Moves-of-the-Week Discussion #87: Return and Frustration

Results 1 to 8 of 8
Like Tree2Likes
  • 1 Post By Yato
  • 1 Post By garrison-san

Thread: Moves-of-the-Week Discussion #87: Return and Frustration

  1. #1
    You Are (Not) Fine Winterdaze's Avatar Moderator
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Posts
    2,567
    Blog Entries
    28

    Follow Winterdaze on Tumblr

    Default Moves-of-the-Week Discussion #87: Return and Frustration



    In Pokémon, there are lots of different moves used by different Pokémon. Every week, we shall focus the discussion on a different move, and there will be some base questions that would help you start this off. This week, Return & Frustration are chosen.

    In Generation 2, Friendship was introduced. (By the way, it's not happiness, as some places still call it.) Because of this, there should be moves that are affected by the value, to give it more use besides evolving Pokémon. Both moves are functionally identical, save for a certain interesting thing. The interesting thing about both moves are that they are more powerful the more or less the Pokémon likes the trainer, so Return is strongest with a maximum Friendship value, while Frustration is best with a minimum Friendship value. This move is easily learned by almost every Pokémon, so there won't be a shortage of users.

    Here's the in-game description for both moves:

    Quote Originally Posted by Return (XY)
    Type: Normal (Physical)
    Base Power: Varies
    Accuracy: 100%
    PP: 20

    A full-power attack that grows more powerful the more the user likes its Trainer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Frustration (XY)
    Type: Normal (Physical)
    Base Power: Varies
    Accuracy: 100%
    PP: 20

    A full-power attack that grows more powerful the less the user likes its Trainer.
    Here are the usual possible questions about this move:
    • How does certain Pokémon (who knows it) use this move? What kind of purpose would this move have for them (in the Pokémon World)?
    • How could this move be used to aid a profession in the Pokémon World?
    • Could this move realistically be used by any Pokémon who doesn't learn it normally? If yes, please explain your choices.
    • How would this move be used in battling, realistically or video game-wise?


    Other questions (You could ask other critical questions beyond the listed):
    • Due to the ease on gaining friendship points on Pokémon as compared to losing them, Frustration is not easy to power up. How does one make full use of Frustration?
    • Note that Buneary and Lopunny are the only Pokémon to learn them naturally. Why are Buneary and Lopunny compatible to Frustration and Return respectively?
    • Would Return find use on any Pokémon without a Same Type Attack Bonus (STAB) on this move?


    Here is the current user for Return:
    (Level-up)
    • Lopunny

      (Technical Machine 27)
    • (Every Pokémon with general TM Access)


    Here is the current user for Frustration:
    (Level-up)
    • Buneary

      (Technical Machine 21)
    • (Every Pokémon with general TM Access)


    Thanks for reading, and happy discussing!

    ~ The General Pokémon Forum Staff


    Previous Move-of-the-Weeks:





    For every four weeks, users get to vote for the next Move-of-the-Week. To narrow down the selection of potential moves, a criteria for the next move would be placed. If you want to vote, at least contribute to the topic in hand (because this topic is about the current move, not about voting for the next move). If you posted just to vote, your vote won't be considered.

    One more thing: if a move is already covered in a past Move-of-the-Week, then it won't be considered, so make sure to check the list to see if the move you wish to vote had already been covered.

    Criterion for next move: Counterpart Moves (Examples below)


  2. #2
    Face of mercy? NOPE Yato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Anywhere
    Posts
    6,664
    Blog Entries
    435

    Follow Yato on Tumblr

    Default Re: Moves-of-the-Week Discussion #87: Return and Frustration

    Note that Buneary and Lopunny are the only Pokémon to learn them naturally. Why are Buneary and Lopunny compatible to Frustration and Return respectively?
    My guess is that it's because they're based on real rabbits. Rabbits are prey animals, so they're always scanning their surrounding environment in case of danger. This causes them to become easily over-stressed, and thus possibly overwhelmed by anxiety and frustration. Buneary's ears are always rolled up (from BW dex entry), which means Buneary are always prepared to strike at any given moment. They're likely straining themselves like that, so it's natural that Buneary learn Frustration by level up.

    While Lopunny are also very cautious rabbits, it is important to note that they are evolved forms. They're bigger and stronger than Bunearys and have better senses so they probably don't need to constantly scan the area. The dex entry in Pearl version says that Lopunny never fail to groom themselves - this meaning they can afford to stop looking around once in a while to groom their ears. So unlike Bunearys, they aren't over-stressing themselves. Also, from what bulbapedia says, Lopunny may be based on the Holland Lop - which are known for their sweet temperament and nonaggressive behavior (wikipedia). This meaning, they are friendly creatures, so they'd learn Return easily.

  3. #3
    ◓Gypsy Vanner Horse Kyuuketsuki's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    The Old World.
    Posts
    2,231
    Blog Entries
    329

    Default Re: Moves-of-the-Week Discussion #87: Return and Frustration

    In my play through of X, I used an Aurorus with Refrigerate and Return. So yes, I think it's a very useful move that I still use and that got me out of so many tricky situations. I can't help but imagine Ostario squashing enemies to protect me.

  4. #4
    samurai in autumn garrison-san's Avatar Administrator
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Gender
    Genderless
    Location
    Lake Wobegon
    Posts
    4,559
    Blog Entries
    9
    Follow garrison-san On Twitter
    Follow garrison-san on Tumblr

    Default Re: Moves-of-the-Week Discussion #87: Return and Frustration

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Chocolate View Post
    Note that Buneary and Lopunny are the only Pokémon to learn them naturally. Why are Buneary and Lopunny compatible to Frustration and Return respectively?
    My guess is that it's because they're based on real rabbits. Rabbits are prey animals, so they're always scanning their surrounding environment in case of danger. This causes them to become easily over-stressed, and thus possibly overwhelmed by anxiety and frustration. Buneary's ears are always rolled up (from BW dex entry), which means Buneary are always prepared to strike at any given moment. They're likely straining themselves like that, so it's natural that Buneary learn Frustration by level up.

    While Lopunny are also very cautious rabbits, it is important to note that they are evolved forms. They're bigger and stronger than Bunearys and have better senses so they probably don't need to constantly scan the area. The dex entry in Pearl version says that Lopunny never fail to groom themselves - this meaning they can afford to stop looking around once in a while to groom their ears. So unlike Bunearys, they aren't over-stressing themselves. Also, from what bulbapedia says, Lopunny may be based on the Holland Lop - which are known for their sweet temperament and nonaggressive behavior (wikipedia). This meaning, they are friendly creatures, so they'd learn Return easily.
    I don't think it's that complicated. As I see it, "Return" is simply your reward for getting your bunny mon to level up via happiness sooner.

  5. #5
    Face of mercy? NOPE Yato's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Gender
    Male
    Location
    Anywhere
    Posts
    6,664
    Blog Entries
    435

    Follow Yato on Tumblr

    Default Re: Moves-of-the-Week Discussion #87: Return and Frustration

    Quote Originally Posted by garrison-san View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Chocolate View Post
    Note that Buneary and Lopunny are the only Pokémon to learn them naturally. Why are Buneary and Lopunny compatible to Frustration and Return respectively?
    My guess is that it's because they're based on real rabbits. Rabbits are prey animals, so they're always scanning their surrounding environment in case of danger. This causes them to become easily over-stressed, and thus possibly overwhelmed by anxiety and frustration. Buneary's ears are always rolled up (from BW dex entry), which means Buneary are always prepared to strike at any given moment. They're likely straining themselves like that, so it's natural that Buneary learn Frustration by level up.

    While Lopunny are also very cautious rabbits, it is important to note that they are evolved forms. They're bigger and stronger than Bunearys and have better senses so they probably don't need to constantly scan the area. The dex entry in Pearl version says that Lopunny never fail to groom themselves - this meaning they can afford to stop looking around once in a while to groom their ears. So unlike Bunearys, they aren't over-stressing themselves. Also, from what bulbapedia says, Lopunny may be based on the Holland Lop - which are known for their sweet temperament and nonaggressive behavior (wikipedia). This meaning, they are friendly creatures, so they'd learn Return easily.
    I don't think it's that complicated. As I see it, "Return" is simply your reward for getting your bunny mon to level up via happiness sooner.
    Maybe, but then Lucario doesn't learn Return by level up, or Togetic.

  6. #6
    samurai in autumn garrison-san's Avatar Administrator
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Gender
    Genderless
    Location
    Lake Wobegon
    Posts
    4,559
    Blog Entries
    9
    Follow garrison-san On Twitter
    Follow garrison-san on Tumblr

    Default Re: Moves-of-the-Week Discussion #87: Return and Frustration

    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Chocolate View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by garrison-san View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dark Chocolate View Post
    Note that Buneary and Lopunny are the only Pokémon to learn them naturally. Why are Buneary and Lopunny compatible to Frustration and Return respectively?
    My guess is that it's because they're based on real rabbits. Rabbits are prey animals, so they're always scanning their surrounding environment in case of danger. This causes them to become easily over-stressed, and thus possibly overwhelmed by anxiety and frustration. Buneary's ears are always rolled up (from BW dex entry), which means Buneary are always prepared to strike at any given moment. They're likely straining themselves like that, so it's natural that Buneary learn Frustration by level up.

    While Lopunny are also very cautious rabbits, it is important to note that they are evolved forms. They're bigger and stronger than Bunearys and have better senses so they probably don't need to constantly scan the area. The dex entry in Pearl version says that Lopunny never fail to groom themselves - this meaning they can afford to stop looking around once in a while to groom their ears. So unlike Bunearys, they aren't over-stressing themselves. Also, from what bulbapedia says, Lopunny may be based on the Holland Lop - which are known for their sweet temperament and nonaggressive behavior (wikipedia). This meaning, they are friendly creatures, so they'd learn Return easily.
    I don't think it's that complicated. As I see it, "Return" is simply your reward for getting your bunny mon to level up via happiness sooner.
    Maybe, but then Lucario doesn't learn Return by level up, or Togetic.
    True, I don't know why the rabbits were singled out in particular, but Lopunny's pokedex entries simply don't support the idea that it is any happier or less aggressive than its pre-evolution (it's repeatedly described as a highly cautious pokemon that will kick violently if handled too roughly), so I suspect that it's largely arbitrary. The best argument to the contrary, as far as I can see, is that it relates to the species' trait of responding badly to rough handling, but that behaviour hasn't yet been linked to its pre-evolution. It seems to me that Lopunny is the more highly-strung of the two (the fact that it levels up via happiness not withstanding).
    Last edited by garrison-san; 25th March 2014 at 07:54 AM.
    winstein likes this.

  7. #7
    Minion of the Damned cityvillain's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Gender
    Transgender
    Location
    Blackfield Asylum
    Posts
    862

    Default Re: Moves-of-the-Week Discussion #87: Return and Frustration

    I'm very more curious as how the attack move would look like realistically. It's a physical contact move so
    I imagine the Pokemon tackling the opponent with great force and the power depends on how deep their bond is with their trainer.
    For frustration, I guess the more bitterness the Pokemon has in his/her emotions the greater power its move would be.
    Cos I wouldn't see the point of how the Pokemon would obey or fight for its trainer when it has 0 happiness to it.
    Kenta's Pokemon Party


  8. #8
    samurai in autumn garrison-san's Avatar Administrator
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Gender
    Genderless
    Location
    Lake Wobegon
    Posts
    4,559
    Blog Entries
    9
    Follow garrison-san On Twitter
    Follow garrison-san on Tumblr

    Default Re: Moves-of-the-Week Discussion #87: Return and Frustration

    Quote Originally Posted by cityvillain View Post
    For frustration, I guess the more bitterness the Pokemon has in his/her emotions the greater power its move would be.
    Cos I wouldn't see the point of how the Pokemon would obey or fight for its trainer when it has 0 happiness to it.
    As I see it, it's taking its anger out on the opposing pokemon.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •