Are artificial pokemon actual creatures?

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    Default Are artificial pokemon actual creatures?

    Pokemons like Porygon and Castform have been created by humans. While Porygon resembles more of a machine, Castform takes on more creature like features. The biggest difference is that Castform can have gender differences, while Porygon cannot.


    Still, can they be called actual creatures? They did not appear naturally in the pokemon world, in other words, they are not descendants of Mew, the beholder of all the pokemons' genes. So my opinion is that they are not. What's yours?

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    Default Re: Are artificial pokemon actual creatures?

    The definition of what counts as a "life form" is ambiguous even in the real world. Functionally, Porygon are no different from most other Pokémon—they eat, they battle, they reproduce (albeit with Ditto), they evolve (albeit by means of software updates), and they can be traded. Heck, it's even possible to find them in the wild in Sinnoh.

    Castform I can't really talk about until I've done more research on it. I'm not very knowledgeable about Generation III Pokémon in general.

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    Default Re: Are artificial pokemon actual creatures?

    I always thought that porygon's dna structure was based on an actual Pokemon. I mean, how else do you explain how they made a virtual Pokemon able to exist in the real world let alone get it to learn moves, make it evolve and have the right makeup to be shrunk and fit inside a Pokeball.

    I'm not sure how Castform was created. I mean, how would you even go about making a creature like that. But I assume it was also based of the genetic structure of a real Pokemon any ways.

    In that case, yes, they are actual creatures.
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    Default Re: Are artificial pokemon actual creatures?

    Porygon is kind of debatable to me. According to their Pokedex entries they don't have free will and basically perform as programmed, which means it's hard to say they are truly living, sentient creatures. Castform on the other hand, I consider a real being. It may not have been originally created by natural means, but it's still composed of living matter like all other Pokemon. Porygon is basically "living" data as opposed to flesh and bone.

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    Default Re: Are artificial pokemon actual creatures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Enzap View Post
    Porygon is kind of debatable to me. According to their Pokedex entries they don't have free will and basically perform as programmed, which means it's hard to say they are truly living, sentient creatures.
    Then those Pokédex entries outright contradict the basic game mechanics. Just like any other Pokémon, a traded Porygon of a high enough level will disobey an inexperienced trainer, implying that it does, indeed, have some measure of free will. Sure, you can claim Gameplay and Story Segregation, but really, when it comes right down to it, how many Pokédex entries can you take at face value?

    Quote Originally Posted by Enzap View Post
    Castform on the other hand, I consider a real being. It may not have been originally created by natural means, but it's still composed of living matter like all other Pokemon. Porygon is basically "living" data as opposed to flesh and bone.
    Porygon is still able to reproduce with a biological life form (Ditto), implying that it has some sort of biological component (or else Ditto is just that good). Furthermore, the ability to breed is more than a good number of "real" Pokémon can lay claim to (mostly Legendaries, but the point stands).

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    Default Re: Are artificial pokemon actual creatures?

    Since Castform resembles clouds it could have been created from nature using artificial means, which works with the Hoenn theme. It may be similar to how Rayquaza was born from the atmosphere.
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    Default Re: Are artificial pokemon actual creatures?

    As Porygon and Castform were, in fact, in the Pokédex, along with Porygon-2 and Porygon-Z, then yes.
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    Default Re: Are artificial pokemon actual creatures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Destiny Queen View Post
    They did not appear naturally in the pokemon world, in other words, they are not descendants of Mew, the beholder of all the pokemons' genes. So my opinion is that they are not. What's yours?
    That description also fits Pokemon from space (Cleffa, Lunatone, Solrock, Deoxys). I've actually tried to come up with a list of Pokemon not descended from Mew, and it includes several legendaries, most of which were created by Arceus, but also the Golems (created by Regigigas). There's also the question of Pokemon that are partly artificial: altered by humans, but not completely created by them (Mewtwo, Genesect, Zapmolcuno). I have a pretty loose definition of "creature" in the Pokemon world because there's an exception to every rule I've tried to come up with, and usually also something that can't fit into any category.

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    Default Re: Are artificial pokemon actual creatures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glitchipedia View Post
    Then those Pokédex entries outright contradict the basic game mechanics. Just like any other Pokémon, a traded Porygon of a high enough level will disobey an inexperienced trainer, implying that it does, indeed, have some measure of free will. Sure, you can claim Gameplay and Story Segregation, but really, when it comes right down to it, how many Pokédex entries can you take at face value?
    It's possible that Porygon was not programmed as a tool but instead programmed with extremely advanced AI to behave just as real Pokémon do, including disobeying commands (I doubt Game Freak planned it out to this very detail, but it's possible)

    Anyway, Porygon is hard to tell because they don't really get into any details in the game and it doesn't even appear in the anime except in the banned episode (and in that, it was only seen in a virtual world). My theory is that it's not at all an actual creature, and is (like it's Pokédex entry says) just a program. How it moves freely in our world is beyond me, but maybe it's a hologram or something? In real life there is research being done into "touchable" holograms... maybe Porygon is like an extremely exaggerated sci-fi version of that.

    As for the others...
    - Castform I really know nothing about.
    - Grimer / Muk are real creatures... they represent the disproven theory of spontaneous generation.
    - Voltorb / Electrode and Magnemite / Magneton - no idea. I picture them as rogue machines, but there's nothing in the canon to indicate that. They may not even be man-made at all... maybe they are actual creatures who respond to electrical stimuli and appear man-made due to camouflage.
    - Mewtwo - obviously an actual creature



    Quote Originally Posted by Mand"alor te Siit View Post
    That description also fits Pokemon from space (Cleffa, Lunatone, Solrock, Deoxys).
    One thing though... you can't rule out a Pokémon as not being related to Mew just because it comes from space because no one really knows where Mew comes from. In Pokémon Snap he is shown above the clouds, possibly outside the atmosphere. In the anime intro he is shown flying through space (but this is probably just for effects, since Mewtwo is also shown that way). But my point is, for all we know, Mew himself came from space.
    Last edited by Xenidal; 24th August 2012 at 08:08 PM.

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    From Leyend to Myth Infinity Mk-II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are artificial pokemon actual creatures?

    Given the very supernatural nature of the pokémon themselves, including artificial things gathering sentience and becoming monsters (grimer, voltorb, thrubish, whatever else), I don't see why would another synthetic thing being (somehow) created with this status to begin with to be any different.
    HOW did they make Porygon into a Pokémon though? I'd figure that since it is entirely virtual, whatever makes a Pokémon as such is easier to happen than on existing physical conditions.

    And Castform is clearly just artificially developed life anyway, not a synthetic at all. Basically not different at all from Mewtwo.


    Also, that everyone is so quick on dimising every pokédex entry, but not Mew's which might as well be the single most ridiculously impossible one (DNA neither works that way, and claiming it to be the ancestor of all pokemon hardly even holds up IN-UNIVERSE and is presented as a theory anyway, not to mention how in it there's such a thing as DNA manipulation on living cells) always throws me off.
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    Default Re: Are artificial pokemon actual creatures?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinity Mk-II View Post
    Also, that everyone is so quick on dimising every pokédex entry, but not Mew's which might as well be the single most ridiculously impossible one (DNA neither works that way, and claiming it to be the ancestor of all pokemon hardly even holds up IN-UNIVERSE and is presented as a theory anyway, not to mention how in it there's such a thing as DNA manipulation on living cells) always throws me off.
    Mew's Pokédex entry is not at all impossible in-universe. Mew's entry never says that all Pokémon are descended from Mew... it says that some researchers believe that all Pokémon are descended from Mew. This is comparable to real life theories which might turn out to be true but are often disproven. The same goes for Arceus and any in-game dialogue about Mesprit, Azelf, etc.... those are all legends. Not necessarily true, even in-universe. Neither one of those entries really contradicts the other unless the Mew one explicitly said, "All Pokémon are descended from Mew," and the Arceus one explicitly said, "Arceus magically came into existence out of nothingness."
    Also, what do you mean "DNA doesn't work that way"? It's a fictional universe... DNA works however the writers say it works. You don't go saying "Bulbasaur doesn't evolve because real-life evolution doesn't work that way"... you just accept that it works differently in the Pokémon universe than in our world. Also, where does it say anything about "DNA manipulation"? All it really says is that Mew possesses all genes, therefore is able to use every move in the game (which they really messed up on, because there are now some moves that it can't learn at all... but that's beside the point)

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    Default Re: Are artificial pokemon actual creatures?

    The canon never really goes into depth about what exactly makes a Pokémon a Pokémon, but by and large it seems that once something has the right qualities, that something (animate or otherwise) can become a Pokémon, a la Grimer. I always figured Porygon as a similar take on the same story as Grimer's, except that where Grimer was an accident, Porygon was on purpose. So I say Porygon and other non-biological Pokémon are creatures insofar as all Pokémon are creatures, but he/it can't be defined the same way we define life as we know it. That is, he's not an animal, or a plant, or a mineral, he's just data that has become "alive". I interpret the fact he can breed/eat berries/etc. as concessions to game mechanics, and would say that if Porygon was "real", he wouldn't do any of those.

    What really piques my interest is the Magnemite family. They are clearly meant to be mechanical constructs, with very man-made-looking parts, but they seemed to have come out of nowhere. Voltorb was said to have been born from Pokéball parts, but Magnemite's creation has never been explored or even hinted at. I suspend my disbelief a lot when it comes to Pokémon (you have to or nothing makes sense), but even then I find it a bit silly that something with horseshoe magnets and Phillips-head screws jutting from it was a product of nature.

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    From Leyend to Myth Infinity Mk-II's Avatar
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    Default Re: Are artificial pokemon actual creatures?

    Quote Originally Posted by dannyjenn View Post
    Mew's Pokédex entry is not at all impossible in-universe. Mew's entry never says that all Pokémon are descended from Mew... it says that some researchers believe that all Pokémon are descended from Mew.
    The later I mentioned. The former means that the belief itself makes no sense regardless.

    Also, what do you mean "DNA doesn't work that way"? It's a fictional universe... DNA works however the writers say it works.
    I mean that, with the implications given in this universe, it still is a misused word. You might as well call dragons rabbits, but you can't really justify they eating carrots just because they are called rabbits-- there has to be a further reason. In Mew's case, it tries to justify it being a common ancestor simply by saying "it has the DNA of all pokemon". It's basically saying DNA as a self-justifying wildcard, without further explanation to support their theory other than the theory itself. (Which I am not asking for because I AM looking too far into things, mind you)
    And, trying to make sense of how DNA is used, it still boils up in Mew having the DNA of all pokémon meaning that all pokémon have the DNA of Mew, unless Mew has different DNA in itself which might as well be. But in that case, it having the DNA of everything still is no reason in itself to believe it predates everything.

    Also, where does it say anything about "DNA manipulation"?
    Mewtwo. Ditto regarding Transform. Probably other places related and unrelated to Mew. The idea is that if that is something that exists in-universe, it's easy to assume that Mew can manipulate its DNA and cell structure as well.


    In any case my point is that it is a simple pokédex entry one shouldn't put too much thought into, as it simply is part of the rest of its lore to emphatize the point of it being a common ancestor (not necessarialy THE common ancestor) and a big scientific discovery.

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