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  1. #1381
    SEX SEX SEX Jeshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rocketshipping General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Jez View Post
    The Japanese fans are also very nostalgic of the "ancient" version of the trio, it is enough to see the new drawings posted on Pixiv http://www.pixiv.net/search.php?word=%E3%82%B3%E3%82%B8%E3%83%AD%E3%82%A6&s_mode=s_tag

    Under this art, here is what the fan wrote "You do not soon go to stop? I am tired of this serious character" -> http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?mode=medium&illust_id=14450803 and the majority of the French fans preferred funny Team Rocket, me including.
    Like in every other country, you can find people who liked them when they were funny, while the others just found that annoying and vice versa.

    Shudo didn't like funny Rockets... He always wanted them to become more than just comic-reliefs and he tried to fight with other writers' thoughtless treatment of Rocket trio. Not to mention that many comedic situations were just OOC.

    For sure, Japanese loved their self-existence. As in, wearing white uniforms instead of black ones, having a motto, and standing out overall, being self-confident about their position in the show, that is, their world, while they really meant nothing. Shudo specified that.

    But have they really changed that much now? They're just way more serious and succesful and have black uniforms, that's all. They're still loyal to the organization as they've always been. At the beginning I thought they lost their feeling of self-existence. But no. It's just that at the moment, they're just in the center of the dream they've always followed. Dream of becoming really important. They're trying their best not to fail it, because they know they won't get another chance. It's now or never.

    That is. They believe that they're important, but they don't know the truth.
    You think you mean something, you try your best to become who you want to be, to be the best at what you're doing... but in the end it means nothing as you're only human being, whose powers and life is limited.
    Rocket Trio were really tragicomedic characters. They were meant to fail, they were meant to cause the feeling of sympathy. They were meant to be unideal, just like human beings. Yet, they were meant to still feel worthy in its own way. No matter what, they thought their existence is important.

    They've been always chasing after their dreams, that sooner or later, turn out be fake dreams.

    Even though Rockets are succesful now, they're meant to FAIL in the end and to realize they meant nothing. They need one, ultimate fail after the path of successes to prove them, how meaningless their goals were. Otherwise, they'd never realize it. Or maybe it just won't matter to them? Because as long as they spent their lives with each other they have nothing to regret.

    Feeling important and powerful, when you're nothing but silly, imperfect creature. It's all Shudo's philosophy here. The more I think of BW, the less I think that Tomioka disregarded Shudo's job. It looked like it at first, but now I can see that it's all the same, just approached from different side.

    The trio of Team Rocket was important characters of Pokémon during 13 seasons
    No, no, no. They've never been important.

    and I hope that this time, we would give them an important role but I am disappointed :(
    Erm, what role you wanted them to get? At least they have now separate plot...

    For the moment, I find the scenes of the Rockets in Best Wishes, repetitive and boring (I again preferred to see the "Blasting off again" because at least, they had more appearance. I miss seriously to see Rocket only 3 minutes maximum since the beginning of BW),
    Like if earlier the scenes weren't repetitive and boring. Many of Jouto and AG episodes were hell. Not to mention that most of their screentime was stealing Pokemon of the day and battling with twerps that always ended with, SURPRISE! blast-off.

    sorry, but it is my opinion. I look at the ancient episodes with a lot of nostalgia. Best Wishes manages only to annoy me.
    Everyone is free to have their own opinion, peace

    I very appreciated the appearance of Rockets in the BW 11, they had many class and were beautiful but this time still, they missed development
    In DP, no, in all anime, they haven't had development until DP100-something xD; But I'm not sure if I think right what you mean.

    Nothing is really thougth in Pokémon,
    It's been more considered than you think. These people work on it for years and sold their souls for it, if they don't know what they're doing, who would?

    I am maybe rough in my comments but I consider that after 14 years of appearance, the trio deserves a much more important role and appearances more numerous than for 2 minutes only.
    TRio arleady have special treatment in the show. They appear in every episode, even if it's not neccessary for them to show up that often.

    Quote Originally Posted by Musashi View Post
    The writers don't care what any of us think (nor should they, as it would be a nightmare to try and please everyone).
    Well, Shudo said that he wanted Rockets to be loved ;D But yeah, it was more of his personal wish.

    All of us could be complianing, but unless Japan is making a huge fuss, nothing will change. I wouldn't call the fanart you posted making a huge fuss, because there are also many artists that love how they act now. Many people participating in the next KojiMusa Anthology will be doing stories set in the BW series. It's a mixed bag, just like its always been.
    That's right, there's as much serious!TR haters now as it used to be silly!TR haters, who hated them to say their "stupid" motto, steal Pikachu and blast off every week. Japan is no exception.

    That's not a fair comparison. Those two were Jouto screwups because Shudo left and Omae-sama the Producers didn't seem to know how to manage things. The show is much more organized nowadays.
    It looks like Tomioka will stay for long, until he messes up very much, but I don't think it's gonna happen ;D Replacing the head writer only causes a big mess. Thanks to Tomioka, writing got really decent and logic as for Pokemon.

    I wouldn't say you're being rough in your comments, I just enjoy posting theories in this thread. Sometimes I'm right, most of the time I'm wrong, you can take what you want from my posts.
    That's right, we just have fun speculating and then finding out whether we were right or wrong ;D But after DP's resume I must say that maybe sometimes we went too farfetched, because we had a hunch that Rockets are going to have their closure soon, but when we look at things generally, we were mostly right.

    But the problem with liking secondary characters is just that. They'll always be secondary characters. I know it sucks that the Rockets are the second longest running characters on the show and don't get more screen time, but that's not what their characters are about.
    Yeah, they've been always meant to be like this, maybe Shudo had ambitions for more, but it didn't work in the end, and will never do.

  2. #1382
    Clap Clap Musashi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rocketshipping General Discussion

    Not much this week.



    As I said before, Junki is next week, so maybe he'll finally give us something.

    There was also something I thought was interesting about last week's episode. After Flint praised the three for doing a good job, Kojiro said it wasn't necessary. He's certainly come a long way from craving affection for doing a good job.

  3. #1383
    amazing Meron's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Rocketshipping General Discussion

    Judging by the overall episode caps and people's reactions, the whole episode seemed to be an absolute bore. At least next week's ep seems really fun otherwise, and usually those episodes contain good Rocket scenes as well (like last week's episode, IMO at least.)

    OMG! Iwane is animating next week? When did we have a Takegami + Iwane combo the last time? *__* Please let the Rockets have lots of screentime, for the sake of beautiful animation!

    y team

  4. #1384
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    Default Re: Rocketshipping General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Meron View Post
    When did we have a Takegami + Iwane combo the last time? *__*
    That shitty Pokemon Ping Pong episode. I hated how Musashi and Kojiro acted with each other. At least those days are over.

  5. #1385
    amazing Meron's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Rocketshipping General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Musashi View Post
    That shitty Pokemon Ping Pong episode. I hated how Musashi and Kojiro acted with each other. At least those days are over.
    Actually, IIRC they didn't interact in that episode at all. XD But yeah, Musashi was quite bitchy and Nyasu sucked generally. I'm really interested how they will interact next week.

    Oh, something that just came into my mind. If Musashi and Kojiro don't happen to die or something at the end of the Rocket-dan plot in BW, could they join Satoshi-tachi's side for the last few episodes? At their current state I can't see that happening, but who knows what will occur in the next 4 years? Any thoughts on this?

    y team

  6. #1386
    SEX SEX SEX Jeshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rocketshipping General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Musashi View Post
    Not much this week.
    Kinda weird there's a briefcase between Musashi and Kojiro. You'd think they'd just section off Nyasu even more. But even with that, they're still sitting closer together than Musashi is with Nyasu!
    I actually find this a good thing. The briefcase is very important to them and Kojiro put it in a place, where he thought it was the safest. Putting it between Musashi and Nyasu would be out of question, because one person guarding it isn't enough as you can't really think Nyasu would be reliable in this role... Not to mention that it would just have no sense to put it between Musashi and Nyasu, since it's mainly Kojiro's briefcase xD;

    The Meteonite?! It sure looks like it. The guy says something about Sakaki and he gets up to leave as a train acts like a scene changer back to the twerps.
    He told them that they got high marks from Sakaki for their latest mission.

    There was also something I thought was interesting about last week's episode. After Flint praised the three for doing a good job, Kojiro said it wasn't necessary. He's certainly come a long way from craving affection for doing a good job.
    The same happened in yesterday's episode, when Kojiro replied "naturally". They know that they're doing a good job and have enough of self-coincidence to not need appreciation from others anymore. They started to treat being succesful as a natural, obvious state.
    Especially when it comes to Kojiro.

    BW011 really showed, how writing got consistent lately. The episode was written by Oohashi, who especially had tendency to make Kojiro acting all full of himself whenever he gained a little self-coincidence. I bet you wouldn't heard old Kojiro saying anything like that.

    Kojiro used to crave attention, especially from Musashi, but after she finally started to appreciate him in late DP, he doesn't need being praised anymore to believe in himself. One "good job!" and sweet glomp changed him completely

    Quote Originally Posted by Meron View Post
    OMG! Iwane is animating next week? When did we have a Takegami + Iwane combo the last time? *__* Please let the Rockets have lots of screentime, for the sake of beautiful animation!
    I hope Takegami won't fail us like he did in BW007.

    Yeah, I hope that they get lots of screentime too! ^.^

    Quote Originally Posted by Meron View Post
    Oh, something that just came into my mind. If Musashi and Kojiro don't happen to die or something at the end of the Rocket-dan plot in BW, could they join Satoshi-tachi's side for the last few episodes? At their current state I can't see that happening, but who knows what will occur in the next 4 years? Any thoughts on this?
    Join Satoshi-tachi? What for?
    Last edited by Jeshi; 10th December 2010 at 11:46 AM.

  7. #1387
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    Default Re: Rocketshipping General Discussion

    i love rocket shipping <3 tho i am a little naive bout my shippings yet... all i know is tht where i live we call team roket jessie and james so it is confusing when you talk abot them in thiere origonal names...x

  8. #1388
    Jez
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    Default Re: Rocketshipping General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jessierocketka View Post
    The same happened in yesterday's episode, when Kojiro replied "naturally". They know that they're doing a good job and have enough of self-coincidence to not need appreciation from others anymore. They started to treat being succesful as a natural, obvious state.
    Especially when it comes to Kojiro.

    BW011 really showed, how writing got consistent lately. The episode was written by Oohashi, who especially had tendency to make Kojiro acting all full of himself whenever he gained a little self-coincidence. I bet you wouldn't heard old Kojiro saying anything like that.
    I think that Kojiro answers in this way by humility
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  9. #1389
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    Default Re: Rocketshipping General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jessierocketka View Post
    I actually find this a good thing. The briefcase is very important to them and Kojiro put it in a place, where he thought it was the safest. Putting it between Musashi and Nyasu would be out of question, because one person guarding it isn't enough as you can't really think Nyasu would be reliable in this role... Not to mention that it would just have no sense to put it between Musashi and Nyasu, since it's mainly Kojiro's briefcase xD;
    I never thought of it like that, but you're right on the money. I guess I'm still not completely used to Kojiro being in charge so much.

    It's really just another example of Nyasu being left out. Musashi and Kojiro sit close together to guard the briefcase, and Nyasu is just... there.

    Quote Originally Posted by jessierocketka View Post
    He told them that they got high marks from Sakaki for their latest mission.
    Interesting...

    Quote Originally Posted by jessierocketka View Post
    I hope Takegami won't fail us like he did in BW007.
    Maybe he will give Nyasu some comic relief so he can do something again.

    And also so Musashi and Kojiro can have more alone time.

    Quote Originally Posted by 00tygrrieshipping00 View Post
    i love rocket shipping <3 tho i am a little naive bout my shippings yet... all i know is tht where i live we call team roket jessie and james so it is confusing when you talk abot them in thiere origonal names...x
    Welcome! Here's the rundown of what you need to know.

    Musashi=Jessie
    Kojiro=James
    Nyasu=Meowth

    You get the hang of it after awhile, but don't feel like you have to use the original names. That's just what many of us prefer.

  10. #1390
    Rocketshipper since 1999 AnnaSartin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rocketshipping General Discussion

    As someone who's never seen any Best Wishes but needs more info for a project, would someone be willing to answer a few questions?

    1. Is Kojiro now officially in charge of team, or is he just in a more equal position of leadership with Musashi?

    2. Were the Rockets actually promoted, or just reassigned?

    3. Do they succeed in their missions now, or just fail in ways that are less extreme?

    4. How much, if any, of their past selves are left?

  11. #1391
    SEX SEX SEX Jeshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rocketshipping General Discussion

    Welcome to the thread, 00tygrrieshipping00!

    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaSartin View Post
    1. Is Kojiro now officially in charge of team, or is he just in a more equal position of leadership with Musashi?
    No, he feels equal to Musashi. Sometimes it's Kojiro who's in charge, sometimes Musashi (I guess we should take statistics xD)

    2. Were the Rockets actually promoted, or just reassigned?
    They believe they were promoted, but it's really hard to say the truth.

    3. Do they succeed in their missions now, or just fail in ways that are less extreme?
    In first four episodes, they failed in less extreme way (when wanting to steal Pokemon), but since they started to get important missions from their boss, they succeed and everyone, including Sakaki, is praising them.

    4. How much, if any, of their past selves are left?
    That's kinda complicated matter, we've been talking about in this thread for latest several pages.

    I don't know how do you want to use this info for your fanfic, but like I said, I'd prefer if no one contributed anything set in BW...
    Last edited by Jeshi; 11th December 2010 at 08:41 AM. Reason: Link edited out

  12. #1392
    amazing Meron's Avatar Moderator
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    Default Re: Rocketshipping General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by jessierocketka View Post
    Join Satoshi-tachi? What for?
    Not join his group, but help him like in the second movie (in a less goofy way, of course... Could be suicidal again, though!)

    AnnaSartin, I would really recommend to watch the episodes, before you start writing about characters whose personality you're not familiar with... I don't want to sound rude, but the end result might be just a mess. :/

    y team

  13. #1393
    Rocketshipper since 1999 AnnaSartin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rocketshipping General Discussion

    No, I have no desire to write anything in the BW universe. I'm working on a post-series piece. I wanted to write it as if b&w didn't exist but jessierocketka pointed out that the characters wouldn't be quite in character for diamond and pearl so I'm turning a disadvantage into an advantage by having it take place after. I'm currently on episode 4 of Best Wishes now thanks to a basic Google search that I should have done months ago. I'm enjoying the challenge, but if the story doesn't come out right and jessierocketka hates it I can just stick it over on FF.net instead. Then I can make corrections later on when the BW episodes hit the States next year, since the dub version of Team Rocket will probably not be the same.
    Last edited by AnnaSartin; 11th December 2010 at 12:21 PM.

  14. #1394
    Cheers to the Freeze Luna Tiger's Avatar Bulbapedia Staff
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    Default Re: Rocketshipping General Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by AnnaSartin View Post
    I'd love to see the b&w episodes but I need to find somewhere online I can view them without downloading anything into my touchy laptop.
    These are not things we discuss anywhere on the forums. *nod*
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  15. #1395
    Rocketshipper since 1999 AnnaSartin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rocketshipping General Discussion

    Well, having spent my day watching the first 11 episodes of Best Wishes, I've made the following ten observations:

    Last edited by AnnaSartin; 11th December 2010 at 08:25 PM.

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