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Thread: Pokémon World Government

  1. #61
    Goronda Type Vice-Webmaster Evil Figment's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    Interesting. However, the fact that we never heard of it in *any* of the anime and maga (*especially* in Special) is rather troublesome.

    Probably there IS a central authority, but it has only relatively limited authority and duties - more of a lose confederation than any sort of centralized nation. A weaker version of the EU, perhaps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mintaka and Hurristat
    He's an evil director / He'll give out infractions / Do something wrong / And he takes direct actions
    Then what'll he do?/ He'll permaban you / You find your name slashed / With a message, 'Adieu'
    Sooooo...watch out!
    "It is said that the federal government, if it was in charge of the Sahara, would run out of sand in five years. Private enterprise, being more efficient, would do it in half the time - and they'd make money off the bridges." - me.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." - Jack Layton's last letter. Rest in peace, Jack.

  2. #62
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    The absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

    Ok, the anime and the mangas don't explicitly say there is a higher form of government. Do you think people under the pressure of deadlines are going to think deep thoughts about things they don't need to tell that week? They are going to wing it if they ever have to address those subjects.

  3. #63
    Goronda Type Vice-Webmaster Evil Figment's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    True, however the fact that we don't see a higher government ever gets involved in the type of crisis situation seen in Special (and in some of the movies). Lots of situations that should have seen large-scale police deployment and police lines saw at best a single Jenny. Giovanni was able to get a large number of flying vessels in the air on a moment notice and fly them about freely, without any air force getting in the way. Hell, the very fact that Ash and other trainers always wind up saving the day speaks volumes about the extremely limited capacities of whatever central government.

    If there is a central government, it is a very weak one as demonstrated by its inability to intervene in the various crisis mentioned above.

    The alternative is that the central government is the league, or related to it.

    (Another alternative is that the Kanto/Johto regions (and Hoenn) are recently colonized/re-colonized, thus while they are in fact subject to a central authority, this authority hasn't been in place long enough to actually have any authority - a Far West of sort, if you will)

    Which could be what we have here - the cities are nominally independant, BUT the League, as a supra-national entity, has enormous clout, due to the social and economical role of trainers (seriously - having hordes of trainers crossing town on a frequent basis can't not be a big part of the economy). And perhaps, too, to the fact that, if all the cities are independant, then it's hard to say "no" to a large bunch of trainers armed with pet killing machines.
    Last edited by Evil Figment; 23rd February 2006 at 10:35 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mintaka and Hurristat
    He's an evil director / He'll give out infractions / Do something wrong / And he takes direct actions
    Then what'll he do?/ He'll permaban you / You find your name slashed / With a message, 'Adieu'
    Sooooo...watch out!
    "It is said that the federal government, if it was in charge of the Sahara, would run out of sand in five years. Private enterprise, being more efficient, would do it in half the time - and they'd make money off the bridges." - me.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." - Jack Layton's last letter. Rest in peace, Jack.

  4. #64
    Meteorologist The Big Al's Avatar
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    I don't think the canon would have allowed Giovanni to be killed by a squadron of F-14's. Though I'd pay a buck to see it.

    I feel like Poomo tonight.

  5. #65
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    Really now, large-scale police deployments and an air force intercepting Giovanni's airships? If the anime started showing things like that, it would be a very, very different show.

    Besides, if their absence is proof of weak central government, then it doesn't matter if that government is run by politicians or by the League. Whichever runs the government, it is incapable of deploying large numbers of police or fielding an air force.

    Government, whether it be local or central, was left out of the show because it makes things messier. Otherwise, you'd have to start explaining things like money, how Ash-tachi gets it, why nobody seems to go to school, and why parents let 10-year old kids wander alone from one city to another. Reality gets in the way in what is basically a fantasy show.

    The fact that Ash and other trainers save the day time after time isn't indicative of a weak government. It's a characteristic of the genre. Besides, how interesting would it be to see some official tell Ash to step aside and let a professional handle things week after week?

  6. #66
    Goronda Type Vice-Webmaster Evil Figment's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    It wouldn'T be interesting at all.

    The thing is, given all the elements we have at hand, there is very little reason to assume a central government, and none at all to assume a strong central government.

    Yes, absence of proof is not proof of absence, but in the absence of proof of something, there is little reason to assume that something exists.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mintaka and Hurristat
    He's an evil director / He'll give out infractions / Do something wrong / And he takes direct actions
    Then what'll he do?/ He'll permaban you / You find your name slashed / With a message, 'Adieu'
    Sooooo...watch out!
    "It is said that the federal government, if it was in charge of the Sahara, would run out of sand in five years. Private enterprise, being more efficient, would do it in half the time - and they'd make money off the bridges." - me.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." - Jack Layton's last letter. Rest in peace, Jack.

  7. #67
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    There is very little evidence one way or another if a central government exists. That's a deliberate decision by the writers. Is that a problem? Seems to me it's a god-send for writers of fan-fics and a source of endless debate for those inclined to do so.

  8. #68
    Goronda Type Vice-Webmaster Evil Figment's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    In the absence of evidence that something exist, the logical assumption is that it doesn't.

    At least per any sort of scientifical standards.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mintaka and Hurristat
    He's an evil director / He'll give out infractions / Do something wrong / And he takes direct actions
    Then what'll he do?/ He'll permaban you / You find your name slashed / With a message, 'Adieu'
    Sooooo...watch out!
    "It is said that the federal government, if it was in charge of the Sahara, would run out of sand in five years. Private enterprise, being more efficient, would do it in half the time - and they'd make money off the bridges." - me.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." - Jack Layton's last letter. Rest in peace, Jack.

  9. #69
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    Ok, I'll concede that point if only to move this debate along.

    There is no strong evidence that a central government exists be it strong or weak. Be it run by politicians or the League.

    Happy?

    There is evidence that a *something* exists that ensures a common currency exists among the various cities and towns. There is a *something* that allows the passage of people and goods from one town to another without challenge. There is a *something* that ensures that laws are uniform from one place to another. There is a *something* that apparently fought a war--"The War"--against another *something*.

    That *something* is not a central government since there is no evidence it exists.

  10. #70
    May the Aura be with you. FabuVinny's Avatar
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    The uniform laws I suspect is linked with the Jennies even if a uniform government does not exist.

  11. #71
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    But Jennies don't make laws, they just enforce them.

  12. #72
    Perpetually Groggy Swifty's Avatar
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    The fact that the Jennies exist suggests an existance of a larger paramilitary force that they are a part of that seem to be a standard part of Hoenn, Orange Islands, Kanto, and Johto.

  13. #73
    Goronda Type Vice-Webmaster Evil Figment's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    I'll concede that there IS some form of central authority or leadership, your argument is convincing enough.

    The characteristics that we know of :

    1 - It exists in some form or another (whether a central government, or a loose union, or whatever).

    2 - It imposed a single money, and relatively uniform laws.

    3 - These laws seems to be quite permissive (the very fact that pokémon are widely available despite their destructive potential, for a start) where they exist at all.

    4 - It is relatively limited in its means of interventions (as demonstrated by its inability to do anything in any number of crisis situations).

    5 - Nearly all of its enforcement capacity rests on pokémon training : Jennies and theirs (for what little they're worth), and more importantly, pokémon G-Men such as Lance.

    6 - We know also that the League often works hand in hand with the government (unless, of course, it IS the government) ; putting aside the whole Lance as a govt employee matter, we have seen Jennies working hand in hand with Joys (who are clearly demonstrated to be working with the League in the Yas and Kas episode) more than often enough.

    *That it was a plot necessity is irrelevant ; what we can observe about the world is that whenever there's trouble anywhere, trainers are the ones who wind up saving the day.
    Last edited by Evil Figment; 24th February 2006 at 12:16 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mintaka and Hurristat
    He's an evil director / He'll give out infractions / Do something wrong / And he takes direct actions
    Then what'll he do?/ He'll permaban you / You find your name slashed / With a message, 'Adieu'
    Sooooo...watch out!
    "It is said that the federal government, if it was in charge of the Sahara, would run out of sand in five years. Private enterprise, being more efficient, would do it in half the time - and they'd make money off the bridges." - me.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." - Jack Layton's last letter. Rest in peace, Jack.

  14. #74
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    The existence of the Joys would suggest there is a multi-regional organization of some sort as well.

  15. #75
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    Damian, if I concede there is no evidence of a strong central government, will you concede the League has no part in governance in anything other than the games and Pokemon centers?

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