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  1. #31
    Registered User Codface's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Well the shiny thing was kind of a cheat too tbh. Hopefully this will force nintendo to block pokemon from being run through a pc wireless and make it router only.

  2. #32
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    No official acknowledgement, but kind of suspicious that Ratings Battle, the thing this would affect the most (and the incentive for people to use this anyway), has been temporarily disabled:

    11/29/2013 GMT
    Important Announcement
    Rating Battles Temporarily Disabled

    We have temporarily disabled the ability to participate in Rating Battles in Pokémon X and Pokémon Y.
    If you try to participate in Rating Battles in your game, you should receive the following error code: 004-3003

    Please continue to check the Pokémon Global Link and the official Pokémon website for updates about when Rating Battles will be available again. We apologize for the inconvenience.
    Hopefully action is being taken against this exploit.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    I didn't think the guy on the first page was supporting it. He's just making a point in how likely is it you'll actually battle someone who uses this program. And that's a good point. And since it requires a PC to use, it obviously won't be of any use at VGC.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Wow, are you kidding me? I haven't been battling in Gen 6 so far (and I'm glad I'm not).
    I really hope Nintendo comes up with something to counter this - And as much as Instacheck was helpful in the collection of shinies, I'm afraid that has to come to an end as well.
    To be frank, these programs has been spoiling the meaning of "effort" in game. You play to have fun.

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  5. #35
    Scandal In The Firenation Akira Bond's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Quote Originally Posted by =Dragonite= View Post
    I bet people who use this lost a bit too many times in wifi battles before. Pity that the only way for them to win is to cheat.
    Cheaters can't win. It's impossible. How can they win? They would have lost all honour and dignity they would have had, and they'd gain nothing. If somebody who cheats to win actually feels like they've won, then clearly they are satisfied enough with false pride, which says a lot about themselves. A cheater has lost the moment they cheat, no matter the outcome of the battle.

  6. #36
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    So I just realized that they didn't give a specified down-time for the above Ratings Battle closure. While it does seem like they're taking action to fix the Battle Analyser issue (if it is the reason for this down time), I surely hope they don't go the same route as Swapnote and just disable the feature permanently.

  7. #37
    Bug-type Master SupersonicScolipede's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Apparently someone has notified Nintendo/Game Freak, so it's possible something will be done like with the Lumiose glitch. However, it's hard for me to see them issuing a patch, because it would both make Ratings battles unplayable for those without the patch (although, if one is able to connect to the internet for Ratings battles, they can probably connect to the internet to download a patch, meaning the issue isn't with internet access but more with external patches being required just to play online), and would give the impression of the game being unfinished and sloppily made due to two patches being released in such a short period after release, negatively impacting sales. Mario Kart 7 somehow managed to deal with this, though, so I guess it's possible.

    Edit: Guess I was wrong, lol.
    Last edited by SupersonicScolipede; 13th December 2013 at 11:39 PM.

  8. #38
    Registered User lugia61617's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Would the bigger issue not be "how exactly can you patch this"? I mean, the system of both instacheck (which is a nice community thing) and Battle Analyser (which we can all agree is just plain evil) requires at least 1 person connect to the Wi-Fi using an Ethernet cable instead of a Wi-Fi Router. But surely they can't block that, else there are plenty of legitimate people who use ethernet cable connections that would become unable to battle.

    And even then, is it even POSSIBLE to see what type of connection is being used?

  9. #39
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Quote Originally Posted by lugia61617 View Post
    Would the bigger issue not be "how exactly can you patch this"? I mean, the system of both instacheck (which is a nice community thing) and Battle Analyser (which we can all agree is just plain evil) requires at least 1 person connect to the Wi-Fi using an Ethernet cable instead of a Wi-Fi Router. But surely they can't block that, else there are plenty of legitimate people who use ethernet cable connections that would become unable to battle.

    And even then, is it even POSSIBLE to see what type of connection is being used?
    Battle Analyser works because of how the games share data with each other. When the battle starts, both games have access to everything the opponent has in their teams, even though you only see the Pokemon and whether or not they are holding an item in Team Preview. This makes sending all that information kind of pointless. Now in battle, the games are continually communicating with their server, and when one person chooses a move, but the other person hasn't, the second trainer receiving data from the server will also receive information about the move the opponent chose even though they have yet to choose a move themselves. Why the game was decided to communicate like this is beyond comprehension, but I'm guessing any patch would make it so that the game sends only the required information. That is, in Team Preview, the only information is the opponent's Pokemon and whether or not they are holding an item. During the battle, the servers won't send information back to any DS's regarding the other players moves until both players have made a move on their turn.

    Either that or Game Freak could encrypt their data better, but let's face it, if they take that approach its only a matter of time until someone else cracks it. They need to address how the games share information with each other, but I'm not sure if that's possible, but hopefully it is.
    BigBadBatter likes this.

  10. #40
    Registered User lugia61617's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Indeed. I kinda already understood how the analyser works with the way the games communicate, and I really must admit Game Freak weren't very clever in the way that they made the information get shared. I mean come on, if they felt the need to secure the GTS servers, why not battles too? I'm guessing they let their guard down because of the 3DS's "uncrackable" status (which as we all know is a bit of a farce)

  11. #41
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Quote Originally Posted by lugia61617 View Post
    I'm guessing they let their guard down because of the 3DS's "uncrackable" status (which as we all know is a bit of a farce)
    I was talking about this with my friend and basically concluded the reason its been uncrackable for so long is because Pokemon wasn't on it yet :P

    Yeah, the 3DS still hasn't been cracked (if you ignore the Diancie, Hoopa, and Volcanion leak), but look what Pokemon fans have achieved. They've found a way to analyze incoming data from online transmissions to basically guarantee egg hatching. There's a guy who modified the 3DS so that it can automatically catch Shiny Pokemon for you.

    It really is obvious Game Freak didn't think their fans could do this--why else would they have left the event legendaries and mega stones in the game's data structure if they thought we couldn't hack it? Unless of course, they left that data in simply to see if someone could hack the game. After all, would you believe someone who hacked the game and said "There's nothing there" or someone who hacked the game and provided you with pictures?
    BigBadBatter and Silverwynde like this.

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    The 3DS being uncrackable has much more to do about preventing piracy measures than being anything about hacking, Action Replay, or game research/game info dumping. Those are just side effects. And to be honest, those side effects have also withstood the test. All of these things that are being done are being done outside of the game (Instacheck, Battle Analyzer), requiring no modification to the actual game itself.

    And for the most part, the 3DS has withstood that test in terms of piracy. Compared to the DS or PSP, it is an absolute hassle to mod a 3DS to run homebrew. Could that change in the future? I suppose. But I doubt it.

  13. #43
    Registered User Stratelier's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Quote Originally Posted by The Outrage View Post
    That is, in Team Preview, the only information is the opponent's Pokemon and whether or not they are holding an item.
    The only flaw to that part is that a complete copy of the Pokemon's data (and not just some compiled digest of it) could be a necessary antihack measure, to verify that data between the two systems is consistent (which in turn helps ensure that attack outcomes between systems are consistent). You can probably guess an opponent's strategy by their moveset, but it doesn't guarantee you can counter it like being able to see their current move confirmed before you decide yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by lugia61617 View Post
    Indeed. I kinda already understood how the analyser works with the way the games communicate, and I really must admit Game Freak weren't very clever in the way that they made the information get shared. I mean come on, if they felt the need to secure the GTS servers, why not battles too? I'm guessing they let their guard down because of the 3DS's "uncrackable" status (which as we all know is a bit of a farce)
    What random said above me. Nobody's hacked the game's code itself, they've just managed to finagle with the communications between game/server.

    (And on a tangent: Last I heard Datel did have a 3DS Action Replay, but it was actually just a 3DS version of their DS Action Replay. Probably because Nintendo 'blacklisted' the original DS Action Replay so it won't play on a 3DS at all.)
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  14. #44
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratelier View Post
    The only flaw to that part is that a complete copy of the Pokemon's data (and not just some compiled digest of it) could be a necessary antihack measure, to verify that data between the two systems is consistent (which in turn helps ensure that attack outcomes between systems are consistent).
    But it doesn't make sense as to why the other 3DS should be privileged to that information in the first place. There's absolutely no reason why any more information past the Pokemon and whether an item is held should be transmitted back to the opponent's DS for Team Preview.

    You can probably guess an opponent's strategy by their moveset, but it doesn't guarantee you can counter it like being able to see their current move confirmed before you decide yours.
    And it's more or less confirmed that Battle Analyser lets you see the move your opponent chose, I don't really see why we're getting back on that issue again, especially when this isn't relevant in terms of the Team Preview issue.

  15. #45
    Allons-y! PKMN Trainer Faye's Avatar
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    Default Re: Beware of the Battle Analyser

    Quote Originally Posted by Norzan View Post
    GF better stop this crap or this is going to truly kill online battling.

    Quote Originally Posted by PKMN Trainer Faye View Post
    Are we really freaking out over this? Augh, I wish people would cut out the high-and-mighty attitude against hackers. ._. How is the game "ruined", just because your opponent can now see what you're doing? There are MILLIONS upon MILLIONS of people playing Pokemon, a majority of which are too young to know how to use a program like this. Just how likely are you to actually run into someone who is using this program? Mother of god, I'm seriously angry at how everyone is like "welp no more online battles for me", nothing could sound sillier.
    I have no problem with hackers using Pokegen and Pokesav to get perfect teams but hell no i'm not gonna sit here quietly while this type of crap is running around. And are you seriously defending this? This destroys the entire point of online battling wich is prediction and strategy.
    I'm not defending anyone who actually uses the Battle Analyser, I'm just saying people are freaking out and panicking and jumping to conclusions too soon. It's not like EVERY SINGLE freakin' random trainer you run into will be using this. It's honestly very silly to hear cries of "RUINED FOREVER". Why should a small handful of Pokemon players "ruin" the fun of battling? This kind of senseless panic is just what hackers want. The only thing "ruined" is the amount of people claiming battles online are now "ruined". It's only ruined if you let it be ruined.
    Haxorus31 likes this.
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