God Pokemon?

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  1. #1
    l33t lurker Irinya's Avatar
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    Question God Pokemon?

    This has been bothering me of a while now. In DP we were introduced to Dialga and Palkia, legendary pokemon that - according to legend - created the Shinnoh region; in RSE, we have a similar case, though this time it was not pokemon that bend time and space, but just strong water and ground pokemon whose battle shaped to continents. In the end of these versions, we were able to capture the legendary pokemon, and sort of 'own' a god (or a god-like creature).

    Here the catch though: are legendary pokemon really that powerful? I think that they are just that: legends. Possibly the ancient people of the Pokemon world witnessed the battles between these pokemon, or somehow found out about their power(s), and created myths to go along with them. Isn't it possible that the strength of these pokes is just exaggerated by human folklore? To me it seems highly unlikely that humans can 'own' a god.

    What do you think?
    Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. ~ Rick Cook, The Wizardry Compiled

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    my sweet lord... Swampert tamer's Avatar
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    If you want my opinion, I agree with you.

    It seems to me that the creators of pokemon have been exagerating A BIT ever since the legendaries of the 3rd generation... The creator of the sea? The creator of the land? Ok, those two I've put up with but the, "guardian of planet", flying endlessly at the ozone layer?
    If someone is supposly doing something like that then how can it even be seen or captured? We shouldn't even know that such thing actually exists...

    I'm not very familiar with the 4th generation yet, but saying that these Sinnoh legends are gods that created things like Time and Space... There's no way they can prove that, those legends must be absolutely bogus, because there wasn't any life form present to witness those creations... And that's why I don't like the 4th generation, or at least what I've seen of it.

    I prefer not to believe on those legends. Because there is no kind of proof, while, for exemple about Ho-Oh having escaped the tower when it was attacked (or set in flames, whatever the legend varies form different sources) there were people there that watched that event and told what they saw to their sons, and that "witness" passed generation through generation...

    And even if those legends were true, I doubt that the legendaries that you catch in the games are really the ones who created the time and space... maybe there are multiple palkias and diaglas who don't have the power of the true original ones, but who are catchable and actually exist, because they simply can't be that powerful, or they would never accept (battle) orders from humans, much less from a 10-16 old one... Just like there are multiple Lugias and only one has the ability to calm down the Winged Mirages rage...
    Last edited by Swampert tamer; 19th March 2008 at 06:22 PM. Reason: Not quite familiar with this generation yet. Sorry if I have mistaken in the names. I refer to the version maskots of D/P

  3. #3
    Wailord Punk Cheesus Is Lord's Avatar
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    Within the games, this makes a lot of sense (especially when you run into legendaries in the Battle Tower... isn't there only supposed to be ONE Regigigas?). Although I find it a lot more fun to believe that here I am, capturing God, I know that it doesn't actually make sense.

    The anime, however, paints a totally different picture. No one ever successfully manages to capture a legendary Pokemon, and those who try always have to build some kind of ridiculous machine to even hope for a chance. Many legends use their extraordinary powers as well, doing things that normal Pokemon, or even non-Gods, could never do.
    If 50 Cent had been STAB'd instead of shot, he would be 75 Cent.

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    A black and white world Blackjack Gabbiani's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheesus Is Lord View Post
    No one ever successfully manages to capture a legendary Pokemon, and those who try always have to build some kind of ridiculous machine to even hope for a chance.
    Well, Brandon has a "ridiculous machine" inasmuch as he has the Battle Pyramid, but I don't think he used it to capture the Regis.

    And I suppose it also depends if you consider a custom pokeball to be "ridiculous" (ie, the Dark Balls).

  5. #5
    Wailord Punk Cheesus Is Lord's Avatar
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    I was thinking more along the lines of that thing Lawrence III used in the second movie.
    If 50 Cent had been STAB'd instead of shot, he would be 75 Cent.

  6. #6
    A black and white world Blackjack Gabbiani's Avatar
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    Well yes, but he's only one of three.


    ...dammit, did I just make a pun?

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    l33t lurker Irinya's Avatar
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    But isn't there a possibility that legends are just pokemon exaggerated my myths? So, technically they can be caught like any other poke. For some reason, to me they just seem like almost extinct animals in our world; or dinosaurs.
    Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning. ~ Rick Cook, The Wizardry Compiled

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    A black and white world Blackjack Gabbiani's Avatar
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    There's that possibility too. Or it could be some of each.

    We already know, at least in the anime, that you can't trust the pokedex.

  9. #9
    my sweet lord... Swampert tamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irinya View Post
    But isn't there a possibility that legends are just pokemon exaggerated my myths?
    I agree. Let's use Groudon and Kyogre as examples. According to legends, these two pokemon created the lands/continents and the sea. But how did they do something like that exactually?

    In the games we see that Groudon has the power to summon massive sunlights, but how does this helped creating the continents? It could only make the water evaporate, creating a lot of clouds in the sky, and sooner or later the water would fall again in the form of rain.
    If Kyogre has the power to summon heavy rainfalls it must use the water of someplace in order to use it with its ability - it can't simply make water appear from nowhere, unless it uses water stored inside it's body. But how could it expand the sea by doing this? Impossible.

    These pokemon have the power to play with the cicle of the water, and maybe they can change a region's meteorological characteristics, that's all.
    Because even when it rains or during a draught the quantity of water in the planet never changes.
    It's not like what (more or less) Steven said in the games "At this rate the whole region of Hoenn, no the intaire world will sink with this heavy rainfall" (something like that) (in pokemon sapphire I guess).
    Even if it made Hoenn became with more water by invading the lands, it would never make the entire world become "landless".
    Last edited by Swampert tamer; 20th March 2008 at 08:54 AM.

  10. #10
    GREEN! Green Cherrim's Avatar
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    Legendaries are totally just Pokemon with great strength and amazing elusive-ness. It's like how humans thought rhinos were unicorns. They just are rare.

  11. #11
    Digitized Government Gazel Ministry's Avatar
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    I think we need to suspend disbelief when we play these games. Really, the games don't make much sense, what is one more flight of fancy?

    Though, yeah, God as a Pokemon is a little galling.
    Last edited by Gazel Ministry; 24th March 2008 at 11:08 AM.

  12. #12
    Nothing of interest here Perxio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gazel Ministry View Post
    I think we need to suspend disbelief when we play these games. Really, the games don't make much sense, what is one more flight of fancy?

    Though, yeah, God as a Pokemon is a little galling.
    The can of wurmples has been opened.

    Ah well, I still have to point out: Arceus isn't God. The closest it would be related to would be that Chinese creation myth of Pangu. The only similarity between Arceus and the Christian/Islamic/Jewish/etc God is the whole creation and being the first thing. It isn't God as a pokemon, but a Pokemon god, and if we want to get even more nitpicky here, Arceus may NOT have created the Pokemon universe- so maybe that's the ONE similarity between modern-day gods and Arceus: everything's debatable.

    I think some or even many of the myths in Pokemon can get by because...eh, just take a look at the Pokemon. They're unbelievable in of themselves, whatever you see them from: the video games, anime, manga. The Pokedex entries are to be taken with a grain of salt, that's pretty much confirmed, but you can just see something simple as a torchic or something and say "...wow, how the heck, it's a chicken that can breath fire". There's only so much logic or so much realism you can expect from Pokemon or try to squeeze from it.

  13. #13
    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Nothing in Arceus's creation myth even matches up with that of Christianity, so I always get annoyed when they compare it to that religion, along with Giratina. Just because its called the Creation Pkemon does not make it synonymous to Christianity, unless of course you want to ignore the fact that all other religions, ancient or modern have their own creation myth. This also makes me wonder why on Bulbapedia it says that the three pixies have traits of the christian God. Uxie is Omnimiscent, Azelf is Omnipotent, and Uxie Omnipresent. I see where they get the one for Uxie, but the other two just seems thrown in there.

    To get back on topic, is Arceism even a modern day religion, or something of the ancient past? I mean I don't see how its so hard to believe that these "god" Pokemon were only called gods by the ancients because of their "godlike powers"

    Surely Kyogre with its instant rain and ability to cause tidal waves, and Groudon with its son and earthquakes, whcih could look like a Pokemon "raising the land" could seem godlike. Why are we even calling them "gods"? Is it because the Pokedex says so? If that's the case then Bronzong should also be refered to as a god since the Pokemdex refers it as one, atleast in the Japanese version.

  14. #14
    Digitized Government Gazel Ministry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ralli View Post
    The can of wurmples has been opened.

    Ah well, I still have to point out: Arceus isn't God. The closest it would be related to would be that Chinese creation myth of Pangu. The only similarity between Arceus and the Christian/Islamic/Jewish/etc God is the whole creation and being the first thing. It isn't God as a pokemon, but a Pokemon god, and if we want to get even more nitpicky here, Arceus may NOT have created the Pokemon universe- so maybe that's the ONE similarity between modern-day gods and Arceus: everything's debatable.

    I think some or even many of the myths in Pokemon can get by because...eh, just take a look at the Pokemon. They're unbelievable in of themselves, whatever you see them from: the video games, anime, manga. The Pokedex entries are to be taken with a grain of salt, that's pretty much confirmed, but you can just see something simple as a torchic or something and say "...wow, how the heck, it's a chicken that can breath fire". There's only so much logic or so much realism you can expect from Pokemon or try to squeeze from it.
    I kind of agree about Arceus. Frankly, I imagine his creation was something like this:

    Poke Dev: Hey, wouldn't a pokemon that created the whole universe be awesome?! We can make it an event pokemon and people will buy it and go to our stores!

    Nintendo Suit: Sure, go for it!

    Obviously a simplification, but I'm certain that that's the core of Arceus's design.

  15. #15
    追放されたバカ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outrage View Post
    Nothing in Arceus's creation myth even matches up with that of Christianity, so I always get annoyed when they compare it to that religion, along with Giratina. Just because its called the Creation Pkemon does not make it synonymous to Christianity, unless of course you want to ignore the fact that all other religions, ancient or modern have their own creation myth. This also makes me wonder why on Bulbapedia it says that the three pixies have traits of the christian God. Uxie is Omnimiscent, Azelf is Omnipotent, and Uxie Omnipresent. I see where they get the one for Uxie, but the other two just seems thrown in there.
    If you were talking about my various rants in regards to Arceus "Not being a god due to It's being captured, among others", I wasn't referring to the Christian God at ALL, I was referring to the likes of the Greek and Roman gods, among others. You know, Zeus/Jupiter, Hera/Juno, Aphrodite/Venus, etc, etc.

    I mean, remember that Pirithous Myth where he tried to capture Persephone, and yet failed due to Hades tricking him and his friend? Well, that is proof enough that NO Mortal could EVER capture a god, no matter what kind of technology they have or how powerful they are, etc, etc.

    Plus, they can't kill their gods, due to the fact that they say "Di Immortales" a lot (which literally means "By the immortal gods" in latin), and when a mortal tries to kill one of the gods, they end up murdered by them since the mortals attacks have absolutely no effect on them.

    Plus, a god can't be commanded by mortals. If anything, considering how many mythos work, it's the other way around.

    Basically, to sum it up for the topic, since Arceus (or ANY legendary for that matter) is captured and commanded in some way, shape or form by mere mortals (ie, either an evil group or you, or in the case of movies, an insane member [or ex-member, with Butler] or a collector, or Brandon, even.), and, in the case of the Games and even the anime to a certain extent (Celebi's fate as well as Mewtwo and Raikou nearly croaking) even KO a legendary, they just simply aren't gods, regardless of whether it's by the Christian God's standards or the ancient Greek/Roman false gods standards.

    Anyways, that's all for now.
    Last edited by Weedle Mchairybug; 25th March 2008 at 05:45 PM.

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