Why are Red and Steven still referred to as champions? - Page 2

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Thread: Why are Red and Steven still referred to as champions?

  1. #16
    DAAAAARLING Zalde's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are Red and Steven still referred to as champions?

    And wouldn't that also refer to Blue?

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    I shot a god Ryuutakeshi's Avatar Social Media Editor
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    Default Re: Why are Red and Steven still referred to as champions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somari View Post
    "The Champion from Pallet Town", eh? That doesn't sound so specific, not like Steven. It's just saying he was one of the Champion and hails from PT.
    Not specific? That's like the most blatant "Exactly what it says on the tin" I've ever seen.

    Evil Figment (7:59:44 PM): Ryuu, however shakily you started, I've got to hand it to you that you earned my respect the hard way.

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    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are Red and Steven still referred to as champions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Somari View Post
    "The Champion from Pallet Town", eh? That doesn't sound so specific, not like Steven. It's just saying he was one of the Champion and hails from PT.
    Pallet Town is a small place, and according to the Map card description, it is a fairly new town. Sure, Oak may have been a champion in his day, but he has a new title now that he is more commonly known with, same as Blue who's official title is Gym Leader despite being a former champion himself. I doubt many people even know he was Champion considering how short-lived his reign was, and I doubt he'd be bragging about that.

    Not to mention that there was no mention of a former Champion before Blue and the dialogue from Lance talking about how Red was so close to becoming Champion but someone got there right before makes it seem like the Elite 4 of Kanto had no champion for awhile.

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    Gym Apprentice Data_Error's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are Red and Steven still referred to as champions?

    It's probably some mentality along the lines of "once a champion, always a champion". Blue probably isn't referred to as such due to a combination of his active title being "Gym Leader" and that his very short reign isn't something that people remember or he brags about.

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    Devil Lobster Man Ranger Jack Walker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are Red and Steven still referred to as champions?

    Ex-champions may still be referred to as Champions

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    Pokémon Capture Expert paperfairy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are Red and Steven still referred to as champions?

    Red: In the Viridian Trainer House, a trainer says this: "I bet the Champion from Pallet Town went to all the cities and towns in Kanto."

    Blue: His championship was very shortlived. Interestingly enough, the guy at the Viridian Gym enterance says this: "The Gym Leader is a guy who battled the Champion three years ago. He’s no pushover."

    He fails to mention that Blue was also Champion. Blue and one other seem to be the only people who knows he was Champion. "Who are you? My name’s Blue.
    I was once the Kanto Champion. Although it was short-lived thanks to Red..." The Schoolboy on Route 36 calls you and says this:
    "Do you know Blue? He’s Professor Oak’s grandson and a former Pokémon League Champion! He’s one super Pokémon Trainer! See you later!"

    Ethan/Lyra: Mr. Pokemon,Blue, and Oak ALL refer to him/her as the Johto Champion, as opposed to "Champpion from New Bark", even though Kanto and Johto share a league. Lance calls you the League Champion. Interesting.

    Steven: He introduces himself as the Champ of Hoenn, not a former. "My name is Steven. The Champion from the Hoenn region. Have we met...before? That’s not possible."

    It makes me think about the legitimacy of Emerald being canon, and if it is, I then wonder if perhaps he and Wallace share the title. In the Special manga, he gives up the title to Wallace, so I assume he does so in Emerald. as to further pursue his interests. He's still Champion.
    Steven is also MUCH more humble than Blue, who admits he is an ex-Champ, so perhaps Steven indeed is just "taking a break" when Wallace is in charge. I wish I had the Emerald script. :/


    EDIT: This events also transpire three years after Wallace is Champion. It's entirely possible that Steven simply took the title BACK.

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    Devil Lobster Man Ranger Jack Walker's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are Red and Steven still referred to as champions?

    I remember Wallace saying in Emerald that he was the Gym Leader of Sootopolis but something came up and his mentor took over. The thing that came up probably is that Steven got bored and wanted to pursue his hobby of rock collecting or whatever. Wallace was just a temporary champion.

    But this still doesn't explain what happened too Brandan/May.

    Maybe during the events of HGSS, Steven took over as Champion after Brendan/May defeated Wallace because Brendan/May is training at the Seafloor cavern like Red is training at Mt. Silver.

  8. #23
    Time Traveler Silktree's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are Red and Steven still referred to as champions?

    Even in Emerald Steven is referred to as the Champion by a Dragon Tamer in Meteor Falls. The fact that HGSS Steven still refers to himself as the Hoenn Champion does not contradict Emerald.

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperfairy View Post
    Steven is also MUCH more humble than Blue, who admits he is an ex-Champ, so perhaps Steven indeed is just "taking a break" when Wallace is in charge. I wish I had the Emerald script. :/
    Is he? Blue acknowledges that he lost to Red and clearly looks up to him, whereas Steven doesn't mention May/Brendan and only seems to be subconsciously reminded of them when he sees Ethan/Lyra. I'm against remaking Ruby and Sapphire because there are better ways to revisit Hoenn, but I almost wish I could beat Steven again as May/Brendan just for that.

    Here's for Wally being the Hoenn Champion in the hypothetical sequels; that's what he wanted in the original games and he clearly deserves it.

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    Pokémon Capture Expert paperfairy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are Red and Steven still referred to as champions?

    Thank you for that clarification in Dragon Falls.

    Blue only mentions Red because he has sour grapes. Respect? Yes. Looks up to? You're pushing it.

    Steven humbleness - I only mention that in reference to to RSE, where he doesn't run around bragging about being the Champion, where as it's in Blue's introduction. Steven sees himself no more than a simple rock collector who happens to train powerful Steel types - perhaps heir to the Devon Corp AT MOST. Blue seems to see himself, both in GSC and HGSS as the ex-champ/Gym Leader of Viridian.

    Off topic, but I'd only want to revisit Hoenn if it were in the same time-frame as HGSS/DPPt - three years after the Rayquaza incident. Wally for Champ! :D

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    Default Re: Why are Red and Steven still referred to as champions?

    Peperfairy, where have you been all this time? Thank you for laying out all the facts in an orderly manner.

    Evil Figment (7:59:44 PM): Ryuu, however shakily you started, I've got to hand it to you that you earned my respect the hard way.

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    Time Traveler Silktree's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are Red and Steven still referred to as champions?

    Steven seemed to have grown a little vain after having lost to May/Brendan, in an almost reserve effect to what happened to Blue. What a strange fellow.

    In addition to Wally becoming the Champion, NPC Brendan would have his wish from Emerald's Match Call fulfilled, which is to say that he would become the Leader of the new Gym in Slateport. I don't believe NPC May said that, but I need to look at Emerald's script to confirm this. If I'm right, May is the canon player character and her whereabouts is a mystery - just like Steven said in Emerald after she defeated him: "And where will you go from here? ... Fufufu, even I couldn't tell you that."

  12. #27
    Pokémon Capture Expert paperfairy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are Red and Steven still referred to as champions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryuutakesh! View Post
    Peperfairy, where have you been all this time? Thank you for laying out all the facts in an orderly manner.
    Glad to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unown Lord View Post
    Steven seemed to have grown a little vain after having lost to May/Brendan, in an almost reserve effect to what happened to Blue. What a strange fellow.

    In addition to Wally becoming the Champion, NPC Brendan would have his wish from Emerald's Match Call fulfilled, which is to say that he would become the Leader of the new Gym in Slateport. I don't believe NPC May said that, but I need to look at Emerald's script to confirm this. If I'm right, May is the canon player character and her whereabouts is a mystery - just like Steven said in Emerald after she defeated him: "And where will you go from here? ... Fufufu, even I couldn't tell you that."
    This is a whole thread in itself. ^_^

    1) Yes, I'll agree he's become vain. Silly Steven.
    2) Damn it, I'm upset I never played through Emerald. I didn't even know about the Gym in Slateport.(I've played through Hoenn TWICE, really. :/)
    3) Do you have evidence for May being canon? I always assumed it was unknown (just like we don't SEEM to have evidence for either Lyra or Ethan, but I suspect Black/White will solve both of the aforementioned).
    4) Do you have any scripts you could send my way? I used to have the DP one you gave me, but I lost it, and I'd actually like to read Platinum's (another game I missed. -_-) and Emerald's.

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    Time Traveler Silktree's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are Red and Steven still referred to as champions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paperfairy View Post
    2) Damn it, I'm upset I never played through Emerald. I didn't even know about the Gym in Slateport.(I've played through Hoenn TWICE, really. :/)
    3) Do you have evidence for May being canon? I always assumed it was unknown (just like we don't SEEM to have evidence for either Lyra or Ethan, but I suspect Black/White will solve both of the aforementioned).
    The only evidence I have is Brendan having more interesting references as an NPC than May does. May would suffer as the canon Birch child, whereas Brendan would have some material to work with, including the Slateport Gym reference. Again, I need to look at the script for more examples.

    4) Do you have any scripts you could send my way? I used to have the DP one you gave me, but I lost it, and I'd actually like to read Platinum's (another game I missed. -_-) and Emerald's.
    I don't recall sending you the DP script - aren't you thinking of Zhen Lin? Sadly, I only have the Colosseum, Crystal and HGSS scripts saved at my computer. Meowth346 used to have a page with the Match Call text, which is why I remember the Slateport tidbit.

  14. #29
    Pokémon Capture Expert paperfairy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why are Red and Steven still referred to as champions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Unown Lord View Post
    The only evidence I have is Brendan having more interesting references as an NPC than May does. May would suffer as the canon NPC, whereas Brendan would have some material to work with, including the Slateport Gym reference. Again, I need to look at the script again.
    Makes sense. I'll take that.


    Quote Originally Posted by Unown Lord View Post
    I don't recall sending you the DP script - aren't you thinking of Zhen Lin? Sadly, I only have the Colosseum, Crystal and HGSS scripts saved at my computer. Meowth346 used to have a page with the Match Call text, which is why I remember the Slateport tidbit.
    Zhen Lin... yeah. I always mix you guys up (and I think I've done this before in the open too. >_<) Could you PM me a link to the Colosseum one? Man, I miss Meowth. :/

    don't like something? fix it. stop complaining about it.

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    Default Re: Why are Red and Steven still referred to as champions?

    Quote Originally Posted by FlamingKratos View Post
    Edit: Honestly i would love it if they programed it into the game so that you must go to the E4 and defend your championship from on coming challengers. that would be idea of heaven
    That's something I've been wanting in the games for a while now.

    Whatever PokeGear/Nav/Poketch replacement Gen V has, you could get a call on it that requests you show up ASAP at random intervals when someone gets through the E4 and wants to challenge you. There'd be a special area behind the E4 building with a Pokemon Center, that only the Champion can access and fly to. From there, you could enter into the Hall of Fame room from a hidden back door, and then proceed to face whoever it is that's challenging you. If you win, you maintain your title; and if not, you'd lose it and need to challenge the E4 and new Champion to try and regain it.

    The challengers could be randomly selected from among all the Pokemon trainers you encountered in your journey through the region... with their Pokemon appropriately levelled up and trained, of course. And with your Rival thrown in for good measure, as well, every now and then.

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