Insider bias in favor of Psychic and Dragon types? & Conspiracy VS Bug-types!?

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Thread: Insider bias in favor of Psychic and Dragon types? & Conspiracy VS Bug-types!?

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    Tim
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    Exclamation Insider bias in favor of Psychic and Dragon types? & Conspiracy VS Bug-types!?

    I have this belief that the developers have a bias in favor of Psychic-types. Yes, I know it sounds like a conspiracy theory to you, but please hear me out.

    Generation I: Beside the mentioned imbalance in the local wiki, the first Legendary Ubers were Psychics.

    Generation II: Even after it introduced Megahorn, the ONLY Pokemon at the time that can learn this by leveling up is Heracross, which is Bug/Fighting. In addition, it introduced Lugia and Celebi.

    Generation III: It introduced the first Psychic Pseudo in the form of Metagross. In addition, it also introduced Steel/Psychic and Psychic/Fighting combo types, as it debuted the newly-established tradition of introducing not two--as done in the first two generations--but four Psychic Legendaries! They are Jirachi, Deoxys, and both Lati@s.

    Generation IV: other than carrying over the 4 New Legendary Psychics in a generation, it also gave them Miracle Eye. In addition, Poison/Fighting Croagunk and Toxicroak debuted in this Gen.

    Yes, I know this is not complete, as I might have missed some more, but please feel free to give me your thought about this.
    --------------------------------------------------------------

    Update: due to "L"'s mention of Draco-lust, I want to add the following:

    Since Generation III, it has been a custom to debut three Legendaries of this type.

    III: Lati@s, Rayquaza
    IV: Dialga, Palkia, Giratina

    You may now also bitch, whine, moan, and groan about the Dragon-type, while you're at it.
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    In correlation to the insider bias in favor of Psychic-types, I've also noticed that there's a conspiracy theory VS Bug-types. Yes, this one's officially a conspiracy theory.

    So far...

    I: Yes, everybody knows by now the whole system back in RBY, as the only Bug-types available were Pin Missile (14 AP, 85% Acc.) and Twineedle (25 AP, 100% Acc.).

    II: After the demands from fans for Gamefreak to balance the game and give Bug-types a MORE powerful attack, it only came in the form of Megahorn, which was only learned by Heracross, a debut Pokemon of GSC. To add insult to injury, it was made into a Bug/Fighting. Sure, Scizor debuted in this gen., but it has a trade requirement, and not to mention the fact it didn't STAB Bug attacks. As for Forretress, it STABs NO Bug attacks at all.

    III: As debut Psychic-types get paired up with types resistant to Bug, this generation debuted:

    *Silver Wind, which has the same PP amount as that of and 90 SpA lower than Hyper Beam, 20 PP less than Bite
    *Bug Buzz, which is 5 SpA weaker and 5 PP less than Ice Beam/Flamethrower/Thunderbolt
    *Signal Beam, which is 20 SpA weaker than Ice Beam/Flamethrower/Thunderbolt and has the same PP amount as those three.

    Going back to Forretress, it can only STAB Pin Missile, via breeding, as mentioned in the local 'pedia.

    IV: Attack Order, which has 90 AP, 100% Accuracy, 15 PP, and High Critical, can only be learned by Vespiqueen, which is female. True, more Bug attacks were introduced in this generation, but the fact that Attack Order went by the way of Megahorn hampered this attack's chances to be STAB'd by MORE Bug-types that need this big gun.

    Looking ahead:

    V: Now, I'm practically speculating that once Gamefreak debuts the Psychic/Dark combo, it would allow most (if not, all) Psychics to learn either Flamethrower or Will-O-Wisp, should they decide to give Heracross a Bug/Steel evo, complete with either Compoundeyes or Swarm, or modify Attack Order in order to make it TM-able and "balanced," so to speak.
    Last edited by Tim; 18th April 2008 at 11:04 PM. Reason: "L" updated me with the whole insider lust for Dragons. Also, I could've sworn I've seen insider haterade towards Bug-types, as it was right in front of me all along.
    1. I thought Gardenia is a Grass-type fangirl; in addition, I could've sworn that she had a shippy Nando-centric flashback when the latter got framed.

    2. I'm tired of seeing Brock, being the designated eunuch of the show. As a result, I would love to see this OT3 to happen:

    Lucy x Brock x Holly

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    The Wings of a Butterfree Not Skarmory Armor's Avatar
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    Good point, but i sorta find this like a Pokemon form of the "Maganse iin the Malt Liquor Theory"


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    yandere=awesome Yamato-san's Avatar
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    not meaning to throw a wrench into this, but you forgot one very important thing: the introduction of the Dark-type in Generation 2. Even if the Bug-type didn't have a significant upgrade, as you mentioned, the Dark-type seemed to make up for it. Aside from being granted total immunity to their attacks (at least until Miracle Eye was introduced), there were a fair number of decent Pokemon initially introduced for the type, including Hellgar and Bangiras. Also, Bite (a move that was already learned by quite a few Pokemon) was turned into a Dark-type move. Ghost-types also had a significant upgrade, because the programmers finally fixed that glitch where Psychic was immune to Ghost instead of weak to it (despite the instruction manual and media of the first generation constantly implying otherwise). Plus, Ghost-type gained a move that didn't do set damage and wasn't the fucking pathetic Lick (I speak of Shadow Ball, which was also made a TM right off the bat).

    Bug also became more of a threat in later generations. With Fire Red/Leaf Green, Megahorn became accessible to more Pokemon (which aren't weak to Psychic-type attacks), and I think Bug-types benefited significantly from the 4th generation's changes. First of all is the designation of moves as physical or special (and the addition of Bug Buzz along with it), considering a lot of Bugs have high Special Attack and their STAB was only physical prior to generation 4. Silver Wind and X-Scissor as TMs doesn't seem too bad, neither.

    Yup, classes again. I'm gonna be at this for a while.

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    The Wings of a Butterfree Not Skarmory Armor's Avatar
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    Yes, but the into of Fightng/Psi and Psi/Fighting, defeated both Bug and Dark type moves against them. Also i keep getting messed up here, is Fighting Imune to Ghost, or just Normal?


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    discontented with winter VibuzeSG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skarmory Armor View Post
    Yes, but the into of Fightng/Psi and Psi/Fighting, defeated both Bug and Dark type moves against them. Also i keep getting messed up here, is Fighting Imune to Ghost, or just Normal?
    Ghosts cannot be affected by either Fighting or Normal moves, but Fighting types take damage from both types.

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    Tim
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yamato-san View Post
    not meaning to throw a wrench into this, but you forgot one very important thing: the introduction of the Dark-type in Generation 2. Even if the Bug-type didn't have a significant upgrade, as you mentioned, the Dark-type seemed to make up for it. Aside from being granted total immunity to their attacks (at least until Miracle Eye was introduced), there were a fair number of decent Pokemon initially introduced for the type, including [Houndoom] and [Tyranitar]. Also, Bite (a move that was already learned by quite a few Pokemon) was turned into a Dark-type move. Ghost-types also had a significant upgrade, because the programmers finally fixed that glitch where Psychic was immune to Ghost instead of weak to it (despite the instruction manual and media of the first generation constantly implying otherwise). Plus, Ghost-type gained a move that didn't do set damage and wasn't the fucking pathetic Lick (I speak of Shadow Ball, which was also made a TM right off the bat).
    True, I missed the intro of the Dark type... I'll give you that.
    But a Generation later, STAB-able Dark attacks just get neutralized by the Steel/Psychic and Psychic/Fighting combos, as Steel gives it high def., while Fighting is known to be beat sticks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yamato-san View Post
    [1]Bug also became more of a threat in later generations. With Fire Red/Leaf Green, Megahorn became accessible to more Pokemon (which aren't weak to Psychic-type attacks), [2]and I think Bug-types benefited significantly from the 4th generation's changes. First of all is the designation of moves as physical or special (and the addition of Bug Buzz along with it), considering a lot of Bugs have high Special Attack and their STAB was only physical prior to generation 4. [3]Silver Wind and X-Scissor as TMs doesn't seem too bad, neither.
    1. But still, none of them can STAB Megahorn. <_< Ironically, the Bug/Fighting Heracross is still the only Pokemon that can STAB it.
    2. But most of the decent/above average high SpA Bug-types have dual weakness to Rock, being part-Flying. *coughYanmegacough*
    3. The Big Kahuna of 100% Accuracy Bug Attacks, Attack Order, debuted as a Signature Move. Worse, it is currently only learned by Vespiqueen. The fact that it cannot be bred and be TM-learned makes it a waste. <_<
    1. I thought Gardenia is a Grass-type fangirl; in addition, I could've sworn that she had a shippy Nando-centric flashback when the latter got framed.

    2. I'm tired of seeing Brock, being the designated eunuch of the show. As a result, I would love to see this OT3 to happen:

    Lucy x Brock x Holly

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    XXXXXXXXXX Dragon Char's Avatar
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    I guess you forgot about Megahorn's status as the strongest Bug type move.
    Step into the Fairy circle

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    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Not like Miracle eye is even that useful when your trying to kill Dark Types.

    And what are you talking about that Megahorn is the only strong STAB Bug move? There's X-Scissor, and Bug Buzz.

    Its obvious that Gamefreak has gone overboard wit their lust for psychics and have tried to even out the playing field. Its not as if we can say they loved them that much, I mean Psychic is a terrible stab move.

    Dragon seems to be Game Freak's new love interest with DragonDance Outrage and Chocie Specs Draco meteor, who is guaranteed to kill anyone who is not resistant to it. Unfortunately the only ones who are immune are steel types, and those dragons can also take care of them with Earthquake or a fire move.

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    The Wings of a Butterfree Not Skarmory Armor's Avatar
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    I personally think that Fire types are the ones that get slapped around. With only 3 total Fire Types Avalible In-game before the E4, and the only two good OU ones ar eInferape and Heatran.. I think.


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    Clarion of Revelations Feliciano's Avatar Social Media Editor
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    You can't get Heatran before you go the the Elite Four...you have to wait until you have the National Dex AND beat them. Which means the ONLY decent fire-type in-game before the Elite Four is Infernape. I know, seeing as how my love of Torterra leaves Rapidash as my ONLY fire option...and Rapidash really stinks in this gen. But yeah, I'm with you, fire types are constantly getting the short end of the stick in every generation -- especially with the introduction of water/ground types.
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    yandere=awesome Yamato-san's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skarmory Armor View Post
    Yes, but the into of Fightng/Psi and Psi/Fighting, defeated both Bug and Dark type moves against them. Also i keep getting messed up here, is Fighting Imune to Ghost, or just Normal?
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim View Post
    True, I missed the intro of the Dark type... I'll give you that.
    But a Generation later, STAB-able Dark attacks just get neutralized by the Steel/Psychic and Psychic/Fighting combos, as Steel gives it high def., while Fighting is known to be beat sticks.
    why do you two insist on overlooking the prominent weaknesses of the OTHER type? Psychic/Fighting can still be hurt by Fighting's weakness to Flying (and yes, Psychic's weakness to Ghost still applies), and Steel/Psychic is weak to Fire and Ground, the latter being a very commonly-exploited weakness thanks to the popularity of Earthquake.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skarmory Armor View Post
    I personally think that Fire types are the ones that get slapped around. With only 3 total Fire Types Avalible In-game before the E4, and the only two good OU ones ar eInferape and Heatran.. I think.
    no kidding. Let's not forget the fact that, despite a lot of Fire-types having a high Attack stat, their STAB was previously Special and they introduced a rather shitty selection of physical attacks this generation. I mean, it's a choice between a weak attack that doesn't even have 100% accuracy, an equally weak attack that has 100% accuracy but is learned by a horribly limited amount of Pokemon, a high-powered move that's tarnished by recoil, and Fire Punch, which is probably the most decent option with no real drawbacks (albeit its attack power is comparitively low at 70, whereas most popular attacks are at least 80). There's also Sacred Fire (which is exclusive), and Natural Gift but... I don't think I need to explain what's wrong with that. The sad thing is that some of these Pokemon (like Booster and Entei) could've worked with at least Blitz Drive, but they couldn't even have gotten that (even though it makes a helluva lot of sense.... I mean, god forbid that four-legged Pokemon have an attack that simply involves charging into the opponent while discharging their inherent element, not requiring the use of any particular appendages like fists). They better fucking fix those movesets in Giratina's version/GS remake/whatever.

    Poison is another type that's gotten shat on over the years. First, Generation 2 brings a type that's outright immune to it, and they removed its advantage against Bug, one of its only two advantages (and in Generation 1, this advantage couldn't even be played up because most Grass and Bug-types in the first generation kept getting paired up with, ironically, Poison. Though to be fair, Generation 2 made Poison physical, which benefited most of the Poison-types due to their preference in Attack over Special Attack, plus they fixed a glitch where Bug is super-advantage against them... too bad Bug was a shitty offensive type in Generation 1 anyway, with its best attack probably being Twinneedle). Generation 3.... eh, I can't say much of any development for the type occurred at that time (maybe the addition of Poison Fang).

    Generation 4 kinda damaged it a bit with the physical/special split. The popular Sludge Bomb became Special (and as mentioned before, most Poison-types are physical attackers, so this did few of them a favor), and while they did introduce a physical equivalent in Poison Jab (which is also a TM), its power is slightly lower than Sludge Bomb's. Also, much as the case with Booster and Entei, at least one Pokemon that greatly benefited from physical Sludge Bomb (Utsubot) couldn't even get Poison Jab (which also doesn't make much sense.... I mean, you'd think that vine it has with the pointy tip could've been used for the purposes of stabbing. It also got screwed out of Mega Whip, for that matter). At least Gunk Shot seems like a worthy addition (and Cross Poison, though most the Pokemon who get it don't even use it as STAB). Now, maybe Poison's not really meant to be offensive because, as the name itself should imply, it's intended to be a type that plays with traditional RPG status conditions more than anything. However, this seems to be a moot point when practically EVERY Pokemon could learn Toxic since Generation 1 (though, Poison's immunity to Toxic is a noteworthy advantage). Also, in the in-game environment at least, the use of status conditions is probably unpopular anyway (this could be blamed on RPGs and their tendency to make bosses immune to them, thus only working on common enemies who could probably be just as well offed in one or two hits).

    Yup, classes again. I'm gonna be at this for a while.

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    Tim
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    Quote Originally Posted by "L" View Post
    [1]Not like Miracle eye is even that useful when your trying to kill Dark Types.

    [2]And what are you talking about that Megahorn is the only strong STAB Bug move? There's X-Scissor, and Bug Buzz.

    [3]Its obvious that Gamefreak has gone overboard wit their lust for psychics and have tried to even out the playing field. Its not as if we can say they loved them that much, I mean Psychic is a terrible stab move.
    1. Please refer to Drapion and Skuntank for references. If these two were meant to be display of progress to balance out the game, I find it ironic that Gamefreak would actually introduce Miracle Eye in the same generation as Drapion and Skuntank.

    2. Why give up accuracy for power? Besides, Megahorn isn't the Holy Grail of 100%-Accurate Physical Bug attacks; it's Attack Order, the only known Bug attack that has a High Critical. As for Bug Buzz, please name me a non-weak- on-Rock-type-Bug-type-that-has-a-good-SpA-that-can-STAB-it . <_<

    3. True, while Gamefreak has come into their senses after wanking and lusting over the Psychic-type, I still doubt that will stop them from debuting six Psychic Legendaries, starting from Gen. V to VI.
    1. I thought Gardenia is a Grass-type fangirl; in addition, I could've sworn that she had a shippy Nando-centric flashback when the latter got framed.

    2. I'm tired of seeing Brock, being the designated eunuch of the show. As a result, I would love to see this OT3 to happen:

    Lucy x Brock x Holly

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    my sweet lord... Swampert tamer's Avatar
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    There's also the pokemon Wobbufet which is particularly known for its "battle skills". It also belong to the Psychic type despite not having anything to do with it. Excluding Mirror Coat it doesn't have any Psychic power.

    And Unown, they also are very peculiar pokemon which also belong to the psychic type.
    Last edited by Swampert tamer; 9th April 2008 at 10:43 AM.

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    discontented with winter VibuzeSG's Avatar
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    Personally, I don't think Miracle Eye is as great as everyone's making it seem. Is it worth it to waste a valuable slot in your moveset for a move that only affects Dark-types?

    That being said, if anything messed with Dark's superiority over Psychic-Types, it's those new Fighting attacks that use the Special Attack--Aura Sphere and Focus Blast. It makes much more sense for something like Alakazam to be running one of those than Miracle Eye.

    But still, for as broken as it was in Generation 1, Psychic isn't that unfair these days. There are plenty of good counters for Psychic-types, especially with the ever-increasing popularity of special walls like Blissey.

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    The Wings of a Butterfree Not Skarmory Armor's Avatar
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    Aura Sphere is only usuable by Ubers, Lucario and Togekiss

    I think Focus Blast would have been better as a Psychic(Move) variant I'm for Acc. over Power.


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