Ghetsis - Not a complete monster by TV Tropes? - Page 2

View Poll Results: Is Ghetsis a complete monster in your eyes?

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  • Yes, he is based on what I have seen in the games.

    12 66.67%
  • I do not know.

    3 16.67%
  • No, he is just a jerkass.

    3 16.67%
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Thread: Ghetsis - Not a complete monster by TV Tropes?

  1. #16

    Default Re: Ghetsis - Not a complete monster by TV Tropes?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheCableGuy View Post
    In a way, Ghetsis's Emotional outburst at the end of BW2 at being called "Father" might be the most telling clue as to showing that he has not yet Crossed that line.
    I tend to agree with this. Ghetsis' losing his marbles makes it hard to know how would he act if he were sane.

  2. #17
    In glorious technicolor The Outrage's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ghetsis - Not a complete monster by TV Tropes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos-Zero View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Grass Type Trainer View Post
    In my opinion, Ghetsis is pretty bad. However, in the grand scheme of evil villains in fiction, he comes off as kind of cookie cutter. Does this mean he's not a complete monster? No, he probably is, by Pokemon standards. Still, I dunno, I find that he just doesn't match up to more complex and better executed complete monsters in fiction. I think Cyrus is more deserving of the title.
    You should know, that Cyrus is a well intentioned extremist, albeit a very twisted one. He seeks to recreate the universe which is devoid of any emotion. As he sees it, emotions brought him nothing but suffering, which I can understand very well. Worthy to note is, that he has a Crobat, which means he does care about his Pokemon.
    A Crobat does not necessarily mean he cares about his Pokemon. Look at the quote given for the Friendship checker in HgSs. It can also mean that Crobat has developed a strong sense of trust and devotion toward Cyrus and this was sufficient for evolution. Given how his admins act toward him, and how he was able to gather such a large following, it's not surprising that Cyrus would have a lot of charisma and therefore inspire a great deal of devotion in his followers--both human and Pokemon. It doesn't mean he cared about them. That doesn't mean he isn't a well-intentioned extremist though, as his lack of caring stems from his philosophy that emotions are problematic.

    Cyrus at least sought to make the world a better place. What did Ghetsis have? He manipulated a child for who knows how long just so he can have him act as the hero of Unova, knowing that he, himself, could not possibly summon one of the twin Dragons. He made people believe that separating humans and Pokemon were for the best, and while there is an argument that humans have the potential to abuse Pokemon, he wanted to do it so that he would be unopposed when he decides to take over Unova. I have no doubts that Ghetsis, at the time, already knew of Kyurem's existence and may have planned to capture it after N had separated humans and Pokemon in order for him to take control of N's dragon.

    Sure, both Cyrus and Ghetsis manipulated countless people, but Cyrus did it to end what he perceived to be the cause of the world's problems, Ghetsis did it to be on top.

    Though, there would be a better discussion if we knew why the people at TVTropes refuses to see Ghetsis as a complete monster?

  3. #18

    Default Re: Ghetsis - Not a complete monster by TV Tropes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos-Zero View Post
    Though, there would be a better discussion if we knew why the people at TVTropes refuses to see Ghetsis as a complete monster?
    Maybe it's a draco in leather pants thing?

  4. #19
    Onduru ruragittan disukaa Garren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ghetsis - Not a complete monster by TV Tropes?

    Though, there would be a better discussion if we knew why the people at TVTropes refuses to see Ghetsis as a complete monster?
    They want to have sex with him, probably.

    Anyway, I have to say, I don't know if Ghetsis is entirely villainous because the Shadow Triad certainly appear to be loyal to him, as do some of the Sages, with one of them I believe mentioning how Ghetsis greatly inspired them in BW, especially Zinzolin. I mean, he's definitely a straight-up villain, but I'd say if multiple people are willingly loyal to him, he can't be a complete monster.

  5. #20
    真実の英雄 smalllady's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ghetsis - Not a complete monster by TV Tropes?

    Quote Originally Posted by stickerstaryoshi View Post
    Maybe it's a draco in leather pants thing?
    Uhhh no, it's definitely not that.

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  6. #21

    Default Re: Ghetsis - Not a complete monster by TV Tropes?

    Quote Originally Posted by smalllady View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by stickerstaryoshi View Post
    Maybe it's a draco in leather pants thing?
    Uhhh no, it's definitely not that.
    This IS TVtropes we're talking about, or do I have to link you to Fetish Fuel? :P

  7. #22
    真実の英雄 smalllady's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ghetsis - Not a complete monster by TV Tropes?

    Quote Originally Posted by stickerstaryoshi View Post
    This IS TVtropes we're talking about, or do I have to link you to Fetish Fuel? :P
    Please don't. I'd rather ignore the dark corners of the internet that do think of Ghetsis as a Draco In Leather Pants.

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  8. #23
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    Default Re: Ghetsis - Not a complete monster by TV Tropes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tendou Soujirou View Post
    Anyway, I have to say, I don't know if Ghetsis is entirely villainous because the Shadow Triad certainly appear to be loyal to him, as do some of the Sages, with one of them I believe mentioning how Ghetsis greatly inspired them in BW, especially Zinzolin. I mean, he's definitely a straight-up villain, but I'd say if multiple people are willingly loyal to him, he can't be a complete monster.
    Being able to manipulate people into being loyal towards you doesn't mean you're not a complete monster, it means you're manipulative. I can think of a few historical figures that we'd all agree is a "complete monster" that inspired loyalty in others, and I'm sure you can too. He raised the Shadow Triad to be his body guards.

  9. #24
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    Default Re: Ghetsis - Not a complete monster by TV Tropes?

    I suspect Ghetsis counts.

    Honestly, Human-On-Pokémon violence is rare in the games in in B/W2, him using Kyurem to freeze the player alive is well beyond what the games show.
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  10. #25
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    Default Re: Ghetsis - Not a complete monster by TV Tropes?

    He brainwashed his own kid and locked him up in a room underground for his selfish intentions. He's already a monster by default.
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  12. #27
    真実の英雄 smalllady's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ghetsis - Not a complete monster by TV Tropes?

    You forgot this gem that came after the first argument:

    I admit, adding a Pokemon villain just doesn't seem right to me, regardless of how badly he abused his 'mons. It's like putting someone on the list for dog abuse.
    I guess animal abuse isn't impressive enough for the TVTropes contributors. And people wonder why I have such disdain for them.
    Last edited by smalllady; 25th April 2013 at 01:45 PM.

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  13. #28
    Of your Imagination Evil Figment's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    Default Re: Ghetsis - Not a complete monster by TV Tropes?

    TVTropes used to be an interesting and fun fandoms site. Then they started taking themselves seriously.

    Used to be that they said "We are not wikipedia" to mean they were more laid back than wiki. Now it means they've managed to push the stick way further up their ass.

    If I was in the mood for dealign with the consequence of a major inter-site war, I could point out the gaping hole in their whole "must happen on-screen" argument (so with a novel...it only count if it's describe in the book by the narrator, and it doesn't count if it's described in the dialogue by a character?), into a beautiful front-page editorial.
    Last edited by Evil Figment; 25th April 2013 at 03:18 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mintaka and Hurristat
    He's an evil director / He'll give out infractions / Do something wrong / And he takes direct actions
    Then what'll he do?/ He'll permaban you / You find your name slashed / With a message, 'Adieu'
    Sooooo...watch out!
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  14. #29
    Onduru ruragittan disukaa Garren's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ghetsis - Not a complete monster by TV Tropes?

    I thought the problem with TVTropes is...well, they're dumb. And literally filled with pedophile apologists.

    I still don't think Ghetsis is a completely villainous monster though, certainly not comparable to Hitler, Mao, and Stalin (of course who knows what he would've done if he gained control of the Legendaries), and I believe that the Shadow Triad stand-by-him for more than simply blind loyalty. If anything, Professor Colress is the dude who I kind of consider a sociopath because he treated what Team Plasma did as a mere science experiment and in the end just goes "oh well, looks like my theory was wrong!" and gets off pretty easily by the game. That kind of bothered me. That's not to say Ghetsis should've been let free or anything, but I don't particularly consider him to be a villain who made me sick at how evil he was. But that's probably the writing quality more so than the actions. Plus I hated N so I didn't care that he was abused.

  15. #30
    Of your Imagination Evil Figment's Avatar Vice-Webmaster
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    Default Re: Ghetsis - Not a complete monster by TV Tropes?

    Yeah, let's not call them pedophile apologists.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mintaka and Hurristat
    He's an evil director / He'll give out infractions / Do something wrong / And he takes direct actions
    Then what'll he do?/ He'll permaban you / You find your name slashed / With a message, 'Adieu'
    Sooooo...watch out!
    "It is said that the federal government, if it was in charge of the Sahara, would run out of sand in five years. Private enterprise, being more efficient, would do it in half the time - and they'd make money off the bridges." - me.
    "My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world." - Jack Layton's last letter. Rest in peace, Jack.

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