Thread: Manaphy and Phione

Originally Posted by coolcatkim22

You know, in Pokemon snap there were eggs of the trio birds.

I theories that all ledgeys lay eggs it's just that most of them don't lay eggs in the day care.

To be honest, as much as I love the game, I don't consider Snap to be canon, especially after the recent outing that it wasn't even going to be a Pokemon game in the first place.

I'm one of those guys who firmly believes there's only one of each legendary, so sorry about that.

Taking in the mutation theory Phione is the result of what happens when Manaphy is bred with Ditto. Maybe Phione is the result because Manaphy eggs are created from a different method and not the breeding method all non-legendaries can be created from so Phione is born instead(hence the mutation, like not all the DNA is copied or something). Or Ditto is unable to breed with legendaries because of some trait the legendaries have but Manaphy in some way lacks this trait, therefore Phione is born because Manaphy can still breed with Ditto but that legendary trait stops the creation of a Manaphy.

Manaphy is a legendary. I don't know or care what the heck Phione is.

Manaphy is a legend, the Pokéworld states so and it is hard to obtain. but Phione, I don't think that it is, just never appeared to me as one. I just consider it a Rare Pokémon

I was just asking myself why GameFreak would all of a sudden go against everything its done by creating Phione. Like for years it has been stated that legendaries cannot breed and then all of a sudden here comes manaphy and phione breaking all the rules. I would just like to know what makes Manaphy different from all of the other legendaries (there is no doubt that it is a legendary). And Phione I also consider a legendary, I just think that GameFreak is completely hypocritical with these two mons.

Originally Posted by garrinikole

I was just asking myself why GameFreak would all of a sudden go against everything its done by creating Phione. Like for years it has been stated that legendaries cannot breed and then all of a sudden here comes manaphy and phione breaking all the rules. I would just like to know what makes Manaphy different from all of the other legendaries (there is no doubt that it is a legendary). And Phione I also consider a legendary, I just think that GameFreak is completely hypocritical with these two mons.

It was never confirmed that legendaries couldn't breed... they just couldn't do so in the games...

Originally Posted by Venator

It was never confirmed that legendaries couldn't breed... they just couldn't do so in the games...

On top of that, these "rules" people cite that makes a Pokemon legendary aren't rules, but observed trends the fandom makes, and applies to future legendaries. But of course, since these are merely observed trends (formed from very small samples may I add) and not concrete rules, they can easily be broken.

Let's take a look shall we?

Generation 1:
-Legendary Pokemon fought all have overworld sprites
-One of a kind (note that there were two Snorlax)
-Very powerful

Generation 2:
-Legendaries can in fact roam, but they are confirmed to be the same guys when we meet them multiple times
-Cannot breed
-Do not have genders

Generation 3:
-Gender rule changed: Legendary Pokemon can have gender, but only be one gender

Generation 4:
-Gender rule changes again (Heatran gets a gender ratio)
-Breeding rule changed: Legendary Pokemon shown to breed, but still does not make more of itself, thus maintaining exclusivity
-Being inherently powerful, changed

These aren't set rules people, stop having such a narrow view of what a legendary is and isn't. This is why I keep trying to promote the idea that the English fandom adopt the idea of Legendary categorizations based on what they actually are, Pokemon based in legend, or Pokemon so rarely seen that they are believed to only exist in stories (i.e. legends).

Originally Posted by Hawkfire

I wouldn't call it a legend, only an event. A bit like Victini in that sense. No real legend about it, just a powerful little critter.

What's Mew's legend? Being a scientific oddity? Because that's all it is, yet its a legendary. Mewtwo is a legendary, yet has no associated legends with it. Genosect is a legendary, despite only being a cybernetic-enhanced prehistoric bug, that there is certainly more of.

Considering that Ranger is currently the only source of Manaphy, there are currently three known in existence, and possibly more.

How do we even know if Manaphy's egg is even an egg and not its dormant state like how Jirachi can take on a crystalline form when it sleeps?

Well, that's kinda my point. I see Mew and Mewtwo and Genesect as powerful little critters too. The blanket term legendary really doesn't work anymore I guess.

Originally Posted by Hawkfire

Well, that's kinda my point. I see Mew and Mewtwo and Genesect as powerful little critters too. The blanket term legendary really doesn't work anymore I guess.

If it applies to the first legendaries, then that blanket term never worked since the legendary birds didn't have an associated legend then, nor do they have one now.

If I recall, the term was originally a fanon term anyway, so I don't know why people act as if its law. Even if it wasn't, its clear that the parameters applied to it are fanon. The only generation that hasn't broken a rule is Gen II (and I guess Gen V).

Umm... way to go OR? I came in here expecting what I said to be torn apart but it looks like we're on similar wavelengths. But regarding Gen V... I suspect something will be said of Ulgamoth by GF/Nintendo/Pokemon.co.jp/Wherever else by the third game or IN the third game saying exactly what it is. Not that I'm trying to bring it up here but... don't rule out Gen V for not "breaking the rules" just yet.

I'd prefer it to not be legendary because people are expecting it to be, by virtue of selectively applying old concepts to it, much like how Rotom is legendary.

Instead, Ulgamoth is going to break people's conceptions of what a non-Legendary Pokemon can be, though I wish it wasn't SR weak since I always viewed it as superior to Sazandra.

Ulgamoth does have its own thread in World, so it would probably be better if this discussion didn't stray too far into that territory. It's understandable to bring issues like it or Rotom up in passing in order to further a point related to Manaphy/Phione, but the thread shouldn't go off on tangents.

Just because Legendary except Manaphy can't breed in-game, doesn't mean they can't breed at all in-universe. Think outside the box, people.

Legendary Pokemon can't breed in-game because that would make them easier to obtain, and make them "less" worthy (which is a stupid argument). But I'm not going to accept that at face value. Just because they SAY they can't, doesn't mean it's 100% true.

Originally Posted by TM2-Megatron

Ulgamoth does have its own thread in World, so it would probably be better if this discussion didn't stray too far into that territory. It's understandable to bring issues like it or Rotom up in passing in order to further a point related to Manaphy/Phione, but the thread shouldn't go off on tangents.

Who was the last person to post in that thread? Me.

/burn status

Anyway, I was just making a direct reply to OR saying he shouldn't consider Gen V to be out of the "rule-breaking" trend and even put a disclaimer saying "Not that I'm trying to bring it up here" regarding Ulgamoth. I am still not trying to bring it up here.

Anyway, Phione is still a legendary in my eyes.

Venator...drop it.