sigh, listen, I really don't think that dark types are evil.

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Thread: sigh, listen, I really don't think that dark types are evil.

  1. #1
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    Default sigh, listen, I really don't think that dark types are evil.

    I mean, really. Dark types simply cannot be evil.

    I mean, it seemed to be canon that there is no such thing as an evil pokemon (It was mentioned countless times in the Anime that there isn't an evil pokemon. And I THINK that it was mentioned in the games as well, or at the very least implied.). If there were evil pokemon, then Ekans and Koffing lied to Meowth in regards to their being no evil pokemon. Plus, many of the "Dark" types were portrayed to be somewhat misunderstood and all that.

    For those of you who will try to counter me, I just want to give counterevidence to your counterexamples.

    One. Meowth. Ok, yes, he may have tried to refute their beliefs in regards to their being no evil pokemon by saying he himself is evil, but I think that deep down he wasn't evil (Heck, his reaction to not being followed didn't seem close to evil, since if he really felt he was evil, he would have tortured Ekans and Koffing to follow him even though they won't obey anyone but their masters, especially not a pokemon of their level.), Plus, he seemed genuinely horrified whenever several pokemon are being harmed (for instance, when Giovanni was going to torture the cloned pokemon, as well as Ash and Co., and especially Mewtwo in "Mewtwo Returns", he could have easily not given a care about it. But Meowth was genuinely horrified by his Boss's actions, even going AS FAR as to go against his boss and trying to save Mewtwo, and all the other Pokemon.)

    Two. the snack thief Teddiursa. Look, it may have stolen food, but it most likely needed it to survive (heck, it could have been smiling because it finally has something to eat.), also, about the placing the blame on some other pokemon, how is that any different compared to how Pikachu allowed Porygon to become the scapegoat of the little stint that Pika was responsible for? should we label it as an "evil" Pokemon as well?

    Three. the Ancient Mew card. Look, the card shouldn't really count since the only "hint" it gave to it being "evil" was the way the question was worded. If we reworded it, it most likely won't have been labeled as evil.

    Four. Spiritomb. Look, it was angered that it was sealed away, and most likely never knew how to control it's power. Plus, many pokemon have attacked civilizations and were still labeled as a non-evil pokemon. Take Rayquaza, for example. I mean, it DID attack LaRousse city (I know it was trying to defeat Deoxys because it percieved it as a threat, but it's actions placed innocent bystandards in grave danger.), and yet I don't recall anyone labeling it as an evil pokemon. Heck, MOST of the Legendaries have harmed society as a whole, should we label ALL of them as being evil as well?

    Anyways, that's all for now.

  2. #2
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Though I dislike how you present your arguement, I do share the same sentiments in that Dark pokemon are not evil.

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    what about darkrai? he gives little kids nightmares for no reason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darkly_the_flygon View Post
    what about darkrai? he gives little kids nightmares for no reason
    Was it any different than when the 3 Birds were attacking each other for no reason, almost destroying the planet? Was it any different compared to Manaphy switching Ash and Jackie's bodies just because he willed it?

    If not, then please don't say that he is an evil pokemon (Besides, the Nightmares COULD have been a defense mechanism, just like Manaphy's Heart Swap ability.)

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    Nothing of interest here Perxio's Avatar
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    I think it's summed up by Houndoom's Special Delivery. You don't even have to see the episode. Very short description: dark pokemon protects baby pokemon. Longer=a loyal, helpful dark pokemon protects a lost, stranger baby pokemon and goes out of its way to keep it safe, despite having a job to do to help his farmer trainer- and STILL does the job while keeping said baby pokemon safe, having nothing to gain by doing so.

    Granted, one can argue the houndoom was evil by protecting Togepi/evil leech, but that's another story.

    Even if it was a completely pointless filler, I think it's a great example of another side of pokemon besides competitions.

    I'm not sure about the idea that NO pokemon is evil, though the concept of what evil is, to the point of whether it exists at all or if everyone has at least some form or potential of it, has been up in the air for centuries, thousands of years. Though it would go without saying that type doesn't determine it, but some types could be more prone to being mischievous or even harmful, just not comprehending how much damage it's doing. I know many ghost pokemon have really dark pokedex entries, where they thoroughly enjoy harassing or harming. Though that can't be the case, because we've seen perfectly friendly ghost pokemon- Marina's Misdreavus, for example.

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    the ultimate fire primate flaming infernape's Avatar
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    I think Darkrai was intended to be an evil pokemon, and if it was, then that was screwed up when our first impressions of it was in movie 10, where it was percieved as good. So now I'm stuck viewing Darkrai as an awesome dark-type who is only misunderstood. :P

    As for dark-types, definetly not evil. Naughty, mischievous, and occassionally misfortunate, yes, but not evil. Heck, my Darkrai is mischievous. XD (pokemon traits, gotta love 'em)

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralli View Post
    I think it's summed up by Houndoom's Special Delivery. You don't even have to see the episode. Very short description: dark pokemon protects baby pokemon. Longer=a loyal, helpful dark pokemon protects a lost, stranger baby pokemon and goes out of its way to keep it safe, despite having a job to do to help his farmer trainer- and STILL does the job while keeping said baby pokemon safe, having nothing to gain by doing so.
    I haven't seen that episode, but, yeah, that proves my point as well.

    Granted, one can argue the houndoom was evil by protecting Togepi/evil leech, but that's another story.
    Actually, no offense, but I really don't see how Togepi even deserves that title. I mean, Misty's didn't become the complete opposite of herself (If she did, she wouldn't have yelled all the time, or even get angered.)

    Even if it was a completely pointless filler, I think it's a great example of another side of pokemon besides competitions.
    Well, as I have said, I haven't watched that episode, but I'm not sure that it would count as a filler, since it DID bring about a important piece of trivia: Pikachu and Togepi are currently the only ones of Ash's group who has seen a Raikou.

    I'm not sure about the idea that NO pokemon is evil, though the concept of what evil is, to the point of whether it exists at all or if everyone has at least some form or potential of it, has been up in the air for centuries, thousands of years. Though it would go without saying that type doesn't determine it, but some types could be more prone to being mischievous or even harmful, just not comprehending how much damage it's doing. I know many ghost pokemon have really dark pokedex entries, where they thoroughly enjoy harassing or harming. Though that can't be the case, because we've seen perfectly friendly ghost pokemon- Marina's Misdreavus, for example.
    Well, way back in the the episode "Island of the Giant Pokemon", Meowth tries to convince Ekans and Koffing to follow his orders, but they refuse, saying they can only obey their human masters. Meowth even tried to convince them to follow him because, to paraphrase "there all bad guys here", THEN Ekans and Koffing go into the whole explaination of the fact that there is no such thing as an evil pokemon and all that. Plus, Ash actually mentions the exact same thing to Gary when Gary was beaten by Giovanni and Mewtwo.

    Also, I really don't believe pokedex entries unless they actually prove themselves either in the games (Main or, well, "Side" games/Spinoffs, your pick), or at the VERY least in the Anime. Like for example, I don't believe that Regice is actually impregnable to even magma as the Pokedex says because if you use a fire blast, it goes down just like any other Ice type. (I don't think this was covered in the anime [Yet, anyways, who knows what the 11th movie might bring into the picture.], but let's just assume for the time being that it is that, just to be on the safe side.).

    @flaming infernape: I don't think Darkrai was even intended to be an evil pokemon from the beginning, especially how they are all "There's NO such thing as an evil pokemon" mantra in the Anime at least, and possibly in all mediums at best. It's giving people nightmares? Simple, it felt threatened and used a defense mechanism to evade the threat. It's no different than how Manaphy uses Heart Swap on it's victims when trying to defend itself.

  8. #8
    Lost and Confused... MangaBottle's Avatar
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    I think 'dark' pokemon aren't 'evil', just 'emo'.
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    Sakaki drank in Pikachu series, that's why became so... happy in first Movie Adaptation.
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    You mean the shots where it looks like he's channeling the Joker?

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    Yeah i dont really think dark type pokemon are too, however, i do think some pokemon could be evil if they wanted to.

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    A black and white world Blackjack Gabbiani's Avatar
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    I don't think dark types are evil out of kind, but I do think there can be evil pokemon.

    Also this
    since if he really felt he was evil, he would have tortured Ekans and Koffing to follow him even though they won't obey anyone but their masters
    and this
    when Giovanni was going to torture the cloned pokemon, as well as Ash and Co., and especially Mewtwo in "Mewtwo Returns", he could have easily not given a care about it. But Meowth was genuinely horrified by his Boss's actions, even going AS FAR as to go against his boss and trying to save Mewtwo, and all the other Pokemon
    make no sense. Not all evil is cut from the same cloth. Just because someone is opposed to one evil action doesn't make them not evil themselves. I mean heck, DOMINO was opposed to Giovanni torturing Mewtwo, and she's pretty evil.

  11. #11
    The Golden Boy The Pig King's Avatar
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    I agree with you in that Dark Type Pokemon don't seem evil, just misunderstood. That's what I really liked about movie 10, the writers didn't think, "Oh, it's black, it's evil. Let's make it a villain!" They made it seem good, honest, and misunderstood, by both viewers and characters. And it didn't do what annoys me about the spinoff games and some fanfiction, taking the generic, cliche route out and making Darkrai the generic villain.

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  12. #12
    Weirdo, and proud of it!! Yoshasaur's Avatar
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    Yeah... I definetly don't think dark types are evil. Some of them (like Absol) are pretty much misunderstood.
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    this is a toughie, it really depends on what you feel is true canon. I like to go with the main games, as they are what the anime/manga/spinoffs are based on in the first place.
    and if you look at the games, some of these 'misunderstood' dark types are pretty damn evil. Take darkrai for example. the first time the game hints at it is when you have to save the sailors son. why? because darkrai put him into a nightmare induced coma for no immediately obvious reason other than for its own amusement. and then again when you activate the event, it tries the same trick on you again, but seems to fail, reveals its location, and gets caught.(tell me if I got any of this wrong.)

    pokemon can be pretty evil, but I feel its more of a natural instinct than calculated. that is why you can still catch them and train them to be more friendly and tame.
    also, I recall prof.Oak saying something along the lines of "Don't go out there! Its too dangerous!"

  14. #14
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gohansan View Post
    this is a toughie, it really depends on what you feel is true canon. I like to go with the main games, as they are what the anime/manga/spinoffs are based on in the first place.
    and if you look at the games, some of these 'misunderstood' dark types are pretty damn evil. Take darkrai for example. the first time the game hints at it is when you have to save the sailors son. why? because darkrai put him into a nightmare induced coma for no immediately obvious reason other than for its own amusement. and then again when you activate the event, it tries the same trick on you again, but seems to fail, reveals its location, and gets caught.(tell me if I got any of this wrong.)
    Though I don't believe that dark types are in nature, evil, I do believe that some Pokemon can be evil, or atleast influenced by evil. Or what is mroe likely, is that everyonen in the Pokemon worl runss cared and anything they think is scary is evil, much liek our world.

    Darkrai is the Nightmare Pokemon, it is in its nature to do what it does. it is likely that it, for some reason or another has to do this to survive. Perhaps it gains nutrition from these nightmares.

    As for it specifically targetting the main character, it obviously saw it as a threat to its survival, since it is now in possession of the Lunar feather. If something is threatening it, then it must take care of the threat.

    Also to quote Socrates, "if man knew what was good, then he would do it"

    It could be that man, and in this case Pokemon only do things that seem evil, because to them, it is perfectly justified. I'd expand more by giving examples, but I'll just go on a limb and assume you can think of them yourself.

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    I do not believe that Dark types are evil except Darkrai, although I am changing my mind on Darkrai.
    I have dodged many things, but that is not why I am a dodger. I just like wearing striped shirts.

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