Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion - Page 25

View Poll Results: Iris is fit to be the champion?

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  • Totally! She's earned it!

    64 54.70%
  • Nah, she's still too childish.

    31 26.50%
  • Meh... I'll still sweep.

    22 18.80%
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Thread: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

  1. #361
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Call For New Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenyari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Outrage View Post
    I prefer Iris using her non Challenge Mode team since she actually uses the less common dragon, Druddigon.
    That's a very good point. Though, I am vexed by one thing.

    Why is it that it took until the sequel to bring Hydreigon into the League? I guess this is just the Dragon-lover in me, but I find it weird.

    Four Trainers have an Eelektross.
    About five have a Bouffalant.
    Countless have a Bisharp.
    Krookodile... nuff said.
    Scrafty was everywhere.

    But only Ghetsis had a Hydreigon. I would've expected Grimsley to have one.
    Because Hydreigon was Ghetsis' signature Pokémon, and the climax battle was intertwined with the league.

  2. #362
    Bitch. Kenyari's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Call For New Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by The Outrage View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenyari View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Outrage View Post
    I prefer Iris using her non Challenge Mode team since she actually uses the less common dragon, Druddigon.
    That's a very good point. Though, I am vexed by one thing.

    Why is it that it took until the sequel to bring Hydreigon into the League? I guess this is just the Dragon-lover in me, but I find it weird.

    Four Trainers have an Eelektross.
    About five have a Bouffalant.
    Countless have a Bisharp.
    Krookodile... nuff said.
    Scrafty was everywhere.

    But only Ghetsis had a Hydreigon. I would've expected Grimsley to have one.
    Because Hydreigon was Ghetsis' signature Pokémon, and the climax battle was intertwined with the league.
    Haxorus is Drayden/Iris's signatures.

    Yet the Subway Bosses use one.

  3. #363
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Call For New Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenyari View Post

    Haxorus is Drayden/Iris's signatures.

    Yet the Subway Bosses use one.
    Are you missing the part where, like I said in the post you quoted, "the climax battle was intertwined with the league"?

    Or
    the part where the Subway Bosses don't play a major role in-story and the fact that Haxorus is used in their second match? The player would not have encountered it by then, and even if they did, they would not have encountered them in sequential battles as one would if both Grimsley and Ghetsis were given Hydreigon.
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  4. #364
    Zeb
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    Default Re: A Call For New Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by Kenyari View Post
    ...
    Your thread has been merged in with this one.
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  5. #365
    Bitch. Kenyari's Avatar
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    Default Re: A Call For New Leadership

    Quote Originally Posted by The Outrage View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kenyari View Post

    Haxorus is Drayden/Iris's signatures.

    Yet the Subway Bosses use one.
    Are you missing the part where, like I said in the post you quoted, "the climax battle was intertwined with the league"?

    Or
    the part where the Subway Bosses don't play a major role in-story and the fact that Haxorus is used in their second match? The player would not have encountered it by then, and even if they did, they would not have encountered them in sequential battles as one would if both Grimsley and Ghetsis were given Hydreigon.
    Ah. Well, actually I just played through some of the matches in the Battle Institute.

    A guy had a Hydreigon. So now is it a climax-based thing? And if you go the "well, the institute has Legendary Pokemon" route, it still doesn't explain why the Institute (who plays an even lesser role in the game than the Subway Bosses) can have that absolutely essential and noteworthy Unovic Pokemon while the League was deprived of it.

  6. #366
    Allons-y! PKMN Trainer Faye's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    I don't know if it's been mentioned, but Iris is certainly strong enough to be the champion. She's the last Gym Leader in White, after all. In DPPt, Volkner was the last Gym Leader and mentioned that he would take the League Challenge if the player was weak. There's no reason why Iris can't do the same thing.
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  7. #367
    Registered User Taiyou's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by FairyRed View Post
    I don't know if it's been mentioned, but Iris is certainly strong enough to be the champion. She's the last Gym Leader in White, after all. In DPPt, Volkner was the last Gym Leader and mentioned that he would take the League Challenge if the player was weak. There's no reason why Iris can't do the same thing.
    Well it's like I said before the other thread was deleted. Having Iris as Champion invalidates Hilbert/Hilda winning the position back in BW. We've lost an opportunity to have two different Champions with the potential for two different teams, which would have been a first for Pokemon. Instead they're taking a page from GSC and giving us two Dragon-type users again. And regardless of what pokemon Iris has, a good Ice-type and Fighting-type can destroy her.
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    Iris is the champion? I think Drayden deserved it more.
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  9. #369
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    I've really grown to love the idea of Iris as a Champion (the redesign and music+background really helps). What bothers me is the Elite Four, which were basically left untouched aside from a minor roster change or two. We should've had at least one more new member (I personally would've loved to see Clay, Drayden or even Jasmine or Volkner as a E4 member) and I would've liked to see Marshal gone somewhere further with his goal, be it a Champion position or something else.
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  10. #370
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Taiyou View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FairyRed View Post
    I don't know if it's been mentioned, but Iris is certainly strong enough to be the champion. She's the last Gym Leader in White, after all. In DPPt, Volkner was the last Gym Leader and mentioned that he would take the League Challenge if the player was weak. There's no reason why Iris can't do the same thing.
    Well it's like I said before the other thread was deleted. Having Iris as Champion invalidates Hilbert/Hilda winning the position back in BW. We've lost an opportunity to have two different Champions with the potential for two different teams, which would have been a first for Pokemon. Instead they're taking a page from GSC and giving us two Dragon-type users again. And regardless of what pokemon Iris has, a good Ice-type and Fighting-type can destroy her.
    They'd likely have had the same team unless they ported the team you beat N with, in which case its a variable team.

    I don't understand people's logic though.

    If Hilbert/Hilda were in the game, it makes no sense that only N goes after Ghetsis, essentially, shoving them in as Champion without changing the plot is much worse off for their character.

    People are saying this is exactly like GSC. Being a Dragon Champion is coincidental. Those who say Marshal should be Champion would make it more comparable to GSC.

    People saying Drayden deserves it...well, Iris had already been shown in-game (both versions) to have the potential to surpass him. Also, Drayden got a slightly better back-story for staying a gym leader (he's the guardian to the DNA Linker, the only evidence for Kyurem's relation to the other two dragons).

    Now, if you want to make fun of Iris for being the only champion who dresses up for her battle, go ahead. She was actually shown in Castelia with normal clothes.

    People shouldn't assume that being the champion equates to the best role out there. Obviously Hilbert and Hilda, whether they decided to claim the Championship title at a later date may be stronger, but they went off looking for N (honestly, this makes me think they never bothered to get their title post-game; they never actually claimed the title after beating N, just check the Records thing on the PC. The credits didn't role for you becoming Champion). This means the acting Champion at the time had to be Alder as the previous Champion (or Champions) were missing in action. Iris only beat Alder. The PC's (if they claimed the title) Champion title was not invalidated. It's like saying Lance invalidated Red being Champion.

  11. #371
    You Are (Not) Fine Winterdaze's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    Iris being Champion doesn't bother me in the slightest. It's not like there wasn't precedent for it in the original games, and unlike Hilbert/Hilda she actually has a definable personality. I don't get the obsession with PCs anyway :\

    What does bother me is how pathetic the Gym Leaders are this time around. Cheren, Roxie and Burgh are all easier than their BW counterparts, while Drayden and Shizui had the potential to be challenging, but are betrayed by their Pokemon's horrible movesets. Even with my usual restrictions, this lot are looking to be even more of a cakewalk than their predecessors, and that's saying something.
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  12. #372
    Onduru ruragittan disukaa Garren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    Also, people saying Alder should be champ kind of forget that in Black/White iirc, he came back after a long absence (a Pokemon death, apparently) to take over because of Team Plasma, or at least that's how I view it. I think Ghetsis even mentions how Alder was asked by the League to take over, as he was just wandering around mostly.

    Hmmm... It seems my only choice is to return to the Pokémon League and battle N.
    So him not sticking with the position after everything is said and done makes sense. Seems like the type of person who got bored of the position.

  13. #373
    Cranky Curmudgeon Signas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by The Outrage View Post
    Iris only beat Alder.
    We don't know this, unless the dialogue explicitly states it. This is probably the fanboy in me speaking, but he may have just retired.

    I honestly would have preferred Marshal though. It makes more sense, and unlike Iris, there was a bit of foreshadowing other than one NPC saying she has a lot of potential. Her being a kid on par with Drayden doesn't really work when you consider there are characters like Thorton, Banjirou, and Red who are also quite young, yet in Red and Banjirou's case, even stronger.

    I don't particularly mind Iris per say, but if they absolutely needed to do it, I think they could have done it better.

    Still the Unova Champion in my book.

  14. #374
    Onduru ruragittan disukaa Garren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    I don't mind Iris, but yeah, a Fighting-type Champion would've rocked...since it's, you know, the coolest type!

    Also, anyone else wished they gave Cilan Stunfisk and Crustle as his other two Pokemon, and made Chilli and Cress have mixed teams as well? :P We've certainly see the show inspiring teams before (like Brock in Stadium 2 I believe used the Zubat, Vulpix, and Pineco lines)

  15. #375
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gym Leader/Elite 4/Champion Discussion

    There wasn't foreshadowing on Marshal's part. All he said was:

    Marshal: My master told me about this, so I came to see. Do you understand? Even if you lose in battle... As long as you surpass your past self, you've still achieved a victory over yourself. So for that purpose, through battle, we see opponents! We see Pokémon! And we see ourselves!
    Cheren: ...I suppose that's a line you're passing down from Alder?
    Marshal: ...Well, yeah. What I want is to fight a Trainer who sees themselves that way... In associating with such a Trainer, I know I and my Pokémon would get even stronger...
    For Marshal, surpassing oneself is victory enough. He doesn't need a title. Just like how Banjirou doesn't need a title. There's got to be a lot of irony for Marshal to be passing on those words of Alder, and then wanting to be Champion when Alder himself gave up the role of being the active Champion during the BW-era to travel the region, only returning to that seat in an attempt to foil Team Plasma's plan.

    Also, if Alder wasn't beaten, then it would make sense that the next strongest trainer in the League, one of the Elite 4, to replace him until a Champion is found and another trainer get promoted. Saying Iris didn't beat Alder just makes it seem like they plucked a random trainer who had not proven her qualifications to beat the league. Yes, Iris had potential, but unless she showed it by beating the League, I doubt the League would have chosen her over Drayden.

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