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Thread: Do you suppose the third games are canon?

  1. #31
    Registered User Blue1225's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you suppose the third games are canon?

    Quote Originally Posted by VeggiePopper View Post
    I think he was not arguing against Johto and Sinnoh, but about Kanto and Hoenn
    "I still struggle to get where fans get this opinion that Kanto and Hoenn happen at the same time and that Johto and Sinnoh happen 3 years later"-Leonardo10

    Seems to me like he was arguing against all of them.

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  2. #32
    Leonardo the Great Leonardo10's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you suppose the third games are canon?

    I was arguing about Sinnoh and Johto taking place at the same time. I accept that Johto happens 3 years after Kanto, but not a the same time as Sinnoh. We know that the third versions are the canon, meaning anything that happened in the first two games of any generation, like the red gyrados thing at the beginning of Diamond and Pearl can be forgotten.

    I'm just worried about people thinking that the remakes of games are sequels of the orginals, no, they are just remakes and they take place at the same time. Like someone said before, the technology is just reflective of what we have in the real world. Cause be real, if your going to remake a game your obviously going to put the latest technology in there and not keep the old stuff, like the time capsule, that would be a major waste of time.

    Even with the remakes, Yellow and Crystal are still the canon of their respective region. But if they made remakes of both yellow and Crystal, now that would be a totally different matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by VeggiePopper View Post
    NO. Just no. FRLG are remakes, not sequels, to RGBY, they're the same story retold, unlike Adventures, where the FRLG arc was a new story rather than the RGB arc happening again. The change in technology is because of updated techonology in real life. But they're still the same story. So the remakes either don't happen, happen at the same time of the originals, or instead of them, but not after them.

    Saying that FRLG happened "at a different time than RGBY" is like saying "my entire life happened after my own life" or "I lived twice" because you're practically saying that RGBY happened, then happened again in FRLG (which means that Red and Red are different characters, Cinnabar island rebuilt itself and was destroyed again, Lavander Tower was turned into a radio tower, then a cemetery again and finally a radio tower again, and so on). Which obviously, is nonsense. It's like making a new Titanic movie and say that it means the Titanic was rebuilt, then hit an iceberg again and sank again.

    Yes, remakes are part of the timeline, overwriting their original namesakes and not being sequels of them.
    Basically I agree with this guy, his post is full of logic.
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  3. #33
    Doc Octillery FTW VeggiePopper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you suppose the third games are canon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo10 View Post
    I was arguing about Sinnoh and Johto taking place at the same time. I accept that Johto happens 3 years after Kanto, but not a the same time as Sinnoh. We know that the third versions are the canon, meaning anything that happened in the first two games of any generation, like the red gyrados thing at the beginning of Diamond and Pearl can be forgotten.
    Although Platinum overwrote Diamond and Pearl, there are still mentions to the Red Gyarados incident (just not at the gamee's opening) and it is still referred to as a recent event, so even with the retconned beginning, the Sinnoh story still takes place at a similar (but not the same) time that Johto (I'd say maybe a few weeks or months after it).

    Quote Originally Posted by Leonardo10
    I'm just worried about people thinking that the remakes of games are sequels of the orginals, no, they are just remakes and they take place at the same time. Like someone said before, the technology is just reflective of what we have in the real world. Cause be real, if your going to remake a game your obviously going to put the latest technology in there and not keep the old stuff, like the time capsule, that would be a major waste of time.

    (...)

    Basically I agree with this guy, his post is full of logic.
    Thanks for agreeing, I was getting worried that people had that feeling.

    Even with the remakes, Yellow and Crystal are still the canon of their respective region. But if they made remakes of both yellow and Crystal, now that would be a totally different matter.
    Here is where I disagree. While I admit that sometimes I would like the originals to remain canon (Pokémon eggs being discovered in GSC was awesome), it seems that the remakes outconned the originals, even the third versions. Platinum had an Arceus event not included in the original DP, but that event was incomplete, its conclusion only happens in HGSS (Sinjoh ruins), which heavily suggests that, if Platinum is canon the canon version, then by extension HGSS are the canon Johto games.

    And then, when HGSS were announced, they were promoted as FRLG's sequels, not as GSC's remakes, which in turn (that is, considering HGSS the canon story from my previous paragraph) means that FRLG are the canon versions now.

    Long-short story, my point is that the latest release is the canon version, i.e. the third versions of non-remade games (Emerald and Platinum) and the remakes of the old games (FRLG and HGSS).


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    Registered User gryffindor1991's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you suppose the third games are canon?

    I definitely count the third versions as canon. I generally prefer them. Like with Diamond and Pearl, you could only get Dialga in Diamond and Palkia in Pearl, but you could get them both in Platinum. So its generally more Pokemon you can get in the third versions.
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  5. #35
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    Default Re: Do you suppose the third games are canon?

    Yes, I consider the 3rd versions as canon, unless they have been remade. In this case I consider the remakes to be canon. I'm not sure how this works with BWB2W2 though.

  6. #36
    Revert & Reverberate Miar's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you suppose the third games are canon?

    Given Red's massive Pikachu and starters, Yellow's probably the canon game
    For G2, since they were remade fairly closely, it doesn't matter.
    Emerald and Platinum were confirmed canon in G5.

    Since BW had sequels instead, they're both canon to their prequels' respective universes

  7. #37
    Doc Octillery FTW VeggiePopper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do you suppose the third games are canon?

    Quote Originally Posted by Miar View Post
    Given Red's massive Pikachu and starters, Yellow's probably the canon game
    For G2, since they were remade fairly closely, it doesn't matter.
    It does matter. HGSS made several changes to the story, so in the Johto tale there are several differences between the games that tell it. Platinum and HGSS reference each other mutually, so if you aknowledge Platinum as the canon game for Gen IV, by extension you count also HGSS as the canon game for the Johto story. Also, if we go by the general assumption that Gen III takes place at the same time that Gen I, since Gen III has Pokémon eggs and treats breeding as nothing new, then it automatically contradicts BOTH Gens I and II, so either RGBY and GSC are not canon anymore, or the entire Gen III was never canon, and since that idea would be just stupid, its safer to say that the games that are not canon anymore are RGBY and GSC, an issue that fortunately has a solution thanks to the remakes which amend the contradictions and thus, repair the plotholes, effectively overwriting them as the canon games.

    As for Gen I/Kanto, it's the same case, if we take HGSS as the canon games for that story, then by extension it is confirmed that currently the canon games are FRLG because of the retcons and how FRLG and HGSS tie with each other via the Sevii Islands subplot.


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