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  1. #31
    The Pikashipping Master ashfangirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: A short rant on shipping evidence standards

    Quote Originally Posted by Geodude View Post
    The problem for her is that "back in the day", she was, like, 2-4 years old.
    If this was 1997 I was zero :)


    Off-topic STORY TIME!!!:


  2. #32
    100% strange matter Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: A short rant on shipping evidence standards

    Honestly, I don't think any ship will ever be canon. It doesn't fit with the show, especially ships involving the (ex)main cast.

    My personal biggest pet peeve is people trying to discredit other ships. I mean, I enjoy the advanceshipping thread a lot, and occasionally you get the guy that comes in just to tell everyone how stupid and unlikely the ship is. I'm sure it happens to other threads as well. I mean, what's the point of that? Does our imaginary relationship between imaginary characters disturb you that much?
    "There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die."

  3. #33
    The Pikashipping Master ashfangirl's Avatar
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    Default Re: A short rant on shipping evidence standards

    Quote Originally Posted by Masked Stranger View Post
    Honestly, I don't think any ship will ever be canon. It doesn't fit with the show, especially ships involving the (ex)main cast.

    My personal biggest pet peeve is people trying to discredit other ships. I mean, I enjoy the advanceshipping thread a lot, and occasionally you get the guy that comes in just to tell everyone how stupid and unlikely the ship is. I'm sure it happens to other threads as well. I mean, what's the point of that? Does our imaginary relationship between imaginary characters disturb you that much?

    Yeah, people do that in the Ash Club, too. Once a group of people came in and randomly started telling us that Paul is 10 times what Ash could ever be, and they almost started a flame war.

  4. #34
    黒い王様 Archaic's Avatar Webmaster
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    Default Re: A short rant on shipping evidence standards

    Quote Originally Posted by Masked Stranger View Post
    My personal biggest pet peeve is people trying to discredit other ships. I mean, I enjoy the advanceshipping thread a lot, and occasionally you get the guy that comes in just to tell everyone how stupid and unlikely the ship is. I'm sure it happens to other threads as well. I mean, what's the point of that? Does our imaginary relationship between imaginary characters disturb you that much?
    If people are claiming that their ship will happen, then it's only natural that someone who disagrees with them (either believing that their ship will happen instead, or that no ship will happen) will want to argue that point. This interpretation of events, different to their own, does disturb them. This is really the whole foundation of all shipping debating.

    Now, having said that, the threads for each ship have for a while here been seen as something sacred, as something only people who follow that ship should be posting in. That's fine. Like I said, there's nothing wrong with following a ship because you think it's cute, or whatever, which would appear to be the category you fall into given your statements. And shippers who are like that do deserve the right to follow their ship in peace, on the sidelines of the debates. But if you're the type who does believe your ship is true or will be in the future, or if you start talking about how some scene in the anime shows they love each other, then you've stopped falling solely into the "following because it's cute" category, and are now in the "following because you think it may actually happen" category. If you do fall into that category, then hiding in those threads where others can't touch you isn't a good thing. Not for you, not for your ship, and not for the health of Pokemon shipping in general.
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  5. #35
    I need to catch up! Quest's Avatar
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    Default Re: A short rant on shipping evidence standards

    Archaic, this is one of the best rants I've seen in a long while.

    "Gakishippers" as they were once called, really annoy me. It also annoys me when people fail to recognize that everyone that doesn't share their OTP are not always so-called gakishippers...

    Most of my other pet peeves have already been addressed.
    I'm so glad I learned from some of my own mistakes...I hope.
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    Just so Victoria, just so Mijzelffan's Avatar
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    Default Re: A short rant on shipping evidence standards

    Quote Originally Posted by Archaic View Post
    Now, having said that, the threads for each ship have for a while here been seen as something sacred, as something only people who follow that ship should be posting in.
    just been seen? I once got infracted for saying in a Shelly x someone thread, for saying how I usually shipped them with others.


  7. #37
    Registered User Chelsea's Avatar
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    Default Re: A short rant on shipping evidence standards

    I haven't been posting here for long, but I was a Shipping moderator over at Serebii, so I know how frustrating it is to see these "hints" used as evidence towards a shipping becoming canon.

    Pearlshippers there refused to participate in Pokeshipping/Pearlshipping debates, simply because "everyone has a different definition of a hint." Their hint list consisted of ridiculous things, such as the high fives, etc, basically anything that could be considered friendship. I know it's not just Pearlshippers, and not all of you are like that, so no offense to any of you guys. It seems like too many shippers confuse love and friendship for whatever reason, or take acts of friendship too seriously between characters, seriously enough to think they are going to be a couple in the future. It's definitely fine to think a shipping is cute and whatnot, I have no problem with that, I don't think anybody does, but when there is little to no evidence for it, shippers should not be using every little interaction just to have some evidence.

    Not to be rude or anything, Bulbapedia is great, but I think that shipping articles there also contribute to this problem. Just about anything that happens between characters is put on those pages and marked as evidence for each shipping.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pearlshipping article
    Other Hints

    Ash and Dawn are the only main characters to trade Pokémon with each other: Ash's Aipom for Dawn's Buizel.
    I mean...really? :C

    I know at the very top of each page, it gives a warning and says the articles are opinion/POV, but many shippers take these articles seriously and use them as their official hint lists in debates. They believe these pages are truthful and can not be argued with, no matter how insane some of the "hints" listed may be to other people. I don't know if there would be any way to fix this, since the pages are opinion/POV, but I really do think it is a part of this problem.

  8. #38
    100% strange matter Stranger's Avatar
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    Default Re: A short rant on shipping evidence standards

    Come on guys, since when do we need evidence to support a ship? I support Advanceshipping because I think it's cute. I don't need to provide evidence to anyone to be able to support a ship, and neither should anyone else.

    And debating about which ship is most likely to be true is equally pointless. Just because Pearlshipping hints exist doesn't mean Pokeshipping is impossible. Just because Pokeshipping had more hints doesn't mean Ash couldn't have feelings for May.

    You all really need to do a step back and see how ridiculous you are all behaving. I mean, come on, you're discussing how to debate about which non-existent relationship is most likely between a bunch of fantasy characters.

    Just enjoy your ship. There's no need to annoy others for not supporting the same ship.
    "There he goes. One of God's own prototypes. Some kind of high powered mutant never even considered for mass production. Too weird to live, and too rare to die."

  9. #39
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    Default Re: A short rant on shipping evidence standards

    Quote Originally Posted by Masked Stranger View Post
    I mean, come on, you're discussing how to debate about which non-existent relationship is most likely between a bunch of fantasy characters.
    what, you didn't get the memo? :c
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  10. #40
    Registered User M Block's Avatar
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    Default Re: A short rant on shipping evidence standards

    Quote Originally Posted by Chelc View Post
    It seems like too many shippers confuse love and friendship for whatever reason.
    I've seen people confuse love an hatred, but that had nothing to do with shipping.

    OT: um.... I got nothing here.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: A short rant on shipping evidence standards

    Quote Originally Posted by Masked Stranger View Post
    Come on guys, since when do we need evidence to support a ship? I support Advanceshipping because I think it's cute. I don't need to provide evidence to anyone to be able to support a ship, and neither should anyone else.

    And debating about which ship is most likely to be true is equally pointless. Just because Pearlshipping hints exist doesn't mean Pokeshipping is impossible. Just because Pokeshipping had more hints doesn't mean Ash couldn't have feelings for May.

    You all really need to do a step back and see how ridiculous you are all behaving. I mean, come on, you're discussing how to debate about which non-existent relationship is most likely between a bunch of fantasy characters.

    Just enjoy your ship. There's no need to annoy others for not supporting the same ship.
    Agreed completely. Me? I think the Ash ships are crack anyways. Or half canon? They will never exsist because Ash is not intrested. As for pearlshipping? That would be the ship I was refering to in my last post. Many Gakishippers. I think of it as a crack pairing, they met, they had hints, but they never had actuall hints just friendship. So I tend to think that way, if it has non solid evidence, it's probably the weakest Ash ship. But I'm not here to disscuss that. I say what's the bother? I saw someone come on in my X otp's thread. They just dissed us and left. That is something that made my want to get mad. So I ignored it... Now this thread does not seem as good as it was. Someone just went on and told me to come here and read it! It just seems pointless!

  12. #42
    Cheers to the Freeze Luna Tiger's Avatar Bulbapedia Staff
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    Default Re: A short rant on shipping evidence standards

    Quote Originally Posted by Chelc View Post
    Not to be rude or anything, Bulbapedia is great, but I think that shipping articles there also contribute to this problem. Just about anything that happens between characters is put on those pages and marked as evidence for each shipping.



    I mean...really? :C

    I know at the very top of each page, it gives a warning and says the articles are opinion/POV, but many shippers take these articles seriously and use them as their official hint lists in debates. They believe these pages are truthful and can not be argued with, no matter how insane some of the "hints" listed may be to other people. I don't know if there would be any way to fix this, since the pages are opinion/POV, but I really do think it is a part of this problem.
    -_-; That should be in trivia.

    Oh well. *halo* Guess nothing shall be done for it. ^_^ **the article falls apart behind her from all the subject things she just removed from it** *hids the hedge-clippers behind her back...it was long overdue; Pokeshipping and Advanceshipping are going to need to go through the same again soon too*
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  13. #43
    Registered User Byzantine's Avatar
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    Default Re: A short rant on shipping evidence standards

    Quote Originally Posted by Luna Tiger View Post
    Pokeshipping and Advanceshipping are going to need to go through the same again soon too*
    We're already sorting through the hints to find false hints, strong hints, weak hints and such.

    Suffice it to say, this rant/speech has driven us to action.
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  14. #44
    黒い王様 Archaic's Avatar Webmaster
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    Default Re: A short rant on shipping evidence standards

    Part of the problem with the Bulbapedia articles there is that they weren't really taken ownership of by the community. Actually, I should say, they had ownership, but when the people who used to maintain those pages moved on to other interests, no one picked it up, and instead you just had random contributors adding in things without any oversight.

    I would strongly urge every organized major ship to nominate a representative to maintain those, as was the case in the past. I would not be opposed to permanently protecting those articles if needed, with those articles being updated by myself or another admin as needed when directed by the associated club for that ship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Masked Stranger View Post
    Come on guys, since when do we need evidence to support a ship? I support Advanceshipping because I think it's cute. I don't need to provide evidence to anyone to be able to support a ship, and neither should anyone else.
    And you're free to that opinion. What that means is that you're not the kind of person this rant was aimed at. You don't care if your ship comes true or not, or support it because you think it'll come true. You support it because it's cute, and nothing more.

    Not everyone feels that way however. Now, true, some people take Shipping way too far. Look at the Harry Potter fandom, where people started writing angry letters to the author herself, saying she didn't know her own characters, because she decided that they'd end up with different ones to what these so-called fans wanted.

    That's personally not where I come from, and I would hope not where the majority of people here come from. Yes, I ship things because they're cute. But I also ship things because I feel like there's evidence in the anime towards that direction. I recognize that even overwhelming evidence doesn't mean certainty (the Digimon example is again the best one there), but it does mean more likely. Shipping debates for me in this sense are debates over what is the correct interpretation of events, trying to understand what exactly it is the writers intended, and what implications that may have on future plotlines, etc.

    That's not to mean that's the only way to ship things however. I've known more than a few people who do get quite worked up over things. Hell, I certainly used to get a whole lot more worked up in debates than I would if I got involved today. I feel it's important to acknowledge all varieties of shippers out there. However, I also feel that if people are going to get involved in certain things in shipping, such as trying to convince people their ship is going to happen, then they need to be prepared to justify and defend those positions. Otherwise....well, you get crap like in some of the current Bulbapedia articles.
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  15. #45
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    Default Re: A short rant on shipping evidence standards

    Quote Originally Posted by Archaic View Post
    I would strongly urge every organized major ship to nominate a representative to maintain those, as was the case in the past. I would not be opposed to permanently protecting those articles if needed, with those articles being updated by myself or another admin as needed when directed by the associated club for that ship.
    I mostly edit the Rocketshipping page, but a few other people help out as well. So we already have a pretty good system in place since we finally fixed up our article over the summer.

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