Thread: Anyone else disappointed at the loss of some useful TMs?

I'd just like to point out that, while Gen V got rid of TMs that I, and probably everyone else else, never used. I'm of course talking about Bullet Seed, Water Pulse, etc.

However with that we have the loss of some usable TMs. Of course, they can still be taught to a pokemon in Gen IV, then traded over to B/W, but this won't work on Gen V pokemon, or any older pokemon with a new special ability of egg move that would make you obtain in in Gen V. Here are the ones I'll miss most of all.

TM19 Giga Drain- had its power boosted to 75. I remember this move when it was used more, in the RSE era. I was hoping for it to make a comeback with its boosted power, but I guess not.
In its place we get Telekinesis, which apparently makes the target easier to hit for a few turns. Just a few. I fail to see the point, as Gravity can do this as well.

TM47 Steel Wing- Not exactly too concerned about Iron Tail's loss, since I didn't like the inaccuracy of that move. This one, though I won't miss it nearly as much as others, is still a half-decent Steel type move for some pokemon such as Empoleon. I bet none of you liked this move much, but I did. I more want to ask what Ankle Sweep is. Low kick variation? I have no clue. Probably not.

TM51 Roost- Oh yes. Roost. Now of course we can't give out beloved healing move to our favorite flying type pokemon. I probably am disappointed by this one the most. And its replacement in Side Change. Which I still don't know the effect of.

TM58 Endure- There goes the classic Endure/Salac/Reversal combo that was ruined by quick attacks anyway. Although, Freefall might actually be a usable attack, that is, if the target pokemon is not allowed to switch or anything on the second turn. So it's like Fly without the ability to switch or Protect? Okay.

TM59 Dragon Pulse- Looks like Special dragons are left without their "reliable special STAB" and have to resort to Draco Meteor for the most part. I did get a few uses out of this move. But Devastate, isn't that that 30-power move that only destroys the opponent's berry? Knock Off removes the item completely, this move should do more than just destroy a BERRY.

TM72 Avalanche- was a great move for pokemon like Swampert, among many others. a potential 120 BP Physical Ice attack was what we needed, now its replaced by an electric U-turn...which actually could be useful, possibly for an electric pokemon to switch out on Gyarados and avoid getting hit by Earthquake, should Gyarados survive the attack.

TM76 Stealth Rock- While I mostly dislike the loss of good TMs, I am SO GLAD Stealth Rock is gone. Hopefully now it won't be spammed so much, and will be used only of pokemon that learn it by level-up or breeding. I don't know about you, but this was the move I hated more than any other move, after it knocked some of my favorite pokemon like Charizard out of competitive play.

TM79 Dark Pulse- When I thought Sazando would have a good Special STAB. Oh well. Goodbye to special STAB for anyone who doesn't learn this by level up. and its replace, Ice Breath? Does that say "always scores a critical hit"? Then what's the point? The power is only 40, so that's even a max BP of 80. Ice Beam is more than that, and can achieve 190 with a critical hit. You could argue that "critical hits hit through defense boosts" but I'm not sold on this one.

TM82 Sleep Talk- even though I didn't use this much, I would have liked to. This will hit competitive battling hard, along with Roost and Stealth Rock's loss. Its replacement is Dragon Tail, which is like Roar + relatively weak attack. But only 90% accuracy. Then again, it probably doesn't have reduced priority like Roar does, so aside from the imperfect accuracy it may be useful.

And that's all. If anyone else has any likes or dislikes about the TM change, please feel free to add.

I'm actually happy about the fact that Stealth Rock is gone. True, it can be transferred over via 4th gen Pokemon knowing the move,, but I found it too annoying in competitive play.

Most of the other changes are not that good though. Losing Dragon Pulse is a shame, as is Roost. Sleep Talk can at least be bred on, if you use sets with that move. Never used Giga Drain, but only because of the low pp.

I am absolutely glad Stealth Rock is gone. Dark Pulse is a loss. Others, I'm "Meh" about.

Also, Dragon Tail does have reduced priority.

I'll miss Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, Roost, and Giga Drain. All very useful.

Originally Posted by Darkarceus11

I'll miss Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, Roost, and Giga Drain. All very useful.

As will I.

Maybe they could have a move tutor that teaches these moves later on the third installment, especially avalanche.

Dark/dragon pulse I will miss. But, I'll get used to a whole new plethora of moves for my special attackers to learn.

Roost is going to be a huge loss for the birds :/

I do miss moves like Dragon Pulse, Dark Pulse, and even Water Pulse (I loved teaching it to an Ice-type like Glalie or Froslass, or even Pokemon like Lucario). Giga Drain is somewhat of a loss, but more so now that it had a power boost (although Drain Punch got both a power boost and increased PP, so that's a substitute for me). I am very happy Stealth Rock is gone. I never used it, and since I've never really done competitive battling, never really had to face it. But it was a pain, especially since it could put a real crimp in two of my favorite types: Fire and Ice. Roost was meh in my books, since I rarely used Flying-types unless I either liked them or liked their typing (such as Gliscor or the new Wargle). I do miss Steel Wing, though, I used it often and loved it, and it'll make teaching a Flying-type a move to trump a weakness or two harder (at least Wargle somewhat compensates for it with Superpower, but only if you have the Encourage/Brute Force ability, whichever it is). Yeah, they did get rid of a number of useful moves, and they will be sorely missed. Hopefully, if there are other Move Tutors in this game, they can teach those moves, which will somewhat make up for the loss.

Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, and Stealth Rock were an unfortunate loss.

Man hating on the stealth rock, I am sad it's gone, now it's got to be breed I guess. I don't get why so many people hated it as a TM?? Just because it is gone in tm forme doesn't mean it is gone completely and means that I will still be a part of entry hazards used in the 5th gen metagame. The whole point of it was to make the game harder and if you don't like stealth rock or any other entry hazard then you bring a rapid spinner to help out.

Now roost being gone is not cool!!

Originally Posted by Green

Dark Pulse, Dragon Pulse, and Stealth Rock were an unfortunate loss.

I agree, except on Stealth Rock; that move is annoying as hell. Now we don't have a reliable Dark/Dragon Special move...

Did everyone forget about PokéShifter?

It's just the new Pokémon that can't get these TMs. Old Pokémon can just be transferred, already knowing the moves. You'll still see Stealth Rock a lot around.

E: Okay, now that I researched it a bit more, it seems that people are saying it requires all TM moves to be deleted first. There's a little ambiguity to those posts but I think that's what they're saying. So disregard this.

To sum it up:
No Stealth Rock: I'm no competitive battler, but a big yay anyways.
Everything else that's not Natural Gift or something like that: Ah shit. Especially where Dragon Pulse, Dark Pulse, and Roost are concerned.

It would be better if the new TMs weren't crap. Sure, stuff like Wild Bolt, Claw Sharpen, Cheer Up, Nitro Charge, Freefall, Psycho Shock, and Volt Change could be useful, but most of the others suck.

...Then again that's a fairly long list. Mabye we didn't get off too badly on new TMs after all.
Though I wish they could've replaced more of the useless TMs from the last 2 gens instead of the useful ones.
And did anyone notice that most of the TMs sold in Celadon in HGSS are the ones that were replaced?
Guess GameFreak was trying to make it easier on those who wanted to transfer those moves.

Stealth Rock being removed from the charts is actually an improvement, if you ask me. The cost of getting it (in HGSS) is much lower than the effect it gave competitive battling. No longer are Rock-weak Pokemon as useful, and the limited distribution in Generation V is a good thing, I would say. Imagine what would happen if Goruggo has access to this move...

Roost is probably the move of response to Stealth Rock's impact on Flying types, hence its equal availability with Stealth Rock. However, Stealth Rock's dethroned TM status probably gave it less reason for the move to stand on its own, and once again, its distribution is limited to certain Pokemon. It could be good too, because Gliscor got Poison Heal as a Dream World ability, and Roost will make it too useful. Some might not miss it, like Ho-oh, as it can learn Recover, which to it, is better than Roost.

Of course, some moves might as well be easily available, like Giga Drain, Dragon Pulse, Dark Pulse and Avalanche, because they provide some Pokemon with some needed type coverage. I am not sure why Sleep Talk and Endure needed to be hit, but I guess in Endure's case, it's hard to use with Sandstorm around. I can see these moves more deserving of a price to pay to learn, unlike the TMs we have now.

All in all, I will gladly see Stealth Rock and Roost go.

Originally Posted by UltimateSephiroth

Did everyone forget about PokéShifter?

It's just the new Pokémon that can't get these TMs. Old Pokémon can just be transferred, already knowing the moves. You'll still see Stealth Rock a lot around.

E: Okay, now that I researched it a bit more, it seems that people are saying it requires all TM moves to be deleted first. There's a little ambiguity to those posts but I think that's what they're saying. So disregard this.

I think they mean HM moves. So what you said still counts.