Garchomp's Tier Shift

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    Clarion of Revelations Feliciano's Avatar Social Media Editor
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    Default Garchomp's Tier Shift

    Source: http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45619

    So, now according to Smogon's Test Voting Site,Garchomp has now officially been moved into the Uber tier. Thoughts, concerns, opinions?

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    A black and white world Blackjack Gabbiani's Avatar
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    Anyway, how is it that Smogon got to be the ones that everyone listens to about things like this? What if someone disagrees? And it's not like Game Freak gives a damn, so what's the big deal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjack Palazzo View Post
    Anyway, how is it that Smogon got to be the ones that everyone listens to about things like this? What if someone disagrees? And it's not like Game Freak gives a damn, so what's the big deal?
    It's because they're serious business. I dunno, I will always see the Chomp as OU.
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    :3 shedinjask's Avatar
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    Anyway, how is it that Smogon got to be the ones that everyone listens to about things like this? What if someone disagrees? And it's not like Game Freak gives a damn, so what's the big deal?
    They're only deciding for their site and Shoddy server. It's not like anyone has to listen to them, though most do. If someone disagrees then they can say so when they request a battle, and others who disagree can battle them.

    Gamefreak doesn't know shit about competitive Pokemon. That's our job, and so we make rules.
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchboi View Post
    And the people who are like a penis goes in a vagina, I can't remember the last wedding i was at where the reverand said do you take this penis for your vagina.
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    Quote Originally Posted by shedinjask View Post
    Gamefreak doesn't know shit about competitive Pokemon. That's our job, and so we make rules.
    Correction, these "rules" aren't really rules, more like guidelines to the competitive metagame.

    You have absolutely no obligation to follow them. They just exist because people have actually tested out to see what works best.

    Any game with multiplayer that has differences between the playing pieces is going to have a metagame to it.

    Also, I'm pretty damn certain that the designers of the game themselves know how their own battle system works, they just don't really know or care about how their system will turn out. They just introduce a new concept and see how that works in the existing metagame. If it intergrates well, they don't change it, however, if a problem arises, they fix it by introducing new elements. Such as giving a Pokémon a move or changing the effects of the move.
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    :3 shedinjask's Avatar
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    Yeah, I guess I should have said 'care' instead of 'know'. Their BT ban list is remarkably similar to our Ubers list, and they did implement Sleep and Freeze clauses on PBR. They just don't actually care.

    They kind of are rules. They restrict things to make the game better, call them what you will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchboi View Post
    And the people who are like a penis goes in a vagina, I can't remember the last wedding i was at where the reverand said do you take this penis for your vagina.
    YOU THINK THIS IS FUNNY?!?

    one sentence porn meme!

    pokemon anon kink meme! careful it's rated 'r' for 'really sexy'

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    U R FUBAR Psychotic_Darkrai's Avatar
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    They're rules no matter what. They're rules that are restricting the competitive field from actually being challenging. This uber shifting crap, and this sleep clause crap drives me crazy. When I battle online or with friends, I don't care what they use. Just as long as no pokemon are hacked, I'm fine. I don't care if anyone's team has six ubers on it. I just have fun.


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    Wailord Punk Cheesus Is Lord's Avatar
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    If someone knows what they are doing, a team with six ubers is practically unbeatable without also using ubers. This makes the game boring very fast, as there aren't many options there. If you don't mind playing with ubers, that's fine, but the rule makes sense.

    Back on topic, I don't know. In many ways, Garchomp was very difficult to counter in the OU, but to say that its lack of counters was enough to move it into ubers... I don't know. I'm on the fence about this one. It did certainly centralize the metagame somewhat around it, but I'm not sure whether it was enough for the tier shift.
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    It'll probably end up like Wobba and drift in and out of OU and Uber for a while.

    Until the 5th gen introduces something even more powerful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjack Palazzo View Post
    Anyway, how is it that Smogon got to be the ones that everyone listens to about things like this? What if someone disagrees? And it's not like Game Freak gives a damn, so what's the big deal?
    I don't know, maybe it was because Smogon was basically one of the first competitive fansites and is the largest english speaking one. Oh yeah and the hundreds of competitive battlers who actually went out and tested this stuff, but obviously they don't count at all.

    Oh and the big deal is that it allows for a more balanced metagame.

    And if you disagree, make an account and put up a legitamate arguement. They encourage it. What they don't encourage is people who have no prior experience in competitive battling (and wifi battles with your friends don't really count as experience) randomly attacking what hundreds of users have spent hours testing to see whether it is banned or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychotic_Darkrai View Post
    They're rules no matter what. They're rules that are restricting the competitive field from actually being challenging. This uber shifting crap, and this sleep clause crap drives me crazy.
    Funny, the whole point of banning the Pokemon in the uber metagame is to make it less constricting for other Pokemon who can't compete. I mean Pokemon like Nidoqueen were actually seeing a vast change in usage in the test ladder, and Magnezone was poping up again.

    Oh yeah, obviously the sleep clause is so bad when it keeps from Chocie Scarf breloom from sporing you to death. Oh and ffyi Sleep Clause was a standard clause in most Pokemon games that had tournaments in them up until Generation IV.

    And I see no one stopping you from using a team of UUs in ubers if you want a challenge so badly. I mean I see a lot of good players using UU in OU for a challenge and win. Less talk more action.
    [i]
    Originally Posted by shedinjask
    Gamefreak doesn't know shit about competitive Pokemon. That's our job, and so we make rules.
    Dark and steel types beg to differ, aswell as Hypnosis apparantly chanigng in accuracy within the same generation.


    Also why does it matter to the majority of Bulbagarden-users? Its not like this place is that big on competitive battling. Most of you guys aren't even what one would consider a competitive battler and these guidelines don't apply to you.

    Its not as if I give a shit that Garchomp is uber if I'm using it in the Battle Frontier.

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    I honestly don't expect Garchomp to be in Ubers for too long either. He'll probably end up being like bottom rung since ubers is well... Ubers.

    I also expect him to be nerfed somehow by the 5th generation and made about equal as Tyranitar is now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outrage DD View Post
    I don't know, maybe it was because Smogon was basically one of the first competitive fansites and is the largest english speaking one. Oh yeah and the hundreds of competitive battlers who actually went out and tested this stuff, but obviously they don't count at all.

    Oh and the big deal is that it allows for a more balanced metagame.

    And if you disagree, make an account and put up a legitamate arguement. They encourage it. What they don't encourage is people who have no prior experience in competitive battling (and wifi battles with your friends don't really count as experience) randomly attacking what hundreds of users have spent hours testing to see whether it is banned or not.



    Funny, the whole point of banning the Pokemon in the uber metagame is to make it less constricting for other Pokemon who can't compete. I mean Pokemon like Nidoqueen were actually seeing a vast change in usage in the test ladder, and Magnezone was poping up again.

    Oh yeah, obviously the sleep clause is so bad when it keeps from Chocie Scarf breloom from sporing you to death. Oh and ffyi Sleep Clause was a standard clause in most Pokemon games that had tournaments in them up until Generation IV.

    And I see no one stopping you from using a team of UUs in ubers if you want a challenge so badly. I mean I see a lot of good players using UU in OU for a challenge and win. Less talk more action.
    [i]

    Dark and steel types beg to differ, aswell as Hypnosis apparantly chanigng in accuracy within the same generation.


    Also why does it matter to the majority of Bulbagarden-users? Its not like this place is that big on competitive battling. Most of you guys aren't even what one would consider a competitive battler and these guidelines don't apply to you.

    Its not as if I give a shit that Garchomp is uber if I'm using it in the Battle Frontier.

    Ooh, aren't you all cool? I want to be like you. /sarcasm/ I don't see you on serebii beating the best of the best, I don't see you tutoring others in smogon. Don't talk too much about yourself, its the internet, being too full of yourself makes you look like an idiot.


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    Registered User The Outrage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PDL View Post
    I honestly don't expect Garchomp to be in Ubers for too long either. He'll probably end up being like bottom rung since ubers is well... Ubers.

    I also expect him to be nerfed somehow by the 5th generation and made about equal as Tyranitar is now.
    Yeah seriosuly, Tyranitar was a pretty big threat last generation. I doubt Garchomp's uberness would be reversed just because it suck at uber though. Uber is merely meant as a ban tier eventhough it is its own competitive metagame. It won't go down a tier because it sucks there. There's the option of a BL Uber, but that just becomse redundant aswell since if everyone starts playing BL Uber for Garchomp, then it becomes the new "Standard" and the whole cycle starts again. If people leave it alone as much as they've left BL, then Garchomp is jsut in limbo. Rather than being remembered as "too awsome for OU" it may begin to be seen as "too crap for ubers"

    Unfortunate that whatever the case, it is now in limbo. Though, who knows, being faster than Rayquaza, people may still opt to use him, especially if they use the less common Sand Storm team in uber just to screw with Kyogre and Groudon.

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    Dark and steel types beg to differ, aswell as Hypnosis apparantly chanigng in accuracy within the same generation.
    I was never competitive in first gen, so forgive me if I forgot that.

    Still, they're far from balancing the game they've created.

    I don't see you on serebii beating the best of the best, I don't see you tutoring others in smogon.
    You don't need to be good at competitive battling to understand it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Witchboi View Post
    And the people who are like a penis goes in a vagina, I can't remember the last wedding i was at where the reverand said do you take this penis for your vagina.
    YOU THINK THIS IS FUNNY?!?

    one sentence porn meme!

    pokemon anon kink meme! careful it's rated 'r' for 'really sexy'

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outrage DD View Post
    Also why does it matter to the majority of Bulbagarden-users? Its not like this place is that big on competitive battling. Most of you guys aren't even what one would consider a competitive battler and these guidelines don't apply to you.
    Have the Smogon elitists brainwashed you Outrage? Regardless of whether bulbagarden is a competetive site, pretty much everyone who plays wifi has to put up with the rules. I'm getting pretty sick of how big Smogon's ego is getting and their What-we-say-goes policy. Don't get me wrong, Garchomp IS broken.

    Regardless of what Smogon thinks, I consider myself a competetive battler. Although I probibly don't fit under this catagory anyway since I know a lot when it comes to battling.

    Ooh, aren't you all cool? I want to be like you. /sarcasm/ I don't see you on serebii beating the best of the best, I don't see you tutoring others in smogon. Don't talk too much about yourself, its the internet, being too full of yourself makes you look like an idiot.
    This was a childish way to go around it. I wouldn't consider Serebii as a site to have "the best of the best".

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