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  1. #46
    Watch out for tha big gun Rocket Raccoon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    They will ruin competitive battling just when I started! Crap! Why can people not realize that a fair lose is better than an unfair win? GF fix this!
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  2. #47
    Registered User Norzan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Quote Originally Posted by PKMN Trainer Faye View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Norzan View Post
    GF better stop this crap or this is going to truly kill online battling.

    Quote Originally Posted by PKMN Trainer Faye View Post
    Are we really freaking out over this? Augh, I wish people would cut out the high-and-mighty attitude against hackers. ._. How is the game "ruined", just because your opponent can now see what you're doing? There are MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of people playing Pokemon, a majority of which are too young to know how to use a program like this. Just how likely are you to actually run into someone who is using this program? Mother of god, I'm seriously angry at how everyone is like "welp no more online battles for me", nothing could sound sillier.
    I have no problem with hackers using Pokegen and Pokesav to get perfect teams but hell no i'm not gonna sit here quietly while this type of crap is running around. And are you seriously defending this? This destroys the entire point of online battling wich is prediction and strategy.
    I'm not defending anyone who actually uses the Battle Analyser, I'm just saying people are freaking out and panicking and jumping to conclusions too soon. It's not like EVERY SINGLE freakin' random trainer you run into will be using this. It's honestly very silly to hear cries of "RUINED FOREVER". Why should a small handful of Pokemon players "ruin" the fun of battling? This kind of senseless panic is just what hackers want. The only thing "ruined" is the amount of people claiming battles online are now "ruined". It's only ruined if you let it be ruined.
    People are freaking out because this crap is going to spread, alot more people are going to use this crap just to win wi fi battles wich means bigger chance of running into somebody using this crap. Same thing happened with Pokegen and Pokesav, a few people started using it and after a while alot of people started using because they were too lazy to make a team. So yeah if this crap spreads (wich is defintely going to) it is going to ruin competitive battling.
    Last edited by Norzan; 1st December 2013 at 10:56 AM.

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  3. #48
    Registered User bluestarfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Palpitoad View Post
    They will ruin competitive battling just when I started! Crap! Why can people not realize that a fair lose is better than an unfair win? GF fix this!
    If you read the whole thread (or just the last 10 or so posts) you'll notice that Nintendo has turned off rated battles right now. So it's either already ruined or they're working on a patch to fix it.



    Quote Originally Posted by Norzan View Post
    People are freaking out because this crap is going to spread, alot more people are going to use this crap just to win wi fi battles wich means bigger chance of running into somebody using this crap. Same thing happened with Pokegen and Pokesav, a few people started using it and after a while alot of people started using because they were too lazy to make a team. So yeah if this crap spreads (wich is defintely going to) it is going to ruin competitive battling.
    Nugget bridge is working on an app to counter battle analyser apparently, (basically it'll feed the battle analyser a bunch of different sets of pokemon so it's harder to guess exactly what attack/pokemon is being chosen and such).

  4. #49
    Conformity is Overrated. Phoenix502's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Quote Originally Posted by bluestarfish View Post
    Nugget bridge is working on an app to counter battle analyser apparently, (basically it'll feed the battle analyser a bunch of different sets of pokemon so it's harder to guess exactly what attack/pokemon is being chosen and such).
    a scrambler program, now that's an idea... heck, perhaps they could submit it to GF and ask if they could use that in their patch. I'm sure that aught to earn some brownie points from them, right? gives the impression that many fans will not tolerate cheating and will help out and stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Norzan View Post
    Same thing happened with Pokegen and Pokesav, a few people started using it and after a while alot of people started using because they were too lazy to make a team. So yeah if this crap spreads (wich is defintely going to) it is going to ruin competitive battling.
    it aught to be worth noting that before, IV Breeding and all that stuff to make a prime competitive team is very tedious and would take practically forever to get done, and not everyone has that kind of time or patience. Pokegen and Pokesav may be alienating those who do it the long and difficult manner, but it provided the competitive metagame much more access to many players.

    besides, even if people were to use Pokemon generators, they'll likely be using something as a reference and duplicating it. so while you'll probably find plenty of people with the same high class team, if you got a counter against it, there's not much they can do about it. it'll still boil down to strategy, and I have a distinct feeling generated teams will typically not really vary in what options they can use...

  5. #50
    Outplay the Coinflip -Glory Blaze-'s Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Quote Originally Posted by Phoenix502 View Post
    it aught to be worth noting that before, IV Breeding and all that stuff to make a prime competitive team is very tedious and would take practically forever to get done, and not everyone has that kind of time or patience. Pokegen and Pokesav may be alienating those who do it the long and difficult manner, but it provided the competitive metagame much more access to many players.

    besides, even if people were to use Pokemon generators, they'll likely be using something as a reference and duplicating it. so while you'll probably find plenty of people with the same high class team, if you got a counter against it, there's not much they can do about it. it'll still boil down to strategy, and I have a distinct feeling generated teams will typically not really vary in what options they can use...
    While PokeGen and PokeSac aren't bad in and of themselves (although IMO if you're too lazy to breed and trade for your team you should play on a sim instead of cheating), they serve as proof of concept. If you make cheating easy, many people will start doing it until it becomes ubiquitous, showing that the people complaining about competitive battlers overreacting really don't fully understand the situation. If it is not stopped, the Analyzer will spread and it will ruin rated Wi-Fi. (it will not, however, ruin competitive battling. Pokemon Showdown does exist, guys.) I'm glad Nintendo is at least doing something about this and I look forward to rating battles reopening! but in the meantime I'll get my battling done on Showdown and over Wi-Fi with other Bulbagarden members.

  6. #51
    Registered User Stratelier's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Quote Originally Posted by Norzan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by PKMN Trainer Faye View Post
    I'm not defending anyone who actually uses the Battle Analyser, I'm just saying people are freaking out and panicking and jumping to conclusions too soon. It's not like EVERY SINGLE freakin' random trainer you run into will be using this. It's honestly very silly to hear cries of "RUINED FOREVER". Why should a small handful of Pokemon players "ruin" the fun of battling? This kind of senseless panic is just what hackers want. The only thing "ruined" is the amount of people claiming battles online are now "ruined". It's only ruined if you let it be ruined.
    People are freaking out because this crap is going to spread, alot more people are going to use this crap just to win wi fi battles wich means bigger chance of running into somebody using this crap. Same thing happened with Pokegen and Pokesav, a few people started using it and after a while alot of people started using because they were too lazy to make a team. So yeah if this crap spreads (wich is defintely going to) it is going to ruin competitive battling.
    Anyone remember Mario Kart DS and its snaking controversy? In my experience, it started out with finding only an occasional player here and there seeming to inexplicably end up with a 5+ second lead by the finish line, but three months later, it seemed like half of the players I got connected with were always Yoshi/Dry Bones snaking the Egg-1/Dry Bomber.
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  7. #52
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Quote Originally Posted by The Outrage View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratelier View Post
    So it simply means they can sneak a peek at the cards in your hand.... sure it's an unsettling development as it gives them perfect information about what you have at your disposal, but it is not cheating on the same level as edited/hacked Pokemon stats or moves.
    It's not cheating on the same level as hacked Pokemon? Yeah, they hacked Pokemon to have perfect stats, they didn't make it so they'll know your every single move as you make it. Read the post again:

    The "battle analyser" works much the same for battles as the "instacheck" program does for trades. A PC is set up as a wireless hotspot to intercept data from the Pokémon games, and upon the opponent clicking confirm on the battle screen, the program shows the opponent's entire party and movesets and displays what moves the opponent chooses during the battle.

    If you think hacking perfect stats destroys the spirit of battling more than a person knowing exactly what move you've made, then something's really wrong here. Unless you wait out the clock and choose your move the second the timer runs out, they're going to know what you chose and then counter it perfectly. Spending 100+ hours breeding isn't reflective of one's skills in battle, but knowing your opponent's every move destroys the point of battling.

    This basically destroys the beauty of Rotation battles.

    I really don't understand why Game Freak had structured online in such a way that they send all the information to the opposing DS at once, even if they haven't made an move yet and you have.
    Hacking pokemon may not destroy the battles, but everything else in the game. The rarity of pokemon, the joy of collecting them, completing the pokedex.
    For Battlers this Battle Analyser programm is what hacked pokemon are for collectors and people who play pokemon the way the developers intended.
    Everyone who uses the programm is a maximilion pegasus in pokemon.
    Last edited by Saro; 2nd December 2013 at 05:48 AM.
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  8. #53
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    I have n problem with legal hackmons, as they still keep a level playing field. All they are is a time saver, and I have no issue with that (god, even I use them for comp). But this? As Saro said, you may as well have a flipping Millenium Eye!

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    Allons-y! PKMN Trainer Faye's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratelier View Post
    Anyone remember Mario Kart DS and its snaking controversy? In my experience, it started out with finding only an occasional player here and there seeming to inexplicably end up with a 5+ second lead by the finish line, but three months later, it seemed like half of the players I got connected with were always Yoshi/Dry Bones snaking the Egg-1/Dry Bomber.
    Learning to use a cheap technique in-game is rather different from a complicated (by the looks and sound of it) computer program.
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  10. #55
    Registered User Stratelier's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Quote Originally Posted by PKMN Trainer Faye View Post
    Learning to use a cheap technique in-game is rather different from a complicated (by the looks and sound of it) computer program.
    True, but the other point is that it's something that you started to see more often over time in your random Wi-Fi matchups. There's nothing unfair about snaking races -- provided all players know how (I was actually decent at it myself after learning what it was). But matching them up versus someone who doesn't is not good for anyone; the snake is shooting fish in a barrel and the others have no hope of winning.
    "What?! You want me to nickname someone I just met?! You shouldn't put people on the spot like this!"
    (No wonder Pokemon nicknames are so difficult to think up.)

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  11. #56
    Allons-y! PKMN Trainer Faye's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratelier View Post
    True, but the other point is that it's something that you started to see more often over time in your random Wi-Fi matchups. There's nothing unfair about snaking races -- provided all players know how (I was actually decent at it myself after learning what it was). But matching them up versus someone who doesn't is not good for anyone; the snake is shooting fish in a barrel and the others have no hope of winning.
    But you're saying you think the Battle Analyser will become as widespread as snaking in MKDS, when there is a big difference between the two. It took me a couple of tries to find it via Google, and I have no idea how to use the thing. I do admit that it wouldn't take long to play around and figure it out, though. But as far as I can see from reading other forums that have discussed the Battle Analyser, very few people have this program, much less know how to use it.

    There is also a person known as Kazo working on (or has already made) a counter to the Battle Analyser (mentioned/seen at NeoGAF and gbatemp). And with Rating Battles temporarily disabled, it seems that Nintendo and GAME FREAK are hopefully working on a patch for this. People shouldn't freak out and declare online battles over so soon with those glimmers of hope on the horizon. It's silly to think this program would go unnoticed by Nintendo and GAME FREAK.

    I must say, though, in a weird way I admire the person who made the program. It's a shame he used his intelligence and skills to make a mind-reading program rather than something more useful. I'm all for hacking, but pulling a Pegasus is a bit much, even for me.
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  12. #57
    Registered User Stratelier's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Quote Originally Posted by PKMN Trainer Faye View Post
    But you're saying you think the Battle Analyser will become as widespread as snaking in MKDS...
    I don't know about that. How often did people encounter hacked Pokemon in G4 or G5 battles?
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  13. #58
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    I just wish people would focus more on winning with strategy and training (the original intention of the series), not with whatever dumb hacking agent comes up each Gen. Hack alone all you want, but when it comes to wi-fi battles, it's only respectful that you give your opponent a fair chance.

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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Quote Originally Posted by The Outrage View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Stratelier View Post
    So it simply means they can sneak a peek at the cards in your hand.... sure it's an unsettling development as it gives them perfect information about what you have at your disposal, but it is not cheating on the same level as edited/hacked Pokemon stats or moves.
    It's not cheating on the same level as hacked Pokemon? Yeah, they hacked Pokemon to have perfect stats, they didn't make it so they'll know your every single move as you make it. Read the post again:

    The "battle analyser" works much the same for battles as the "instacheck" program does for trades. A PC is set up as a wireless hotspot to intercept data from the Pokémon games, and upon the opponent clicking confirm on the battle screen, the program shows the opponent's entire party and movesets and displays what moves the opponent chooses during the battle.

    If you think hacking perfect stats destroys the spirit of battling more than a person knowing exactly what move you've made, then something's really wrong here. Unless you wait out the clock and choose your move the second the timer runs out, they're going to know what you chose and then counter it perfectly. Spending 100+ hours breeding isn't reflective of one's skills in battle, but knowing your opponent's every move destroys the point of battling.

    This basically destroys the beauty of Rotation battles.

    I really don't understand why Game Freak had structured online in such a way that they send all the information to the opposing DS at once, even if they haven't made an move yet and you have.
    When it's put like this it's a lot worse than I thought it was.

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    Registered User bluestarfish's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Well apparently the patch nintendo released last night fixed this issue, rated battles are back online and apparently instacheck (and by extension the battle analyser) no longer works. You cannot use any of the online features of the game until you get this update in particular.

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