that I need to explain why it is high time that the main story offered more than just the predictable badge quest, which at least to me stopped being engaging ten years ago. I sincerely hope that the Generation VI games will be more similar to Black and White than to their sequels. That said, Black and White only did so much, as the story was still wrapped up around the league; the climax ended with N leaving Unova, but that led nowhere. In an ideal world, we would have followed N to another region rather than staying in Unova, and by that I'm actually referring to Black and White.
    Last edited by Silktree; 13th November 2012 at 12:50 PM.

  11. #551

    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Signas View Post
    She is an arrogant little prick, as in the rematch, she calls herself the strongest trainer in Unova, even though you already schooled her. Alder did the same yes, but to be fair, N had left Unova at the time. Her statement is also incongruent, as even going by the rematch levels, Cynthia (Because her team is superior) and Benga are stronger. Lastly, she's insultingly easy. Just like with Lance, all it takes is two moves to win. It's real sad that the only mildly challenging Champion outside the PWT is Cynthia.
    I think "confident young girl" is the word you're looking for. :| Seriously, why do you act like Iris practically bought her way to Championship? Is it because you're still crying over Alder's replacement? I mean, seriously now... There's being an Alder fan, and then there's being a blinded biased Alder fan. Did you not see the Memory Link cutscene where she defeated Alder fair and square?! She was trained by freakin' Drayden, and she's the last Gym Leader in White because Drayden knows she's strong and wants her to battle the player. She earned her Championship with hard work. She's confident and a bit bold, yes, but she's not arrogant. Take off your anime!Iris glasses and carefully examine game!Iris's character.

    Her Champion's outfit was also selected by Drayden, btw, in case you're using her very cute princess-like Champion outfit as another sign of her supposed "arrogance". :|

    As for her "easy battle", a Champion Battle is only as easy as you let it be. Try challenging yourself next time and do something new. You can't expect the game to hand you everything. And compared to Iris, Alder was very much a pushover Champion. Fire and other strong moves are all you need.

    EDIT: As Silktree said, Iris never calls herself the strongest trainer in Unova. Guess who does?

    Quote Originally Posted by Champion Alder
    Say now, how about a match with the strongest Trainer in the Unova region?
    I guess it's okay for Alder to call himself the strongest trainer, even after he got schooled by N. :| Totally not okay for Iris, even though she never says such a thing once.
    Last edited by PKMN Trainer Faye; 13th November 2012 at 04:12 PM. Reason: added a bit more
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  12. #552
    Cranky Curmudgeon Signas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    I did say that N had left Unova when you do fight Alder. Though I admit, I was misinformed about the Iris rematch quote, as I only heard it from someone else.

    And I dunno, my main issue is a guy with 50+ years of experience not even being able to beat some little kid. Yeah, I get it, she's a natural phenom, but still. It leaves a bitter taste in my mouth about hard work not meaning a damn thing compared to being born lucky. It also comes back to what I said in my other post about Alder being portrayed as totally incompetent.

    Last of all, I think I'm also annoyed that someone like Marshal or Cheren didn't get the job. I mean, I'd give my number 1 student a chance before some kid I barely know. I'm very aware that Cheren's development in BW showed that power wasn't everything (Which is hilarious, because in the games it's the opposite), but I feel it would have worked if by following his new path, he eventually achieved what he wanted previously.

    Still the Unova Champion in my book.

  13. #553

    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Signas View Post
    And I dunno, my main issue is a guy with 50+ years of experience not even being able to beat some little kid. Yeah, I get it, she's a natural phenom, but still.
    You beat Alder while playing as a pre-teen, didn't you?

    I can't really vote, because none of the options fit how I think about it, and I've only just gotten my sixth badge in White 2, so I won't be battling Champion Iris for a while yet. However, I do think it makes sense that she would become the champion if Hilbert is off travelling with Zekrom/Reshiram in tow and the game version of Iris is treated as someone with prodigious natural talent for training Pokémon. I can't think of anyone else that could do it. Marshal doesn't have enough character, from what I've seen; Cheren just doesn't seem good enough (plus I can't stand him); Drayden's too dedicated to Opelucid City to leave it behind to take up the extra responsibilities of being a regional Champion; N's off travelling with Zekrom/Reshiram and would probably be a wanted criminal in Unova, as well as him being integral to the B2/W2 story, of course.

    The only other astoundingly skilled trainer that leaves, for me anyway, is Iris.
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  14. #554
    Cranky Curmudgeon Signas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Tricky Kipper View Post
    You beat Alder while playing as a pre-teen, didn't you?
    I know. There's a reason I don't really care for any of the protagonists, save possibly Wes.

    Still the Unova Champion in my book.

  15. #555
    I! AM NOT! A MORON! Sith Droideka's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    Er, you're something like 15 in BW/2. So not a pre-teen. Now, I'll say that I thought that one, Drayden would've been a better 8th gym, and two, Iris was a surprise but not really worth getting worked up over. The biggest disappointment of B2W2 was the plot, not the gym leaders and champion.

    E4 still should've had five Pokémon, if not six, however. This ain't BW anymore.
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