The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart - Page 169

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Thread: The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

  1. #2521
    Registered User LimitCrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

    There are a few poisons whose effects are increased because water causes the poison to spread.

    @The_Doctor Think about it this way. You are poisoning the plant itself instead of the ground that it grows in. The plant can't really filter poisons if that happened.

    Flying types are usually in the air, while Grass-types are usually in the ground.

    About Rock's weakness to Grass: there was a reason for that, but I don't remember.
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    Sailor Star Chaser FaerieStar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratelier View Post
    All damage was in multiples of four, matching Smogon's speculations. However, the damage spread (outside critical hits) was 4 and 16 only (no 8 or 12!), which does not match either of the damage calculators linked by Smogon.

    This is too early to draw conclusions from, but it does look like (a) rounding errors do exist somewhere prior to the final damage report, and (b) Smogon's calculators are not 100% accurate.
    According to Smogon's formula for BW, a move that damages for 4 shouldn't even be able to damage the same pokémon for 16. If your data is correct, smogon's random number in the formula must be incorrect.
    I repeated your experiment with a lvl 23 Swadloon vs a lvl 8 Pidove. 2 critical gusts made 28 damage; 2 normal gusts damaged for 16; 25 gusts damaged for 12. My results were as expected by the formulas. I might try tomorrow with a weaker Sewaddle to see if I get a mostly 16 but some 24 pattern.



    Quote Originally Posted by LimitCrown View Post
    There are a few poisons whose effects are increased because water causes the poison to spread.

    @The_Doctor Think about it this way. You are poisoning the plant itself instead of the ground that it grows in. The plant can't really filter poisons if that happened.

    Flying types are usually in the air, while Grass-types are usually in the ground.

    About Rock's weakness to Grass: there was a reason for that, but I don't remember.
    Plants can break rocks while growing. I think that's the reason.
    I think grass should be neutral to poison... Plants just are affected by different kind of poisons (althought I think most substances that would kill a plant would kill an animal too).
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  3. #2523
    clockery Gaga's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by LimitCrown View Post
    About Rock's weakness to Grass: there was a reason for that, but I don't remember.
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Doctor View Post
    Also, I don't think that Rock should be weak to Grass. I think if Grass lost one weakness (either to Poison or Flying, but if Poison then Poison should gain another advantage) then losing its advantage to Rock would be fine. Personally, I think Grass's advantage against Rock is one of the worst.
    Plants can grow through rocks, breaking them apart over years.
    Who seriously hasn't seen plants growing out of concrete/rocks? :V

    I think Grass' weakness against Poison is also fair. It doesn't have to be specific; just that pollution and waste destroys plants and ecosystems.

  4. #2524
    Registered User Stratelier's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by FaerieStar View Post
    According to Smogon's formula for BW, a move that damages for 4 shouldn't even be able to damage the same pokémon for 16. If your data is correct, smogon's random number in the formula must be incorrect.
    Sure, I'll give it another go. Unlike previous gens, in G5 the critical-hit message appears after the type-effectiveness message, so I need to double-check that those hits for 16 points damage actually were not critical hits. It's too bad Swadloon can't use Taunt ... all those Leers and Growls really draw the battle out....

    - Okay, done: After 35 Gusts from a Lv.8 Pidove, 33 of them did 4 points damage, one did 12, one did 16.
    Last edited by Stratelier; 8th July 2013 at 12:26 AM.

  5. #2525
    We all change The_Doctor's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by FairyGaga View Post
    Plants can grow through rocks, breaking them apart over years.
    Who seriously hasn't seen plants growing out of concrete/rocks? :V
    I think a Grass advantage against Ground is good enough for that RL comparison. Rock/Ground types don't need 2 4x weaknesses.

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    clockery Gaga's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by The_Doctor View Post
    I think a Grass advantage against Ground is good enough for that RL comparison. Rock/Ground types don't need 2 4x weaknesses.
    I disagree :P
    Plants grow through both ground and rocks fine, breaking them apart. But I think the justification for Grass being SE against ground could also be as simple as the fact that plants grow in dirt. And its not like Grass is a super threatening type.

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    Not even my final form GreatLiver's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

    I feel like if grass is super effective against rock, so should ice. Plants grow through and crack rocks the same way water gets into rocks, freezes and cracks them apart. But ice doesn't need another type it's strong against offensively. Makes a lot more sense to just get rid of grass on rock. Leave it be with only ground.
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  8. #2528
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    Default Re: The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

    Can I just say.....No.

    Grass is strong against only three types as it is. And it's resisted by SEVEN!!! And you want to take away one of the only good things it's got going for it? Really?
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  9. #2529
    Registered User Gnomowladny's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by Disobedient View Post
    Maybe native is the wrong term. I mean Fairy-types "originating" from Sinnoh or Unova.
    I see. Then, Happiny, Togekiss, Manaphy/Phione, Victini and maybe Audino seem to be strong candidates~

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    I don't think any of the Johto Pokemon found in HGSS can be considered Kanto natives.
    Houndour and Murkrow in GSC/HGSS appears only at Route 7, which belongs to Kanto; how they are Johto Pokemon, and how they cannot be considered Kanto natives?

    I noticed that people tend to call Pokemon Z-native when they are introduced in a new game along with this Z-region, which is not necessarily true. In RGB, Lapras and Jynx were nowhere to be seen in wild in Kanto, as opposite to GSC's Johto locations. So, are they Kanto, or Johto-native? Or the other way around: Zubat appears in all Japanese-based regions, so is it only Kanto-native?
    Last edited by Gnomowladny; 8th July 2013 at 07:04 AM.

  10. #2530
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

    Technically Jynx was found on Seafoam in Japanese Blue and HgSs.

    The whole concept of Native region becomes weird with things like Beldum who are supposedly Gen III Pokemon but cannot be found in the wild except in future generation games that added a lot of gimmicks like Swarms in order to help fill the National Dex.

  11. #2531
    Disturb not the harmony Jeff's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

    Don't forget about Houndour. Despite being called a "Johto Pokemon" like the other Gen 2 Pokemon back in the day, it was only found outside of Celadon City, so was technically Kanto-native.

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  12. #2532
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    Default Re: The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

    I think mixing and matching older types isn't really necessary...even if some changes would make sense...

    as for Fairy, I'd find it hilarious if it was weak to Normal...since normal people don't believe in fairies :D

    But Normal is pretty much the most neutral type in the game. So IDK what to think for weaknesses.

  13. #2533
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    Default Re: The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by Grass Type Warrior View Post
    Can I just say.....No.

    Grass is strong against only three types as it is. And it's resisted by SEVEN!!! And you want to take away one of the only good things it's got going for it? Really?
    True. If you want to help ground/rock types with their weaknesses, make water neutral on rock. It's only SE because of a very slow process of erosion, anyway.

  14. #2534
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    Default Re: The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

    I agree that water hitting solid rock has much less effect than water hitting soft earth, so removing Water's usefulness against Rock could be a good move (Grass has enough problems already, it doesn't need to lose one of its three offensive strengths), but I don't particularly see it happening because it leaves Water with only two types to be effective against.

  15. #2535
    Sailor Star Chaser FaerieStar's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratelier View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FaerieStar View Post
    According to Smogon's formula for BW, a move that damages for 4 shouldn't even be able to damage the same pokémon for 16. If your data is correct, smogon's random number in the formula must be incorrect.
    Sure, I'll give it another go. Unlike previous gens, in G5 the critical-hit message appears after the type-effectiveness message, so I need to double-check that those hits for 16 points damage actually were not critical hits. It's too bad Swadloon can't use Taunt ... all those Leers and Growls really draw the battle out....

    - Okay, done: After 35 Gusts from a Lv.8 Pidove, 33 of them did 4 points damage, one did 12, one did 16.
    Sure the 16 one was not critical? Anyway, I did some more tests during my train rides:
    -Leavanny (lvl 41, sp.def 71) vs lvl 8 Pidove. 5 critical gusts for 16 hp damage, 3 regular gust for 12 hp and 27 gusts for 4 hp.
    -Swadloon (lvl 23, sp.def 43) vs lvl 14 Pidove. 31 gusts damaged for 16 HP, 3 gusts damaged for 24 HP and 1 critical gusts damaged for 40.
    -Maractus (lvl 20, sp.def 36) vs lvl 12 Pidove. 2 critical gust for 20 HP, 2 normal gusts for 12, 31 normal gusts for 8.
    -Petilil (lvl 40, sp.def 40) vs lvl 13 Pidove. 3 crits for 14 HP, 2 gusts 8HP, rest 6 HP.

    My results seem to agree with Smogon's formula for BW and with the calculator you linked (which is for DP, I think), for sp.atk values that Pidove is supposed to have at those levels. If your 16 was not a critical, then the formula is wrong somewhere. Anyway, it seems the rounding system does result in the damage being multiple of 4 (for 4x) or 2 (for 2x) but skipping each 3 values (8 and 20 for 4x, 10 for 2x at least).

    So Gardevoir's damages against Hydreigon would probably be impossible in gen V unless Faerie is SE against Dark. They could be changing the rounding system in gen VI, though. We'll have to wait, I guess.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grass Type Warrior View Post
    Can I just say.....No.

    Grass is strong against only three types as it is. And it's resisted by SEVEN!!! And you want to take away one of the only good things it's got going for it? Really?
    Indeed! And to make things worse, grass pokémon usually don't get many good moves from other types. :/

    Quote Originally Posted by MAZZ0Murder View Post
    as for Fairy, I'd find it hilarious if it was weak to Normal...since normal people don't believe in fairies :D
    Faeries dying because of humans' disbelief is obviously just a myth. I mean, if it were true, the Faeries would all be dead by now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratelier View Post
    I don't particularly see it happening because it leaves Water with only two types to be effective against.
    Mmm... Water would still be pretty good defensively, so it wouldn't be that bad for them, I guess.
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