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  1. #16
    yandere=awesome Yamato-san's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lonepichu View Post
    In the Giant Pokemon episode (12 or something) Ekans seemed to be intelligent, but spoke in a way that suggested that perhaps they weren't up to par with Pika and his pals. Koffing mainly just agreed with everyone. The Slowpoke comes to mind as it seemed to completely ignore Pikachu and co, then again they arne't the best example out there.
    it's been a while since I saw it, but in the Japanese version, I think Arbo did speak in a comprehensible manner, though his mannerisms might've been more crude. Dogas was the same in both versions, just agreeing to everything said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wolvorn View Post
    Meowth can again prove pokemon's vast potential for intelligence as he is able to build and operate complicated, heavy machinery.
    not only that, but he seems to be the primary mechanic/operator out of the entire three-person team.

    Yup, classes again. I'm gonna be at this for a while.

  2. #17
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    I disagree with what Wolvern says about Tyranitar being dumb. Although he may not look smart, the fact that he is a preditor means that his brain is developed, like real-world predetors today.

    Ghost Pokemon also seem to be smart in nature. They are able to figure out that humans fear them, and use this to their advantage, and some even make it their pass time to scare people (Gengar).

  3. #18
    A man of science professer_prof's Avatar
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    I believe integlligence varies between types then varies somewhat within types depending on spiecies and slightly varies between spiecies. Sort of like humans.

  4. #19
    Its good to be back. Wolvorn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by "L" View Post
    I disagree with what Wolvern says about Tyranitar being dumb. Although he may not look smart, the fact that he is a preditor means that his brain is developed, like real-world predetors today.

    Ghost Pokemon also seem to be smart in nature. They are able to figure out that humans fear them, and use this to their advantage, and some even make it their pass time to scare people (Gengar).
    I said previously that a portion if not all ghosts are intelligent. As for Tyranitar I agree it probably isn't that dumb however being very violent, predatorial, etc... made it a good example for my statement on instincts as it,being the violent, predatorial pokemon it is, probably has many primal instincts gripping it. At least when it's wild it appears to lose much of that when it is caught. Especially as when many pokemon are tamed they're true intellectual capacity is unlocked. So they appear less intelligent when wild because of the instincts that grip them. Tyranitar, along with many others, is most likely very intelligent, but they need to be freed of their primal binds to show it properly. In the mean time they are able to use only a portion of thet intelligence to hunt, etc...Be it in most cases (including Tyranitar) a fairly large portion making it seem intelligent (as you say) but not as intelligent as some others (which is what I meant. Also I will give that Tyranitar is one of the far more intelligent beasts the the outlined Hulking Beasts group.)
    Last edited by Wolvorn; 26th July 2007 at 12:52 PM.

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  5. #20
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Actually, I'm starting to doubt whether we should even say that wild pokemon are less inteligent than their domesticated counterparts. The wild Pokemon are suited to their livestyles, they know where the watering hole is, they know whether something is poisonous or not, How to hunt/Gather food, know the species social hierarchy, and they most likely know when to fight and when to run against enemy Pokemon in the wild. A completely domesticated Pokemon, by that I mean it was with a trainer at birth, will not know any of these things if they lived their lives with humans and were suddenly cast of to live on their own. like wild Pokemon being domesticated, the domestic Pokemon will eventually learn, and may be viewed as stupid by onlookers due to it's inability to adapt in the wild.

    Wild Pokemon when caught by a human will no longer need to hunt or gather food, nor will they need to be as alert for preditors. They will however learn to battle 9better battle styles than what they had in the wild), participate in contests, or perform small tasks given to them by the humans. They may not even restrain their evolutions, unlike they do in the wild (Pidgeotto in Sevii Islands as an example) due to them having a steady supply of food from their human trainers that allow them to maintain this new form. Domestic-born Pokemon might not even know how to restrain evolution.

    The fact that Pokemon can adapt to either situation shows that they are infact intelligent.

    EDIT: I just realised that what I just posted was basically what you said, except that I did not believe that it was their primal instincts making them act that way.

  6. #21
    Twitterpated lonepichu's Avatar
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    L, I agree with the high level pokemon in the wild. It had never occured to me that they might supress evolution because of the food needs. This must be true for evolved pokemon in the wild.

    Like the Pidgey clan in the ep where Ash's Pidgeotto evolves. There may be one Pidgeot to scare away predators and he gets the most food. Then there will be several that are higher in the hiearchy system and they evolve into Pidgeotto because they get more food then the lower rungs and the children, who stay Pidgey until the oppertuniy arises.

  7. #22
    Its good to be back. Wolvorn's Avatar
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    L you have a good theory, and I agree with it, to a point. Instincts is what set us apart from the animals, or in this case wild pokemon. We as hemans eat when we want to. A wild animal/pokemon on the other hand eats when it needs to (with the possible exception of children), when the pokemon starts to feel hunger instincts tell it to hunt so that it may eat, and no longer be hungry. I agree that a pokemon will still be very intelligent whilst in the wild, but I feel that the instincts somewhat bind them. Once released it would make sense that they are able to use their full potential. Especially as with people the discovery of a whole new world creates new inspiration. Why would the same not apply to an intelligent creature such as pokemon? Admittedly it may be a small change but it will be a visible one. Because once a pokemon is freed of its instincts it is able to do things that it would not even have contemplated beforehand. I.e. Meowth of Team Rocket can now build and operate heavy machinery. Given he also taught himself to talk when wild but this leads me onto something I should have mentioned earlier. I believe that the level of instinct varies in pokemon some having less some having more. I.e. A captured Steelix would gain far more intelligence than a captured Pikachu as it had more holding it down previously.

    Also I disagree that pokemon born domestically could not adapt to life in the wild. As a large number of pokemon are friendly domestic creatures that would take it in and help it to survive until it could do so alone. Admittedly that means it needs some help but regardless it would adapt.

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  8. #23
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    I wasn't really saying that domestically born Pokemon could not adapt, I was merely saying that it would be harder for them to adapt if they grew up domestically and were released as adults, and they themselves would be viewed as stupid by the other people if they have not adapted yet. If their species live together in a group, they will learn the hard way that they must wait their turn, and wait for the "leader" to finish eating. if they live alone, they will need to lean to hunt and which Pokemon they can or cannot eat.

    As for Pokemon being able to understand each other, I don't think that is necisarrilytrue. By that I mean I don't think they can understand what each word specifically means, but may understand them by how they speak or their facial expressions. Many times in the anime I've seen Ash and his friends send out Pokemon of the same type to reason with an opposing Pokemon of the same type. In the second Movie, Pikachu was reasoning with Zapdos through electricity. This led me to believe that Pokemon of different species and type have limited understanding of each other's languages, while Pokemon of different species but the same type have a better understanding, while those of the same exact species can understand each other completely. The bond between Pokemon may also account for their understanding for each other. This would certainly explain trainer owned Pokemon who seem to have no trouble communicationg with each other, and why human trainers are able to pick up on what their pokemon might be saying.

    I agree with lonepichu's hierarchy = evolution theory as well. The higher-ups in the group may also be able to produce a certain electro magnetic wave that may supress evolution within the clan. This would also explain why Pokemon go out and battle trainers rather than running away. They see an oppurtunity to advance, and they take it. If this is true, then it would be even more proof showing that Pokemon are intelligent.
    Last edited by The Outrage; 27th July 2007 at 06:18 PM.

  9. #24
    追放されたバカ Habunake's Avatar
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    What confuses me is how if Meowth can learn English, why can't Pokemon with brains of Super Computers like Alakazam and Metagross do that?

  10. #25
    Avatar by Ayumeg Roses Ablaze's Avatar
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    I always go by the belief that Meowth gave something up when he learned how to speak, and most Pokemon don't want to give up whatever it is that Meowth did.

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  11. #26
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosae Ardentes View Post
    I always go by the belief that Meowth gave something up when he learned how to speak, and most Pokemon don't want to give up whatever it is that Meowth did.
    Possibly the ablility to battle....

    Or he sold his soul to Giratina!

  12. #27
    A black and white world Blackjack Gabbiani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Habunake View Post
    What confuses me is how if Meowth can learn English, why can't Pokemon with brains of Super Computers like Alakazam and Metagross do that?
    Maybe they can and we just haven't seen one that wanted to. Even with the language barrier, humans and pokemon seem to be able to understand each other just fine.

  13. #28
    Registered User Nanabobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rosae Ardentes View Post
    I always go by the belief that Meowth gave something up when he learned how to speak, and most Pokemon don't want to give up whatever it is that Meowth did.
    That would explain why
    a. he can't use any Special attacks,
    b. he says that, unlike most Pokémon, his morals aren't as strong, and
    c. he seems to sometimes lack common sense.

  14. #29
    yandere=awesome Yamato-san's Avatar
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    lacking common sense? I don't know about you, but I find Nyaasu to be pretty level-headed, if only a little desperate (which would explain some of these insane Sakaki fantasies, like using Tatsubay to break open a coconut). Though, he should probably be aware by now that he's not going to beat Satoshi and his Pikachu so easily, the show often seems to poke fun at the fact that this has gotten to be just a regular routine for them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjack Palazzo View Post
    Maybe they can and we just haven't seen one that wanted to. Even with the language barrier, humans and pokemon seem to be able to understand each other just fine.
    that, and some psychic Pokemon, such as Ralts, have been shown to communicate with a human language, just that some people can't hear them (it's probably the same case with Foodin and Metagross). Also, it seems that the Pokemon we tend to see talking the most are those with telekinetic abilities (or similar traits, like Lucario). This is probably because speaking with human words is a real challenge with their specialized vocal cords (sure, Pokemon say their names, but they tend to just use a syllable or two in an animalistic tone, especially in the Japanese version). This was likely another challenge that Nyaasu had to overcome, and even so, he's still got a growly voice in the Japanese version, as well as a tendency to say "nyaa" (though this could've also been done since it's rather typical for Japanese talking cat/catgirl characters).

    On the subject of a language barrier, I find it worth noting that pretty much every canon seems to imply humans and Pokemon don't have much trouble understanding one another (or at least the Pokemon can understand humans well). This is immediately apparent due to the fact that Pokemon can be commanded to use certain attacks, even if they were just caught (so there can't be any theories that they go through some strict training similar to getting a dog to obey commands... then again, maybe that theory can hold some ground if you take into account that many wild Pokemon only know a couple basic attacks, namely a simple tackle, and only learn more complex commands and abilities as the trainers level them).

    Yup, classes again. I'm gonna be at this for a while.

  15. #30
    The Air Breather Emeray's Avatar
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    Ok, I'm going to take a crack at this:

    I think the smartest of pokemon usually are in the psychic group or Ghost group of pokemon. Psychic types can see into the future, teleport, read minds, say things with only their thoughts, and, well, did I say see the future already?

    Ghost types are pretty much the same since they have those traits as well only a little more primal. Nothing against them, but they take and possess bodies and scare people, usually ending the tortures by killing or making their target insane.

    Then again, maybe they are just as smart as their personalities. What I mean to say is that if you had a pokemon and it was really prideful, it had lived it's life in a mansion most of it's life, and suddenly it was abandoned inside a forest full of predators. If another pokemon wants to help it out, would it ask for the help. Probably not. If it was REALLY prideful.

    I guess it also depends on where they live and grow up, like the mansion I said before. Man, my brain hurts....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vereux0 View Post
    *stares*
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    WHAT?!

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