Which is the better remake? - Page 3

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  • FRLG

    24 19.20%
  • HGSS

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Thread: Which is the better remake?

  1. #31
    The Last Red Mage Keldora Dragon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is the better remake?

    I don't get why people are getting all wound up over the Sevii Islands and Leaf not being in the game (not directed at you Orion, but others I know.) The Sevii Islands were, to me, a Fr/Lg only thing to extend on the actual plot. And Leaf was just an alternative female to Red. I honestly don't give a shit about what was "retconned" and what wasn't in HGSS, I just wanted to play through my favorite region again. I swear if there was a drinking game about how many times the word "retcon" appears in the HGSS section, then everyone would die of alcohol poisoning.

    In another thread I posted both the good and the bad about both remakes. Since I can't be arsed to repeat it all I'll just copy-paste everything from that post:

    Fr/Lg:
    -Remake Kanto
    -Tell the story that pretty much began the whole game series.
    -Give people who never played RBY a chance to play them updated.
    -add a lot of unobtainable older gen. Pokemon in Gen.III
    -promote connectivity

    HGSS:
    -Remake Johto
    -From what I've seen all over Johto is a very well-recieved region to fans. Because of its popularity GF probably found the oppertunity to give Johto fans their share of remake treatment, as well as make money. So remaking popular games that were well-loved + making money over pleased fans = win-win situation.
    -Like with Fr/Lg, give people the chance to play GSC updated. I guess one edge that remaking GSC has over remaking RBY is the whole internal battery issue. (I haven't really heard of battery problems with RBY but they probably aren't as widespread.)


    They both have their good and bad points, so you can't really compare them too much in my opinion.
    Last edited by Keldora Dragon; 30th October 2009 at 05:58 PM.

  2. #32
    追放されたバカ Nando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is the better remake?

    HGSS. By FAR.

    FRLG were a faithful return to the roots of the series, and I give them credit for that. But it was too faithful - even taking down every syllable of text (leading to bizarre things like the "rambling, gaming dude") and excluding upgrades such as Berry growing hurt it immensely.

    HGSS, while having flaws, is possibly the deepest environment the series has ever offered, and it shows.

  3. #33
    Researcher RudolphMilotic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is the better remake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keldora Dragon View Post
    I don't gey why people are getting all wound up over the Sevii Islands and Leaf not being in the game (not directed at you Orion, but others I know.) The Sevii Islands were, to me, a Fr/Lg only thing to extend on the actual plot. And Leaf was just an alternative female to Red. I honestly don't give a shit about what was "retconned" and what wasn't in HGSS, I just wanted to play through my favorite region again. I swear if there was a drinking game about how many times the word "retcon" appears in the HGSS section, then everyone would die of alcohol poisoning.
    I don't get why people have to defend so much HGSS either; if you really like the games, 'negative' points of view from other people will not refrain you from enjoying the experience of playing them. As I already said, I'm both biased by the fact I hate Johto, and disappointed with Game Freak because I think they could have done a better work with the story without the need to retcon things that, in my opinion, made perfectly sense in the original games and not only were an excuse to the lack of cartridge memory space like almost everyone thinks.

    About the birds being in HGSS, I didn't like that not only because they're already catchable in Platinum but most of all because Game Freak was a bit lazy with the plot and decided to bring back the Seafom Islands -Articuno is still there after three years without any worries despite Blaine moving his Gym and what I guess is some tectonic activity by the influence of the near Cinnabar- and place Zapdos in a ridiculous cheap location -a Legendary Pokémon is just outside of a human-inhabited building?- just for the sake of including more legendaries. I won't say anything about Moltres because I kind of agree and tolerate the fact that it was placed in Mt. Silver. At the very least I was expecting new locations for them or some twists to Kanto. The same happens with Mewtwo and Cerulean Cave.

    My final words are that no matter how much people try to express why the changes to HGSS story aren't a big deal, don't care the retcons or love almost every aspect of them and the new features, I won't change my mind. I have encompassed every aspect of what I like and what I don't about them in my last posts so I think I'm done with that. They are pretty good games by themselves but sadly a bad impression of what I wanted for a remake and a post-Platinum Generation IV version.
    Last edited by RudolphMilotic; 29th November 2009 at 03:11 AM.

  4. #34
    That one over there ぎんくも's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is the better remake?

    Probably HGSS, for me- I'm honestly not sure why, but I never managed to "get into" FRLG. I'm really not sure what it was, but I just... couldn't do it. I still miss (and prefer) the originals of both, though- HGSS had FAR too many legendaries for my liking (my original goal of trying to get every legendary into one photograph is absolutely impossible, even allowing for the sheer size of them, and this is saddening!), but other than that I did like it. Maybe not as much as the originals, but I did. I do, however, think the new features in them would probably have worked better in a completely new game.

  5. #35
    The Last Red Mage Keldora Dragon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is the better remake?

    Quote Originally Posted by RudolphMilotic View Post
    I don't get why people have to defend so much HGSS either; if you really like the games, 'negative' points of view from other people will not refrain you from enjoying the experience of playing them. As I already said, I'm both biased by the fact I hate Johto, and disappointed with Game Freak because I think they could have done a better work with the story without the need to retcon things that, in my opinion, made perfectly sense in the original games and not only were an excuse to the lack of cartridge memory space like almost everyone thinks.

    About the birds being in HGSS, I didn't like that not only because they're already catchable in Platinum but most of all because Game Freak was a bit lazy with the plot and decided to bring back the Seafom Islands -Articuno is still there after three years without any worries despite Blaine moving its Gym and what I guess is some tectonic activity by the influence of the near Cinnabar- and place Zapdos in a ridiculous cheap location -a Legendary Pokémon is just outside of a human-inhabited building? just for the sake of including more legendaries. I won't say anything about Moltres because I kind of agree and tolerate the fact that it was placed in Mt. Silver. At the very least I was expecting new locations for them or some twists to Kanto. The same happens with Mewtwo and Cerulean Cave.

    My final words are that no matter how much people try to express why the changes to HGSS story aren't a big deal, don't care the retcons or love almost every aspect of them and the new features, I won't change my mind. I have encompassed every aspect of what I like and what I don't about them in my last posts so I think I'm done with that. They are pretty good games by themselves but sadly a bad impression of what I wanted for a remake and a post-Platinum Generation IV version.
    Nobody is trying to change your mind. I have the right to challenge the points others make as you do to dislike the game (or at least the game's mechanics.) Whether you agree with me or not is fine, you have the right to your opinion too. I'm not letting negative views change my views on the games either. They don't bother me at all, and I don't get why it's such a problem that I debate on some of those negative views. Doesn't mean I'm denying that flaws exist, I just see certain problems differently. Like the Battle Frontier. I aknowledge that it was a poor move to copy-past Platinum's, but it doesn't bother me as much since I don't use it at all. So while I admit it's a flaw, I'm not personally bothered by it.

    It amuses me that when HGSS fans debate over features, they're automatically branded as fanboys "defending" their beloved game. At least I'm not, I praised Fr/Lg a whole lot in the past, especially for re-igniting my interest in the series. I thank those games dearly for that. And not to mention showing me to appreciate Kanto more, a region I honsetly care the least about (but it's still cool.)

    And to wrap this all up= This post can be applied to everyone else too. Just so that nobody jumps down my throat for singling them out.

  6. #36
    Researcher RudolphMilotic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is the better remake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keldora Dragon View Post
    Nobody is trying to change your mind.
    In fact, I only quoted your post because I wanted to begin my reply with someone else's idea. I actually do think there are people who provided answers in a way that sounded like they want to change my perception (or at least for the 'fun' of bashing my opinions), but clearly you weren't one of them.

    For the record, I never thought of you as a 'fangirl'; I rarely use those terms to qualify the feelings of people who show gratitude towards their beloved games in spite of if they display a clashing behavior or not.
    Last edited by RudolphMilotic; 29th October 2009 at 10:31 PM.

  7. #37
    The Last Red Mage Keldora Dragon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is the better remake?

    Quote Originally Posted by RudolphMilotic View Post
    In fact, I only quoted your post because I wanted to begin my reply with someone else's idea. I actually think there are people who provided answers in a way that sounded like they want to change my perception (or at least for the 'fun' of bashing my opinions), but clearly you weren't one of them.

    For the record, I never thought of you as a 'fangirl'; I rarely use those terms to qualify the feelings of people who show gratitude towards its beloved games in spite of if they display a clashing behavior or not.
    Ok thanks for the clear-up. I got a bit carried away there. But I see what you're saying, I've noticed it a lot with both sides.
    Last edited by Keldora Dragon; 29th October 2009 at 10:37 PM.

  8. #38
    Simply Farfetch'd Absur'd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is the better remake?

    Quote Originally Posted by RudolphMilotic View Post
    text
    Well for starters you could stop coming off as sounding like you think your opinions are fact. You appear to be constantly saying that that regardless of people's opinions, the game is a flaw and should be treated as a flaw. You sit at a computer and tell people that you think the game sucks, and argue back when someone says they think the game is good. What the hell point is that?

    Not everyone is going to have the same opinion as you. You seem to think that there's a certain superiority that comes with telling people "what I think could have been done" or "what I think should have been done".


    Second, Moltres in R/B/Y was chilling in Victory Road in between 2 cooltrainers and that place was more inhabited by people than the power plant.

  9. #39
    Researcher RudolphMilotic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is the better remake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Absur'd View Post
    Well for starters you could stop coming off as sounding like you think your opinions are fact. You appear to be constantly saying that that regardless of people's opinions, the game is a flaw and should be treated as a flaw. You sit at a computer and tell people that you think the game sucks, and argue back when someone says they think the game is good. What the hell point is that?
    I never intended that my opinions were worded like they were facts; if you got that impression, I guess you were wrong all the time. Even if you read my other posts, when I quoted someone else was because they were in fact sounding like they had the objective and definitive answers, not because I wanted to bash their conceptions. The only thing I actually stand for and consider to be superior is the Vs. Seeker, and that's even a sample of a subjective point of view. And you're kind of right about the regardless of people's opinions, the game is a flaw, but I guess it should be more like regardless of people's opinions, I consider the game a flaw: when I bolded or put text in italics, it was because I wanted to highlight that they were my opinions, not things that should be treated like official, indisputable facts. 'Superiority' is in the eye of the beholder and if you think I was attempting to show off that, it was merely an assumption of yours.

    Quote Originally Posted by Absur'd View Post
    Moltres in R/B/Y was chilling in Victory Road in between 2 cooltrainers and that place was more inhabited by people than the power plant.
    We don't know for sure if Victory Road is meant to have more humans than the Power Plant going only by the number of actual sprites within the location, and besides a cave is a more suited place for a Legendary Pokémon than just outside of a building, with the constant traffic of people coming in and going out. Also, I never stated that the location of Moltres in RBY was a perfect spot, but FRLG's Mt. Ember is.

  10. #40
    追放されたバカ
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    Default Re: Which is the better remake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Absur'd View Post
    R/B - G/S continuity =/= FR/LG - HG/SS continuity
    No. FR/LG was canonically the same thing as RGBY. So, after three years passed it should change in similar way.

    You don't convince me at all. Where are FR/LG-exclusive elements like Trainers' Fan Club in Saffron? Where are Sevii mentionings?

    If FR/LG was a retcon-filled remake of FR/LG with major changes to Kanto, I would believe in your "different continuity". But having the same story, it's a part of the SAME continuity. And HGSS doesn't reference HGSS that much (aside from Red's design).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuutakesh! View Post
    Not to mention GF had to come up with some reason to explain why the cave was gone in the first place.
    BACKSTORY FOR MEWTWO!

    That was exactly what we needed for him. Not "Hey! I'm in the still in the same cave, since nobody gave a flying shit about me three years ago".

  11. #41
    Registered User Zynetic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is the better remake?

    This was kind of a stupid question to ask in my opinion, as it's OBVIOUS most people are going to say HGSS, due to bias of GSC. (Think about what I just said. Many people are just saying "They added lots of new features so it's better" without explaining thmselves at all).

    From what I see, a remake doesn't need lots of brand-new, gimmicky features to be good. Just re-capturing the old games to appeal to a newer audience is all a remake has to be. You see - remakes aren't made so that people who played the originals can play through them all over again. No, they're made so that newer fans are able to play through what older fans did years ago while still playing up to their standards (as they are bound to be higher, due to what they've experienced).

    Now, back to the question, I don't think any remake is better than any other. They're both the same in the end, and all new gimmicky features aren't really valued after the general audience has actually played the games (sure, you can look at them and say they're good, but you can't make any judgement until you've actually played the game).

    Seriously, if HGSS is better because of all the new features, there is something wrong with people to me. Pokemon is about capturing monsters, battling them, making them stronger and ultimately becoming a "Pokemon Master". Everything else are just small detours to the main game itself, for lets take out the main game and leave all these "outstanding features" in the game. Is it a game now? No.

    So, in my opinion, FR/LG = HG/SS, even though they butchered the Johto plot in HG/SS.
    Diryn.

  12. #42
    Simply Farfetch'd Absur'd's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is the better remake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxim Menschevick View Post
    BACKSTORY FOR MEWTWO!
    Why in the flying fuck do we need a backstory for everything that moves?

    That seems more "fanwank" than anything, to be honest. Some things are best kept unknown. A lot of backstory =/= a good story.

    Frankly, I think the "mewtwo was created and then he went on a rampage but then he hid in a cave" is a fine enough story.

    I don't need to find out that mewtwo lived a troubled childhood in loneliness because he was neglected so then he became angry and so and so and so and so and so and so and so and so and now he sits in rage filled meditation longing for someone to accept him as a pokemon.

  13. #43
    The Last Red Mage Keldora Dragon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is the better remake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diryn View Post
    Seriously, if HGSS is better because of all the new features, there is something wrong with people to me. Pokemon is about capturing monsters, battling them, making them stronger and ultimately becoming a "Pokemon Master". Everything else are just small detours to the main game itself, for lets take out the main game and leave all these "outstanding features" in the game. Is it a game now? No.

    So, in my opinion, FR/LG = HG/SS, even though they butchered the Johto plot in HG/SS.
    So there's a problem with people liking HGSS for its new features? And maybe the people posting here like the game itself as well. If HGSS stayed true to the originals like Fr/Lg did to RBY then the fanwank we would get would be even worse.

    I like Fr/Lg for being true to RBY but to me that's a double-edged sword. Great they remained faithful to the originals, but they did it a bit too much and not even the Sevii Islands could make up for it.

    Fr/Lg is no less a glorified port as HGSS and the other way round. Seriously! Strip away all the features, "butchered" aspects, and everything else with both remakes, but in the end they're still the same damn games we all enjoy. And should be enjoying instead of being heated up over them. We should all just make that conclusion with both sets of remakes.

    So I agree that Fr/Lg=HGSS.

  14. #44
    Registered User Zynetic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Which is the better remake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Keldora Dragon View Post
    Fr/Lg is no less a glorified port as HGSS and the other way round. Seriously! Strip away all the features, "butchered" aspects, and everything else with both remakes, but in the end they're still the same damn games we all enjoy. And should be enjoying instead of being heated up over them. We should all just make that conclusion with both sets of remakes.

    So I agree that Fr/Lg=HGSS.
    This is kind of what I was trying to say, but I tend to word everything wrong.
    So yeah, FR/LG = HG/SS. There haven't really been any major differences to the Pokemon games since R/B/Y, except minor little features that aren't particularly groundbreaking.
    Diryn.

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Which is the better remake?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott85 View Post
    FR/LG was still good for what it was, but there was more effort put into HGSS.
    That's what I think too, even though I haven't played these Johto remake games. Even though the original Johto games had more stuff than the original Kanto games, I still feel more stuff was put into these Johto remakes than the Kanto ones.

    But I'm not gonna say the Kanto ones were bad.

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