Move-of-the-Week Discussion #10: Waterfall

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Thread: Move-of-the-Week Discussion #10: Waterfall

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    Surprise! winstein's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Move-of-the-Week Discussion #10: Waterfall

    In Pokémon, there are lots of different moves used by different Pokémon. However, there are certain moves we don't normally see being used, heard about, or used in a meaningful manner. On the other hand, there are moves we see that are famous or used often. In this type of discussion, we shall discuss the ins-and-outs of the move of the topic, and there will be some base questions that will help you. Every Saturday, a different move will be discussed.

    For this week's move-of-the-week, we asked users to vote for a move that's a Hidden Machine. Because Waterfall received the most votes (only two, but it's still the most), the next move shall be Waterfall!



    Quote Originally Posted by In-game Description (Move)
    Base Power: 80 (Physical)
    Accuracy: 100
    PP: 15

    The user charges at the target and may make it flinch. It can also be used to climb a waterfall.
    Quote Originally Posted by In-game Description (HM)
    The user charges the target at an awesome speed. It can also be used to climb a waterfall.
    That's right: this move has two descriptions! However, despite that, the move was not a HM at first. In the first Generation, this move was exclusive to Goldeen and Seaking, which was something to know. This move began to become a HM from Generation 2 onwards, so many more Pokémon began learning it. However, Goldeen and Seaking are still the only ones to learn the move normally.

    This move is notable for being a Physical Water attack. Before Generation 4, it was Special, and as such, was inferior to Surf due to the latter's higher power and ability to hit both foes without hitting your teammate. However, Waterfall received some attention now because it's got something to differentiate from Surf. Despite being a HM, not every Water-type learns it!

    Here are the usual possible questions about this move (though you could ask other critical questions beyond the listed):
    • How does certain Pokémon (who knows it) use this move?
    • What kind of purpose would this move have for them (in the Pokémon World)?
    • How could this move be used to aid a profession in the Pokémon World?
    • Realistically, would there be any advantage or disadvantage associated with using this move? If yes, what kind of advantage/disadvantage would they have when they use it?
    • Could this move realistically be used by any Pokémon who doesn't learn it normally? If yes, please explain your choices.
    • How would this move be used in competitive battling, realistically or video game-wise?


    Other questions:
    • Why isn't it possible for some Water-types to learn or use Waterfall?
    • If a Pokémon is able to learn a stronger Physical Water attack (Crabhammer, Aqua Tail or Razor Shell (due to its secondary effect)), would it be feasible to replace Waterfall with that move?
    • Due to the way Waterfall works in-game (carry the player over a waterfall), if a Pokémon is able to Fly and Surf but not Waterfall (like Swanna and Pelipper), should they be able to achieve the same purpose?


    Here are the current users of this move (put in Spoiler since there are so many to list):


    Thanks for reading, and happy discussing!

    ~ The Pokémon World Forum Staff


    Previous Move-of-the-Weeks:
    Last edited by winstein; 28th September 2012 at 11:22 PM.
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    Default Re: Move-of-the-Week Discussion #10: Waterfall

    I wouldn't replace Waterfall for Razor Shell, due to its low BP, but Crabhammer and Aqua Tail I might since their slightly lower accuracy isn't much of a deal. However I may not use Waterfall and Surf at the same time due to the endangerment of having more than one Water type unless a non-water type was able to learn one of the two. I believe the reason why some Water types can't learn Waterfall is because it's only used by Pokemon who live in streams where waterfalls are present and are able to climb through them (like salmon).

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    I poke your snoot UnovaCastaway's Avatar
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    Default Re: Move-of-the-Week Discussion #10: Waterfall

    I always thought the Water/Flying birds should have been able to learn it. (I use a Swanna as an HM slave with Surf, Fly, and Dive, and was really disppointed at the inability to learn Waterfall.) It makes sense for an aquatic bird to flap up waterfalls if it can already swim on top of the water.

    I'm surprised that Luvdisc and Omastar learn it. They're based off animals that are weak or slow and would have a hard time swimming up larger cascades.

    In the Pokemon world, I see Waterfall as a crucial move for mountain and cave explorers with Surf so they aren't stopped from going upstream. (although, despite game mechanics forcing travel to actual cities instead of around obstacles, Fly could use a similar purpose realistically in those situations)

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    You Are (Not) Fine Winterdaze's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Move-of-the-Week Discussion #10: Waterfall

    I'm curious as to what Waterfall actually looks like when used. I always imagined it as a giant cascade of water appearing above the foe and crashing down on them, similar to Rock Slide in the anime, but the game description and animation make it seem like some kind of tackle.
    I think the only time it was used in the anime it appeared to be some kind of water column that shoots upwards, though that was during a contest appeal.

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    Face of mercy? NOPE Yato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Move-of-the-Week Discussion #10: Waterfall

    Waterfall is good for Azumarill, who has access to Huge Power. Not only does it receive STAB, but it's also got an awesome physical attack boost when it uses Waterfall. In the recent games, I always had Huge Power'd Azumarill learn Waterfall if I can because the damage done is surprisingly similar to a STAB'd Surf, if not better.

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    Dark Soul Takaki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Move-of-the-Week Discussion #10: Waterfall

    The only really viable users of this move in OU are Azumarill and perhaps Feraligatr and Gyarados (Though these two are arguably not good enough). Azumarill fires these things off with ridiculous power in the rain.

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    Default Re: Move-of-the-Week Discussion #10: Waterfall

    I find this move to be a pretty reliable one. I imagine a user creating an "aura" of water around him and charging at the enemy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
    The only really viable users of this move in OU are Azumarill and perhaps Feraligatr and Gyarados (Though these two are arguably not good enough). Azumarill fires these things off with ridiculous power in the rain.
    Gyarados not good enough? I would say it is better than Azumarill in OU.
    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
    @Pikmin1211; Pokemon Online has options for all but rotation battles. None of those you listed are competitive metagames though except Cresselia championships... I mean VGC.

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    Dark Soul Takaki's Avatar
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    Default Re: Move-of-the-Week Discussion #10: Waterfall

    @Lord Clowncrete; Gyarados requires a lot of support to even switch in and all it really offers to rain teams is more weaknesses whilst at least Azumarill can revenge kill stuff.

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    Default Re: Move-of-the-Week Discussion #10: Waterfall

    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
    @Lord Clowncrete; Gyarados requires a lot of support to even switch in and all it really offers to rain teams is more weaknesses whilst at least Azumarill can revenge kill stuff.
    Yeah, but tbh, Gyara can fill a lot more roles than Azu anyday. I have used it as a phazer and it does pretty well. It can go bulky dd or even offensive dd. Its typing infact makes it easier to switch it in along with intimidate.

    Although, cb azumarill is powerful, I rarely find it useful apart from revenging terrakion and occasionally volcy. Its speed is just far too less to sweep. Once it gets locked into a move, it is a sitting duck and frankly, I never regard choice banded mons as good wall-breakers(except for dragons).
    Quote Originally Posted by Takaki View Post
    @Pikmin1211; Pokemon Online has options for all but rotation battles. None of those you listed are competitive metagames though except Cresselia championships... I mean VGC.

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    Default Re: Move-of-the-Week Discussion #10: Waterfall

    @Lord Clowncrete; Gyarados is almost entirely outclassed in its roles by Dragonite whilst Azumarill actually has a niche.

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    Surprise! winstein's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Move-of-the-Week Discussion #10: Waterfall

    Just a quick warning: this thread is about the move Waterfall, not about the usability of Pokemon.

    Thanks for reading.
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    Default Re: Move-of-the-Week Discussion #10: Waterfall

    I love Waterfall, because it's oh-so-useful on my favorite Pokemon, Sharpedo. Besides fanboyism, it's the go to move for nearly all physical water types, such as Crawdaunt, Floatzel, Swampert, Gyarados. Water being the popular and common type it is, this move was probably benefited more than any other in the physical/special split. Well, besides maybe Shadow Ball and pretty much every dark-type move......

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    Default Re: Move-of-the-Week Discussion #10: Waterfall

    I love Waterfall, it's one of my favorite Water type moves along with Surf.
    I love Ice and Ghost pokemon! :P Feels cold and scary....

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    Default Re: Move-of-the-Week Discussion #10: Waterfall

    I imagine the aquatic birds can't learn Waterfall because they only use their feet to swim while everything else has fins and four-limb propulsion. Luvdisc is still a mystery though. Maybe Omanyte is strong enough to hold on to earth behind a waterfall and slowly climb up as the trainer holds on to it's shell? I like that image.
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    Default Re: Move-of-the-Week Discussion #10: Waterfall

    Waterfall is one of those moves with a very misleading name. It sounds like it should cast a waterfall upon your opponent, but instead it's a direct attack. When I imagine it being used in a "real world" environment, I picture a sort of Aqua Jet-like move where they charge while being engulfed in water. Sort of like how Squirtle uses it in Brawl.



    If used in the water, I imagine it could be used with a bit more diversity, such as when Zoey's Finneon used it and swam up a geyser of water.

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