Thread: Which is the better remake?

Originally Posted by Midnight Blue

Did anyone ever consider HGSS a "revision" than a "remake"?

Yeah. I did. There was a lot of new stuff added so it made sense. It's just that everyone's been calling them remakes.

Remember this?

It's a whole new world we live in
It's a whole new way to see
It's a whole new place with a brand new attitude
But you still gotta catch 'em all and be the best that you can be

Pokémon Johto!

That's how I've described the games ever since July.

The biggest problem with FR/LG is they felt like one of those horrible shot-for-shot remakes of a classic film. Yeah, it's prettier now (though I'd argue that it wasn't), and you get a few minuscule additions, but there is noting there that makes it its own game. It's purely dependent on the originals. Not to mention, it did nothing for the series. Those games were (and are) just... there. With FR/LG being the remakes of the landmark games that launched this series, I was expecting them to at least try to do something fresh... and they did not...

Now, of the little I've played of HG/SS (which is very little), and of the footage I've seen (which is a lot), it seems to be its own game. They aren't going to capture the novelty the series still had progressing into Gen II if these games are relegated to a fresh coat of paint (again, see: FR/LG) as its only real selling point. Luckily, it seems HG/SS could be the games to finally bring innovation back to the series.

Something I still feel Gen II has in spades, and more so than any of the other sequels, is raw innovation... those games didn't have a console that was dramatically different than its predecessor to use as a crutch (somthing that was a major fault of FRLG/RSE and DPPt) and yet the games still felt fresh. G/S/C have been the only games to do this, and do it well... and it would be only fitting for HG/SS to be the games to bring that novelty back to the series.

FRLG.

HGSS might be better games, which is coming from someone who dislike the originals, but FRLG are better REMAKES. HGSS did add a lot of material, but most of the added features were gimmicks IMO. Even though FRLG didn't add much, the material added was good and the overall game was handled nicely. Both have their pros and cons, so it's really opinion.

Let me elaborate, HGSS could of improve upon GSC than GameFreak actually did. In my opinion, RGBY did not have many flaws and FRLG fixed the few flaws that needed to be fixed. The Sevii Islands were a neat addition to the game after you beated the E4. There isn't anything to do in Kanto except to gain badges just like the originals. Before I played HGSS, I thought HGSS was a better remake hands down, but now I'm not really sure. Just looking at footage, it makes one assume that FRLG had no effort put in and HGSS are vastly enhanced versions.

BTW, I own both HGSS and FRLG, with both completed.

Originally Posted by Raine

FRLG.

HGSS might be better games, which is coming from someone who dislike the originals, but FRLG are better REMAKES. HGSS did add a lot of material, but most of the added features were gimmicks IMO. Even though FRLG didn't add much, the material added was good and the overall game was handled nicely. Both have their pros and cons, so it's really opinion.

Let me elaborate, HGSS could of improve upon GSC than GameFreak actually did. In my opinion, RGBY did not have many flaws and FRLG fixed the few flaws that needed to be fixed. The Sevii Islands were a neat addition to the game after you beated the E4. There isn't anything to do in Kanto except to gain badges just like the originals. Before I played HGSS, I thought HGSS was a better remake hands down, but now I'm not really sure. Just looking at footage, it makes one assume that FRLG had no effort put in and HGSS are vastly enhanced versions.

BTW, I own both HGSS and FRLG, with both completed.

lolopinions

One should not walk into this thread and attempt to force your opinion onto another person.
Clearly you seem to be speaking in the sense of countering everything the person above you said.

Originally Posted by Absur'd

lolopinions

One should not walk into this thread and attempt to force your opinion onto another person.

..I'm honestly really annoyed with you, but I won't elaborate. How is that "forcing" opinions onto another person? >> I even said in my own post that it's really your own opinion.

Fine, HGSS are better remakes than FRLG. Happy now? >>

Originally Posted by YeOldeJacob

The biggest problem with FR/LG is they felt like one of those horrible shot-for-shot remakes of a classic film. Yeah, it's prettier now (though I'd argue that it wasn't), and you get a few minuscule additions, but there is noting there that makes it its own game. It's purely dependent on the originals. Not to mention, it did nothing for the series. Those games were (and are) just... there. With FR/LG being the remakes of the landmark games that launched this series, I was expecting them to at least try to do something fresh... and they did not...

Heh. Bringing back a full roster of the original 151 Pokémon, almost all completely unavailable before in 3rd Generation (And even with XD, you'll still miss plenty that only appear in FRLG) sure did nothing for the series at the time.

Originally Posted by Raine

..I'm honestly really annoyed with you, but I won't elaborate. How is that "forcing" opinions onto another person? >> I even said in my own post that it's really your own opinion.

Fine, HGSS are better remakes than FRLG. Happy now? >>

That's not at all what I'm saying. Geez, I say one thing and suddenly I'm being blasted with "LOL UR A FANBOY" sarcasm. Did I say this game was perfect? No.
Did I say it was better than FR/LG? I might have, but that's purely my opinion. Your sarcasm doesn't phase me.

What I'm saying is that this is supposed to be a topic where you share your opinion on the specific games, not a "tell people how much you disagree with their opinion and then post examples of how their opinion is mostly biased/wrong" topic.

I like how when I brought up that I didn't like how FR/LG were too copy-pasty - people start bashing my opinion because FR/LG is a "perfect faithful remake with beautiful sevii islands", then pick apart every flaw in HG/SS.

Originally Posted by *Orion*

Heh. Bringing back a full roster of the original 151 Pokémon, almost all completely unavailable before in 3rd Generation (And even with XD, you'll still miss plenty that only appear in FRLG) sure did nothing for the series at the time.

Yes, because bringing back the original 151 is a justified excuse to copy and paste the originals without bothering to make a lot of, if any, changes.

And also because HG/SS is totally pointless and a waste of time because all the pokemon are already available in Platinum.

Originally Posted by Absur'd

Yes, because bringing back the original 151 is a justified excuse to copy and paste the originals without bothering to make a lot of, if any, changes. They could have done a bit more jazz than copy paste + a coat of legendary pokemon islands.

As you say, "lol opinions". The Sevii Islands were actually new plot content. What new things does HGSS have plot-wise? The Giovanni event, the Arceus event, the Pichu event (I have to count even such a meager event at this point), Steven being in Kanto, the Weather Trio mythos... whoop dee doo. And again, small twists and turns to the storyline of old don't cut it as "new content".

New Gym Leader dialogue, appearances and stuff? Same as the Fame Checker. Might be more in-depth, but it's basically the same.

And also because HG/SS is totally pointless and a waste of time because all the pokemon are already available in Platinum.

You said it. FRLG was actually needed for the 3rd Generation's timeframe. HGSS isn't. Yes, they could've done another game with 1st Gen Pokémon in 3rd Gen, but they didn't, and that's all there is to it.

Originally Posted by *Orion*

As you say, "lol opinions". The Sevii Islands were actually new plot content. What new things does HGSS have plot-wise? The Giovanni event, the Arceus event, the Pichu event (I have to count even such a meager event at this point), Steven being in Kanto, the Weather Trio mythos... whoop dee doo. And again, small twists and turns to the storyline of old don't cut it as "new content".

New Gym Leader dialogue, appearances and stuff? Same as the Fame Checker. Might be more in-depth, but it's basically the same.


You said it. FRLG was actually needed for the 3rd Generation's timeframe. HGSS isn't. Yes, they could've done another game with 1st Gen Pokémon in 3rd Gen, but they didn't, and that's all there is to it.

Plot content to you, side-questy post game filler to me.
Extra rocket story? R/S trading filler.

Well then get that whitney outta your avatar, that's HG/SS stuff! You shouldn't have pointless wastes of time, you superior being, you!

Originally Posted by Absur'd

Plot content to you, side-questy post game filler to me.

That's why I quoted you. Objectively, it's plot content, though. No matter how much you downgrade it.

Well then get that whitney outta your avatar, that's HG/SS stuff! You shouldn't have pointless wastes of time, you superior being, you!

Ehehehe, who's overreacting now? I know this is sarcasm, as well. In any case, even if I think GSC/HGSS are barely average, that doesn't mean I can't like Johto stuff. In fact, I really love Johto, and it sucks it keeps being downplayed every time it's featured.

I'm just sharing my opinion, too. I'm not forcing it, am I? Really, twisting my words is just as bad.

As far as I'm concerned, FRLG were better-realized Remakes. They're crappy main games, though. HGSS improve on the originals, but not enough, as far as I'm concerned. But they're definitely better as main games, even if they still fall short in plenty of areas (Was it so difficult to make the Ilex Forest, the Ice Path and the Route next to the Power Plant applicable areas for the 4th Gen location evolutions?).

The original Pokemon may have not been in RSE, but that still doesn't change my opinion (yes opinion, not fact) that Fr/Lg, ON ITS OWN, was a minimal updated version of RBY. Same could be true for HGSS but as I said in another thread GF seems to have established Johto as their "guinea pig" in terms of testing new features. At least to me. It's sad, since it holds back a lot of Johto's potential. HGSS did improve on it quite a bit though.

While I disagree a good deal with the majority of what Raine and the others say I can see where they are coming from. Fr/Lg was a very faithful remake to the originals and did a good job, that I'll give it credit for. Yet so much more could have been added to it while keeping the original material intact. I wouldn't call HGSS's new features gimmicky either. Some of the little features like seeing gym leaders interacting and leaving their gyms are very welcoming. Especially since I love the region (and even Kanto for all the times I seem to knock on it) and its characters. Anything to breathe even a little life into Johto and Neo Kanto is good enough for me. Of course that would mean nothing to those who dislike Johto or don't care for the storylines. But to me that works.

What I'm really trying to say is that both remakes are not for everyone. Everyone has a reason to love/hate/etc. certain games in general. What works for one person won't work for the other. I'm personally versatile with this series in general and I have my own ways of enjoying the games. If I want a trip back in time Gen.III style I'll play Fr/Lg. If I want to play in Hoenn or attempt the BF in the future I'll play Emerald. Pearl is my main game for now so I always spend my time on that. However if I get sick of it or want to get more Pokemon for my Pokedex I'll play the GBA games and Pal Park Pokemon over.

tl;dr- If you go in with an open mind to any game you'll be surprised. I thought Pearl was boring and that the Gen.IV Pokemon were crap at a glance. When I finally played Pearl and gave it a chance I ended up loving every minute (scaling Mt.Coronet, having the showdown with Cyrus and meeting Palkia beats even battling Red in terms of epicness.) Not to mention I fell in love with many of the new Pokemon (Gastrodon has an awesome cry.)

Originally Posted by *Orion*

As far as I'm concerned, FRLG were better-realized Remakes. They're crappy main games, though. HGSS improve on the originals, but not enough, as far as I'm concerned. But they're definitely better as main games, even if they still fall short in plenty of areas (Was it so difficult to make the Ilex Forest, the Ice Path and the Route next to the Power Plant applicable areas for the 4th Gen location evolutions?).

Well see that's the thing. They still want to give players a reason to purchase D/P/PT. There's really no need to give HG/SS everything and leave the star of the 4th gen in the dust. Sure there's the legendary Pokemon, but HG/SS even has 4 D/P/PT legendaries.

No need to make D/P/PT and Sinnoh as a whole into a moot game eh?
I'm in the shittiest mood ever today so I'm just rageposting everywhere, basically.

Originally Posted by Absur'd

Well see that's the thing. They still want to give players a reason to purchase D/P/PT. There's really no need to give HG/SS everything and leave the star of the 4th gen in the dust. Sure there's the legendary Pokemon, but HG/SS even has 4 D/P/PT legendaries.

No need to make D/P/PT and Sinnoh as a whole into a moot game eh?
I'm in the shittiest mood ever today so I'm just rageposting everywhere, basically.

Dialga, Palkia, Giratina... where's the 4th one? And it doesn't matter, since only one of those is obtainable in a single file. And it's triggered by an event Pokémon not everyone is going to have access to.

Making those location Evolutions possible in HGSS don't detract from purchases of Platinum (I fear for the mental sanity of anyone who buys Diamond/Pearl at this point). You still need the damn game if you want the Starters, the Legendaries, and several other Pokémon (Not all of them are available through HGSS). You don't even need to buy the game yourself, much less with Wi-Fi. Hell, I'm at a situation where I only have one DS. I have Diamond, Pearl and Platinum, but it's useless without a second DS.

At the end of the day, you're going to have to trade anyway for Pokémon that don't appear in HGSS, and for trade evolutions. Why can't they make every non-Trade Evolution Pokémon available? It doesn't affects the sales of the previous games at all. Eliminating the need of other games... that's the whole point, or should be the whole point of HGSS. As it stands, Platinum is vastly superior, regardless of all their gimmicks, and even in functionality, despite lacking the "advanced" features in HGSS.

Making 4 Evolutions possible isn't going to make everyone alive buy HGSS over Platinum. If I didn't have Platinum already, hadn't bought Diamond or Pearl, and knew of its content and HGSS's, I'd choose Platinum over it. I'm not sold by the same game of old with some new bells and whistles. I'm sold by a whole new game with convenient gameplay (The Pokégear is prettiful, the Pokétch is convenient). So yes, it was purely adding even more trading constraints to a series that already has a whole lot on its own.

That's the difference.

Some people play Pokemon for all the stuff you mentioned, other people play just to play a Pokemon game and to be the very best. (like no one ever was, btw)

Not everyone thinks that hard about little dib dab details. We could have done with this, we could have done without that. All a moot point when you're just playing to enjoy a Pokemon game.

And why should HG/SS eliminate the need for Platinum? Platinum IS the 4th gen, I don't see why a remake should negate its purpose.

I put forth the motion that Raine, Keldora, Orion, and Absur'd stop ripping each others opinions apart. All in favor?