Thread: Loose Ends in the Games

Originally Posted by Poké-Ranger Mike

What about Leaf? Does she even exist? She not even mentioned in HGSS.

It's hard to tell with her. She could have simply not been mentioned, not been in Kanto or Johto, be in Sevii, or no one knew her. We'll have to wait another gen to be able to make better theories. I personally believe she just had a separate journey from Red and Green and didn't interact with them.

Originally Posted by Green Zubat

So clearly, the dude from the island cave [after striking rich] bought that house just outside Diglett's cave from the previous residents. But what happened to them and why include a Sevii Islands character in the remakes but no other?

You have it the other way around: That person was in the Generation II games, and it was FRLG that incorporated him into the Sevii Islands as a reference to those games. Game Freak went all out on making the Sevii Islands pay a homage to Generation II; it's a pity that HGSS don't have a single reference to the Sevii Islands to return the favor, as it were.

An epic battle ensues and it looks to be a draw but Leaf manages to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat. Red, shocked, becomes enbittered by this loss and become obsessed with training severs all contact with the outside world and dies in one of the ways mentioned. Alternatively, the hermitage & obsession with training begins before Leaf meets him at Mt. Silver & during or after the fight loses his footing and slips into the abyss with all his pokémon, afterwhich leaf flees the land, never to return.

As much as I appreciate the originality, what the theory means is that if we ever find out that Leaf is canon, it will be followed by revelation that Red is dead. Can't these two characters co-exist?

Myself, I don't take Red and Leaf's resemblance to mean that they are counterparts from different universes, although I wouldn't mind that theory if the concept became tangible. I think of them as twins who were separated, which is to say that the canon Leaf is not exactly the character we know from FRLG, but someone who grew up wherever Red's father has taken off to.

Leaf's canon journey as a trainer may not have anything to do with the events seen in FRLG which presumably all involved Red, but I'd like to believe that unlike Red, she is still associated with the Sevii Islands. It is possible that she grew up in a currently unseen region (the one where the Sinjoh Ruins are?), but her path has led her to the Sevii Islands, and that is where she is in the HGSS timeline - along with Lorelei and Agatha.

Originally Posted by Unown Lord

You have it the other way around: That person was in the Generation II games, and it was FRLG that incorporated him into the Sevii Islands as a reference to those games. Game Freak went all out on making the Sevii Islands pay a homage to Generation II; it's a pity that HGSS don't have a single reference to the Sevii Islands to return the favor, as it were.

No you misunderstand me, I also meant "I wish they'd thrown another Sevii Islands reference too.

Originally Posted by Unown Lord

As much as I appreciate the originality, what the theory means is that if we ever find out that Leaf is canon, it will be followed by revelation that Red is dead. Can't these two characters co-exist?

In my personal fanon? no ;)

Myself, I don't take Red and Leaf's resemblance to mean that they are counterparts from different universes, although I wouldn't mind that theory if the concept became tangible. I think of them as twins who were separated, which is to say that the canon Leaf is not exactly the character we know from FRLG, but someone who grew up wherever Red's father has taken off to.

Oh wow, I really like that identical twins theory, it just seems to fit. And it explains Red's father a bit.

Originally Posted by Unown Lord

and that is where she is in the HGSS timeline - along with Lorelei and Agatha.

The sevii islands are starting to sound like that farm that you're parents always say your pets have gone to when they kick the can. (or in my case, the attic where they say they've put your stuff when really its been flogged on eBay)

Originally Posted by Iron Mask Marauder

He might not have known. He doesn't seem to know about the other orbs save for in the anime.

He knew about using the Red Chain well enough. D: I don't think he'd be careless enough to forget the Dragon Trio's special orbs.

Originally Posted by Ryuutakesh!

Because of the vagueness of the event, Giovanni for sure. Is he still alive or did he wander off again?

I think he DID commit suicide. Not because I want Team Rocket to be done for good, but it is a nice, albeit, tragic end for the man. I don't think an ex-Mafia leader can get over the shame of being beaten by a mere child twice. To a man like that, suicide would be the only way out.

Also, why is Red on Mt. Silver?

To train. D: I don't think he died, and I don't think he severs ties forever, but that's all a personal fanon theory I won't get into here. D8;

What happened to Agatha or the Rocket Executives?

Agatha might have died. D: As a cruel irony of her thinking Oak is too soft, that she should be the one to die first.

And you mean how there is suddenly 4 Rocket Executives in HGSS, when there was only 2 in GSC? Or what happens to them? They get arrested, yes?

Where did Will and Karen come from?

They're strong trainers who took on the E4, won, and were offered positions when the first opening showed up.

Originally Posted by Poké-Ranger Mike

What about Leaf? Does she even exist? She not even mentioned in HGSS.

Sadly, thanks to HGSS, she don't exist anymore, just like Kris and the Sevii Islands. ._. It's just RBY and FRLG heroes who exist now. Official art don't mean squat. The FRLG heroine didn't appear in-game, so she's not real now.

I don't think it would have been that hard to put them into HGSS, but sadly, no. D: We have to accept that we'll never see the FRLG heroine and Kris again.

Originally Posted by Fairy Red

And you mean how there is suddenly 4 Rocket Executives in HGSS, when there was only 2 in GSC? Or what happens to them? They get arrested, yes?

No, I mean where did they go?

Originally Posted by Fairy Red

Sadly, thanks to HGSS, she don't exist anymore, just like Kris and the Sevii Islands. ._. It's just RBY and FRLG heroes who exist now. Official art don't mean squat. The FRLG heroine didn't appear in-game, so she's not real now.

Abscence of evidence is not evidence of abscence.

But the thing is, if you choose Red in FRLG, Leaf doesn't appear at all. The PC not selected in the other games is still involved in the story.

While I still believe that Leaf is the female Red due to their lack of coexistence, just because something isn't shown, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Why would the Sevii Islands not exist? Its existence isn't contradicted by any other games and has been shown to be the training ground of Bruno, who does exist, and the home of Lorelei, unless she suddenly stops existing as well. The Sevii Islands also showed where at least two of the four Rocket executives came from in HgSs.

The reason they didn't show the Sevii Island was because there was no purpose. The Pokemon there were Johto Pokemon, and there was no need for it. It was just there as a massive explanation as to why you couldn't trade to Hoenn games right away in FrLg.

And you mean how there is suddenly 4 Rocket Executives in HGSS, when there was only 2 in GSC? Or what happens to them? They get arrested, yes

There were clearly four, though it seemed like five since the Rocket Executive Petrel was based off of had two separate teams and Proton was a fusion of one Executive and one Grunt.

Its a shame they didn't put Green into HG/SS, actually; I'd have made female PC's fight her at the end, with males continuing to fight Red.
As it is, though, I'm afraid her lack of any NPC appearances in FR/LG makes her feel like no more than an alternate Red to me. As HG/SS exists in a universe where Red won the league, I'd say she does not exist. Shame.

Originally Posted by Summerhayes

Its a shame they didn't put Green into HG/SS, actually; I'd have made female PC's fight her at the end, with males continuing to fight Red.

Leaf, you mean (Green is from the English PokeSpe, not the games). But yes, it's a shame that doesn't happen.
I wanted it to, after I saw a fanart about it, but you can't have everything you want in life, now can you?


...anyways, where's Crystal, again? And what is it with the vanishing females in the Pokegames?
There's the chick that was to be included in GENI, but was taken out because of the limited tech; I don't buy it that Leaf is that gal, either. Then there's Agatha, about whom you pals have been speculating for a while...
Things like these make me think the Pokeverse is rather sexist/misogynistic.

Agatha probably died and came back as a Spiritomb.

My main thing is that I want to know which games come after which or what coincides with the other...

Meaning; So far we know Red/Blue/Green-FireRed/LeafGreen are definitely the first, preceding, of around 3-4 years, the Johto games of G/S/C-SS/HG. Are we to assume the Hoenn and Sinnoh games followed those events one after the other? Or did they occur at the same time?

Originally Posted by vee2x_paradox

My main thing is that I want to know which games come after which or what coincides with the other...

Meaning; So far we know Red/Blue/Green-FireRed/LeafGreen are definitely the first, preceding, of around 3-4 years, the Johto games of G/S/C-SS/HG. Are we to assume the Hoenn and Sinnoh games followed those events one after the other? Or did they occur at the same time?

As I heard it once, Hoenn happens alongside the only Kanto games, while Sinnoh does with the ones including Johto.

The only loose ends that I can come up with is the ancient civilization that built all the ruins containing the Unown (and this includes Spear Pillar, since the Shinjo Ruins have both the elements of Spear Pillar and the Ruins of Alph associated with it), the Unown themselves, and Cyrus' possible future plans and whereabouts (his whereabouts in D/P, since the Distortion World isn't in those games, but yet Cyrus still vows to continue like he does in Platinum).

Like what was brought up earlier, the Unown are probably the most mysterious Pokemon out there, since they are hardly touched up on. I mean, really? They were invented for some other reason as opposed to other Pokemon, because obviously they're not very good Pokemon to have with you in battles. They gotta have some other purpose besides randomly floating around in ancient ruins, and as proven in Johto there's clearly some scientists that are studying them to begin with.

Speaking of, I thought it was interesting how some people here have mentioned the possibility of this Prof. Silktree/Silkweed person being the possible Prof. for the Issu Region (Gen V region).

I didn't get to thinking about this until now, but here goes... in Platinum, just before Cyrus walks off in the Distortion World, he says something like "I will break the secrets of this world" before promising revenge or what-have-you. Exactly what secrets is he talking about, something that has yet to be touched up on even more or something completely new? Since most of the legends 'n stuff involved with the primary Legendaries have been somewhat resolved, what I think would be interesting is if the "secrets of the world" that Cyrus rants about in that particular quote is part of the unresolved stuff with the Unown, and that he tries to solve all that as part of a new plan of his.

I mean, you'd think that since Cynthia was also studying more into those myths as shown in D/P/Pt and the Arceus event in HG/SS, you would think that Cyrus could have/might be doing the same thing and not just studying the Dialga and Palkia myths.

It'd be really awesome if they could take Cyrus' story even further and combine it with the unresolved stuff with the Unown and all the other stuff the Unown are associated with, because the legends surrounding the Unown and the legends of Sinnoh clearly have some sort of connection.

...Long post is long. o.O

And that reminds me of another one. So in DP it's said that the Celestic mural is the fairies surrounding either Dialga or Palkia. It's sort of what the whole Red Chain plan is based around. But in Pt, Cynthia says she thinks it's mistaken and that it's really Dialga, Palkia, and Giratina surrounding Arceus.

In HGSS we find out she was right...but if she's right, then the Red Chain wouldn't have worked. But it did, which meant Cyrus was right! But they can't BOTH be right because those theories contradict each other! How can they both be right and both be wrong at the same time?