Pokemon Wild Mass Guessing (WMG)--Bulbagarden Edition

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 22

Thread: Pokemon Wild Mass Guessing (WMG)--Bulbagarden Edition

  1. #1
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    12,171
    Blog Entries
    951

    Default Pokemon Wild Mass Guessing (WMG)--Bulbagarden Edition

    If you've been to TVTropes, you should be familiar with their WMG-page, so you know the drill. If not, explanation in the link. Short version, post random theories (no matter how wild) to try and fill in gaps in canon or fix inconsistencies within it.

    I'll start off:

    Porygon-Z in Oblivia's Past

    So here we have it, one of the strangest face-palm moments in Pokemon, the completely modern, and possibly not even well-known (due to possibly being an in-canon unofficial modification) Pokemon exists in the temple missions of Oblivia's past.

    Well, let's look at its dex-entry, its Platinum entry says that it was created to work in alternate dimensions, but did not work out as planned. It's method of evolution, the Dubios Disc is found in a Galactic hideout in Platinum, almost suggesting that this Pokemon was developed in an early attempt to find Dialga/Palkia , Pokemon which rule over time and space, in their respective dimensions.(and also suggesting that this may have been added to its backstory after specifically for Pt)

    Now we find Porygon-Z not only in the past, but in a completely different location from where it was first created. Keeping the previous points in mind there are a few possibilities:


    • Porygon-Z worked exactly as planned and entered Palkia and Dialga's dimension. This caused them to be separated from the normal space-time continuum of the Normal Dimension. They were attacked by Palkia and Dialga and those that managed to survive were actually scattered across many different dimensions and times, some landing in Oblivia's past, others in other alternate continuities such as the PMD series. The ones that were sent to Oblivia's past survived because the Steelhead saw the potential in using these creatures as weapons and took care of them. This particular explanation doesn't require Ranger to be in the same continuity, but at the same time, does not matter.
    • Porygon-Z wasn't a failure and actually traveled between alternate dimensions, but not to the dimension that Team Galactic planned, but wound up in Oblivia's past


    It's possible what enabled it to travel to alien dimensions were damaged during the attack against Dialga and Palkia in the first possibility, and in the second one, the Steelhead's control over the Pokemon would prevent them from running away.

    (pssssh so much for Bulbapedia claiming Celebi to be the only possible explanation)
    Last edited by The Outrage; 14th January 2011 at 07:01 PM.

  2. #2
    From Leyend to Myth Infinity Mk-II's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    In the wind
    Posts
    1,383
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default Re: Pokemon Wild Mass Guessing (WMG)--Bulbagarden Edition

    Given Porygon-Z's instability and erratic behavior, I say it's very possible that the problem with it is that the dimensional travel is pretty much out of control. (Which I think it'd link it with Giratina... in fact, it could be possible it was intended to look for it more than anything else, at least if we consider only Platinum as the canon)
    So under normal circunstances they can't travel at will, but something might still trigger it.

    As in the Distorsion World time and space don't make sense/don't exist/whatever, it's safe to assume that travelling through dimensions also enables it to travel through time and space in the same dimension.

    (And Celebi is a Time Lord and the GS Ball is actually its TARDIS which needs to stay at the Ilex Shrine to hold the purity of the forest and do the time-travel thing. Not related with many other pokémon at all.)

  3. #3
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    12,171
    Blog Entries
    951

    Default Re: Pokemon Wild Mass Guessing (WMG)--Bulbagarden Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinity Mk-II View Post
    Given Porygon-Z's instability and erratic behavior, I say it's very possible that the problem with it is that the dimensional travel is pretty much out of control. (Which I think it'd link it with Giratina... in fact, it could be possible it was intended to look for it more than anything else, at least if we consider only Platinum as the canon)
    So under normal circunstances they can't travel at will, but something might still trigger it.

    As in the Distorsion World time and space don't make sense/don't exist/whatever, it's safe to assume that travelling through dimensions also enables it to travel through time and space in the same dimension.
    Nothing's saying it traveled through Distortion World, but that's the basic idea, its not as if all dimensions are running on the same time line.

    (And Celebi is a Time Lord and the GS Ball is actually its TARDIS which needs to stay at the Ilex Shrine to hold the purity of the forest and do the time-travel thing. Not related with many other pokémon at all.)
    :B

    Should have put disclaimer on Time Lord and TARDIS theories

  4. #4
    Just Browsing Around Akimbo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    The Land of Continuous Rain
    Posts
    356
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default Re: Pokemon Wild Mass Guessing (WMG)--Bulbagarden Edition

    interesting theory outrage, and i think it is quite possible since i have none of my own,
    anyways i didnt enev notice that porygon z was in oblivia's past so this is the first time ive heard about it.

  5. #5
    My Sword Hand Twitches! Owain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Gender
    Genderless
    Location
    Kalos
    Posts
    3,024
    Blog Entries
    67

    Follow Owain on Tumblr

    Default Re: Pokemon Wild Mass Guessing (WMG)--Bulbagarden Edition

    i was always wondering the same, it made no sense at all for Porygon-Z to be in Oblivia's Past unless it can/could travel through Time/Space/Dimensions

  6. #6
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    12,171
    Blog Entries
    951

    Default Re: Pokemon Wild Mass Guessing (WMG)--Bulbagarden Edition

    You know, you guys are supposed to make theories too rather than just comment on them >:

  7. #7
    My Sword Hand Twitches! Owain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Gender
    Genderless
    Location
    Kalos
    Posts
    3,024
    Blog Entries
    67

    Follow Owain on Tumblr

    Default Re: Pokemon Wild Mass Guessing (WMG)--Bulbagarden Edition

    ^^ mine is the same as yours, so it doesn't matter if i post it agin but with different words.

  8. #8
    The Darkest Magikarp Karpi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    932
    Blog Entries
    17

    Default Re: Pokemon Wild Mass Guessing (WMG)--Bulbagarden Edition

    Oh this is my favorite thing to do in pokemon...

    We have Team Aqua/Magma's backup plan that involves capturing the Regis (link in signature)

    This is like my one brilliant idea in the world of pokemon. During the RSE games we see the teams telling Wailmer to jump out of the water and stealing a submarine that was intended to find Relicanth.

    Well, what if they were actually training the Wailmer to evolve and then they would have the pokemon needed to open the Sealed Chamber!



  9. #9
    From Leyend to Myth Infinity Mk-II's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Gender
    Female
    Location
    In the wind
    Posts
    1,383
    Blog Entries
    7

    Default Re: Pokemon Wild Mass Guessing (WMG)--Bulbagarden Edition

    Ok, I see a few flaws in that theory... (Namely that I don't think Aqua was looking for anything but Kyogre) but it just brought an interesting point to me:

    The submarine was intended by the researchers to find about the Regis.

    Sure, it's said that's to research underwater pokémon... but, given the legends from Pacifidlog surrounding Hoenn's sea, and the proximity of the Sealed Chamber to Slateport... not to mention it is able to cross the strong currents between these towns. (As Aqua reached Lilycove very easily) It wouldn't be farfetched to think they wanted to look for something in that area. Perhaps the Regis is stretching it, but surely they wanted to see at least the pokémon that would be in that area, and they would've found about the cave.
    Last edited by Infinity Mk-II; 13th January 2011 at 07:17 PM.

  10. #10
    The Darkest Magikarp Karpi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    932
    Blog Entries
    17

    Default Re: Pokemon Wild Mass Guessing (WMG)--Bulbagarden Edition

    Yes! It becomes more interesting when you think of it that way...

    The researchers would then become kind of a third "Team" in a way, as they are after the Regi pokemon, but you would never suspect them!

    Brilliance.



  11. #11
    needs a new avatar Shiny Staraptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Ireland
    Posts
    1,111
    Blog Entries
    142

    Default Re: Pokemon Wild Mass Guessing (WMG)--Bulbagarden Edition

    Got one.

    So you may or may not know about Honey Gather. Only reason you wouldn't is because Combee the only one with the ability. In the description, it says that the Pokémon may gather honey from somewhere. Basically a more useless version of Pickup. But wait. It says the Pokémon gathers Honey from somewhere. After a small bit of thinking, I decided that the most likely somewhere it could gather Honey from is the Flower Paradise. It's the most logical explanation, for DPPT at least. Of course, it could easily be Floroma Town. Or perhaps there is a Combee Hive in every Honey Tree, and Combee just goes to the nearest one and collects some. I'm still thinking about how such a lightweight Pokémon could carry that jar full of Honey. Ideas?
    Quote Originally Posted by Neoflare
    star i have your eevee
    Quote Originally Posted by Light Yagami
    IF YOU EVER WANT TO SEE IT AGAIN, COME TO ... AVENUE
    Y Friend Code: 2578-3150-3027

  12. #12
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    12,171
    Blog Entries
    951

    Default Re: Pokemon Wild Mass Guessing (WMG)--Bulbagarden Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandile View Post
    Got one.

    So you may or may not know about Honey Gather. Only reason you wouldn't is because Combee the only one with the ability. In the description, it says that the Pokémon may gather honey from somewhere. Basically a more useless version of Pickup. But wait. It says the Pokémon gathers Honey from somewhere. After a small bit of thinking, I decided that the most likely somewhere it could gather Honey from is the Flower Paradise. It's the most logical explanation, for DPPT at least. Of course, it could easily be Floroma Town. Or perhaps there is a Combee Hive in every Honey Tree, and Combee just goes to the nearest one and collects some. I'm still thinking about how such a lightweight Pokémon could carry that jar full of Honey. Ideas?
    How is the Flower paradise the most logical explanation for DPPt? Anywhere that has flowers within your proximity is more logical, and that they make the honey inside themselves (you know, being honey combs).

  13. #13
    Registered User Orion-Sama's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Goldenrod City
    Posts
    898
    Blog Entries
    6

    Default Re: Pokemon Wild Mass Guessing (WMG)--Bulbagarden Edition

    OK. I have one I've been focusing on for a long time.

    Is there a relation between Shadow Pokémon in Orre and the Shadow Crystal in Almia?

    As anyone that played Colosseum, XD and Shadows of Almia should know, both Cipher's idea behind Shadow Pokémon, and Blake Hall's plan with the Shadow Crystal have subtle similarities. I'd go as far as saying both methods used the same source (The Shadow Crystal), but applied them differently.

    Shadow Pokémon, as described in Cipher documents and by Orre's characters, are Pokémon that got the doors to their hearts artificially shut to turn them into fearsome battle machines. The method is never unveiled. I did notice throughout the game that in both the Shadow Pokémon Lab, and in the Cipher Key Lair, there's a purplish gleam of sorts where Shadow Pokémon are "made". I mean the conveyor belt in Cipher Key Lair mostly, where those boxes where the Pokémon are supposedly in have a purplish stone above them. I faintly remember something like that in Colosseum's Shadow Lab, but there's a lot of lights there, so I might be wrong. I might even be wrong about the conveyor belt, but even if I am, it doesn't detracts from the theory.

    In Shadows of Almia, it's made clear that the Gigaremo units, and subsequently, the Miniremo and the Incredible Machine, exist to hypnotize Pokémon and make them do Dim Sun's bidding. Blake Hall distinctly mentions using all Pokémon in Almia as an army among all his big ambitions. The Shadow Crystal is black and irradiates a purplish aura, and all the shards in the Chroma Ruins were purple. However, it's not so much these small things, but more the similarity of their effect in Pokémon which makes me believe this:

    1. Both methods prevent Pokémon from having empathy with humans.
    Before you get the Vatonage Styler, any Pokémon you try to befriend when a Gigaremo is active, and any Miniremo-controlled Pokémon you befriend, escape right after the Capture ends. Shadow Pokémon are artificially created to be indifferent to humans, as seen when Makuhita attacks Wes. However, an opening is left in both cases. Pokémon in either situation are corrupted and enslaved. However, if they spend enough time with a human that cares about them, the blockade will wear off. This makes sense in the Orre games. As for Rangers, the Capture Styler is a device created to convey a temporary friendship, so a mere hypnosis inflicted by the Shadow Crystal is enough to make the Pokémon oblivious to this. All the Styler can do is dispel the hypnosis. Then, as the Vatonage Styler is finished, you can keep Pokémon under the hypnosis of the Incredible Machine, because the Tears of Princes have the capacity of neutralizing the Shadow Crystal's power.

    Both methods try to supersede the friendship humans and Pokémon can have, turning into their main advantage, as well as their main weakness. A human that's disposed to go the extra mile will be able to break those barricades to a Pokémon's heart by spending enough time with them and looking after them. As for the Vatonage Styler, it's obvious. It overrides the effects of the Shadow Crystal, so the Ranger Capture works as it should.

    2. Both methods suppress Pokémon's free will.

    Think about it. Shadow Pokémon turn Pokémon into battle machines to do as their owner says. This suppression of free will is also seen in their inability to level up. On the other hand, Altru's scheme wanted to do just that: turn all Pokémon in Almia into Blake's slaves. Both methods seek to completely control Pokémon and avoid any of their capacities to turn against them or act on their own, as well as preventing them to get stronger.

    My last point is in regards to the Shadow Crystal's effect in humans. It clouds their thoughts and corrupts them deeply. To most effects, it's the same thing that happens to Shadow Pokémon. Due to their supernatural powers, this corruption is manifested in more chaotic ways, as are Shadow Moves and even some mutations, as seen in XD-001. In fact, Shadow Pokémon creation probably involves a method of direct, nonstop exposure to the Shadow Crystal, which deeply corrupts them.

    Also, the final bosses in Colosseum and XD seem to be deeply corrupted, much like Blake himself. Evice's true past is never unveiled, so who's not to say he used to be the cheery, nice Mayor you first meet him as before he came across a Shadow Crystal? Likewise, Greevil is extremely evil, even considering to blow up Citadark Isle with everyone in it, but when his loved son Eldes talks sense in him, he quickly opens his eyes. Likewise, Blake Hall understood all his wrongs when Brighton's diary was read to him at the very end. Clearly, it has an effect in humans, and the Cipher bosses might as well have been under its spell as well. Of note is Nascour, who looks truly eerie and fearsome, more than most NPCs in the series, even the evilest ones. In fact, he has the same red eyes as XD-001. Perhaps he's a human that was exposed to a Shadow Crystal for a very long period of time? Maybe they were trying to create a Shadow Human? Yes, there's the fact Nascour exhibits no real superhuman abilities, and he's immediately obedient to Evice... but that's a separate theory of mine.

    Now, if this all was true... why didn't Darkrai become a Shadow Pokémon? It's hard to tell. However, I believe Darkrai never had a direct exposure to the Shadow Crystal for long enough to turn him into one. At the end, he only goes out of control due to the Incredible Machine. The Black Gigaremos only seem to exist to keep him imprisoned instead of corrupting him. The real nature of the black Gigaremos is never unveiled... maybe if they had kept Darkrai more time imprisoned, since the Gigaremos are powered up by Shadow Crystals... would he have become a Shadow Pokémon? Perhaps...

    With this in mind, it's no wonder why you have to purify Shadow Pokémon, whereas Pokémon affected by Dim Sun's machines go back to normal when they break. Shadow Pokémon are directly exposed to the Shadow Crystal and corrupted further, way beyond mere hypnosis. Perhaps the method doesn't involves a Shadow Crystal itself, but it's involved in their creation somewhere. All in all, I don't think it's impossible.

    But then... why don't reference it in Colosseum and XD? Why not mention the existence of more Shadow Crystals in Almia? Why make a myth around it and the Tears of Princes if it might exist elsewhere? I think all of that doesn't weakens the theory, though. Making legends after what people don't understand is human nature. Due to their mythical status, how would they even think Shadow Crystals might exist elsewhere? As for the Orre games, not even the method is ever revealed, so you wouldn't even know what the source is, but I believe it's clear enough.
    lol I got bored.

  14. #14
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    12,171
    Blog Entries
    951

    Default Re: Pokemon Wild Mass Guessing (WMG)--Bulbagarden Edition

    Even though I didn't play Colo/XD, from what I read about it, I certainly saw a connection between SoA and Colo/XD as well.

  15. #15
    is gonna find you Google's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Wherever you are
    Posts
    98

    Default Re: Pokemon Wild Mass Guessing (WMG)--Bulbagarden Edition

    Quote Originally Posted by Outrage View Post
    (pssssh so much for Bulbapedia claiming Celebi to be the only possible explanation)
    I was going to suggest Celebi before I read the thread, lol.

    I has claimed Vanilluxe, Pursuit, Eccentric, Escape Button, and Blake Hall.

    I'm GLaDOS 2.0 on Smogon.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •