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  1. #16
    Registered User Kambash's Avatar
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    Default Re: Science and Pokémon: A Good Catch: Exploring the technology behind Poké Balls

    Matter is merely a form of energy so this entire article is bleh.

    However, Silph Co. being a division of Aperture Labs is more likely, given the latter's endeavors in science.



    Makes sense, considering that Pokeballs are supposed to send the Pokemon to a fitting habitat.

    Now you're thinking with portals.
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    Default Re: Science and Pokémon: A Good Catch: Exploring the technology behind Poké Balls

    Quote Originally Posted by HKim View Post
    Thank you! I'm glad you liked it.

    You bring up an excellent point, one that I had not considered while writing the article.

    Another method to deal with the dense mass is to implement some sort of gravity-altering field within the pokeball itself. Make it so that there is not gravity or that it cancels itself out.

    Teleportation certainly works as well. The level of technology we see in the Pokemon world certainly allows for such theoretical advances!
    I just saw this one and realized that this was the point I was attempting to make, lolz, i thought anti-gravity sounded a little too much, so i came up with the data storage, but this one seems much more plausible since you had me consider whether the soul would survive...in thus, i was going to argue the GLaDOS case, but nevermind, haha

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    Default Re: Science and Pokémon: A Good Catch: Exploring the technology behind Poké Balls

    I personally think the Pokemon series takes place after a technological singularity. The post-Singularity novel Accelerando mentions "computronium", a state of matter that allows "real" (having mass and taking up space) matter to be converted to computer data. My hypothesis is that a Poke Ball converts its quarry not to energy, but to computronium. It then embeds the now-"codified" Pokemon in a "background" code that simulates the species' preferred habitat, along with some sort of copy-protection or encryption code to prevent re-capture.

    By extension, the Box system developed by Bill and his cohorts does the same thing on a larger scale (the man built a primitive matter-transference machine in his house, so he must be an engineer of the highest degree). The Pokemon Centers' Healing Machines would analyze this code and then "defragment" it, thus repairing the Pokemon's code--and its physical body. On the negative side, Cipher likely used a modded Box system to expose the enclosed Pokemon to mismatched "backgrounds", thus torturing them until their souls collapse (truly, the epitome of evil!). The Snag Machine somehow bypasses a Poke Ball's copy-protection system; it might also augment the wearer's arm strength, throwing the ball so fast that the other trainer can't counter.

    As for the other great hallmark of the Singularity (sentient AIs) I give you Porgyon.
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    Default Re: Science and Pokémon: A Good Catch: Exploring the technology behind Poké Balls

    I was almost convinced you were not about to speak of data storage, but that the pokeball can somehow fold time and space, thus allowing the entire mass to be stored in a smaller space. Data storage would be a lot easier, though. However, when thinking of this sort of thing, I am reminded of Star Trek's Heisenburg Compensator, a device which somehow cancels out the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle, which says that you can't know both the location of an atom AND what it's doing at the same time. This would make it impossible to store it as data, but maybe the pokeball has something like that, I dunno.
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    Default Re: Science and Pokémon: A Good Catch: Exploring the technology behind Poké Balls

    Quote Originally Posted by hdrzewiecki View Post
    I personally think the Pokemon series takes place after a technological singularity. The post-Singularity novel Accelerando mentions "computronium", a state of matter that allows "real" (having mass and taking up space) matter to be converted to computer data. My hypothesis is that a Poke Ball converts its quarry not to energy, but to computronium. It then embeds the now-"codified" Pokemon in a "background" code that simulates the species' preferred habitat, along with some sort of copy-protection or encryption code to prevent re-capture.

    By extension, the Box system developed by Bill and his cohorts does the same thing on a larger scale (the man built a primitive matter-transference machine in his house, so he must be an engineer of the highest degree). The Pokemon Centers' Healing Machines would analyze this code and then "defragment" it, thus repairing the Pokemon's code--and its physical body. On the negative side, Cipher likely used a modded Box system to expose the enclosed Pokemon to mismatched "backgrounds", thus torturing them until their souls collapse (truly, the epitome of evil!). The Snag Machine somehow bypasses a Poke Ball's copy-protection system; it might also augment the wearer's arm strength, throwing the ball so fast that the other trainer can't counter.

    As for the other great hallmark of the Singularity (sentient AIs) I give you Porgyon.
    I need to read this Accelerando...and I love this idea! xD Especially the second paragraph, it makes sense, although it is truely sad about the Pokémon's soul collapsing, it makes a lot of sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Samurott View Post
    I was almost convinced you were not about to speak of data storage, but that the pokeball can somehow fold time and space, thus allowing the entire mass to be stored in a smaller space. Data storage would be a lot easier, though. However, when thinking of this sort of thing, I am reminded of Star Trek's Heisenburg Compensator, a device which somehow cancels out the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle, which says that you can't know both the location of an atom AND what it's doing at the same time. This would make it impossible to store it as data, but maybe the pokeball has something like that, I dunno.
    Not gonna lie, not a huge Star Trek fan, but your point makes sense, too. We'll prolly know how it works when we attain that level of knowledge and technology.

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    Default Re: Science and Pokémon: A Good Catch: Exploring the technology behind Poké Balls

    If I remember correctly, I read somewhere... and I believe it even used to be on Bulbapedia at one point in time, but somehow was removed... That Pokemon are inherently "energy" based creatures naturally. What I mean is, Pokeballs never do the Matter to Energy conversion, but it simply forces the Pokemon to revert to it's energy state. I forget where this information came from, but I know it was out there somewhere and explained in the series that Pokemon convert to energy themselves without the use of technology. This is why the older Pokeballs like the apricorns could store a Pokemon inside of it. The same for the ancient Pokeballs they used to store giant Pokemon in.

    The fact that all Pokemon have a natural ability to convert energy into matter, etc explains a lot. It explains how they can use moves and attacks that seem impossible for some of these creatures to do. Also, Pokemon don't "grow" into their evolutions, they transform into them as if like magic.

    No technology is used for a Bulbasaur to evolve into an Ivysaur. Yet, the Pokemon converts to energy and rapidly changes during this process. (The same effect used for going inside of Pokeballs.)

    If I can find the evidence behind this theory again, I'll post it here. However, it would make a lot more sense if that were the case. Kurt's balls would handle much more like an "allergic reaction" rather than technology. Thus, the improvement on the balls ADDING technology to the system, is much more efficient.

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    Default Re: Science and Pokémon: A Good Catch: Exploring the technology behind Poké Balls

    Quote Originally Posted by HKim View Post
    I'd certainly would be willing to write another scientific-based article if Pokemon fans were interested!
    I'd like to see articles about the Pokeball transfer system, how the machine Nurse Joy sometimes uses to heal Pokemon while in the ball works, and how the Pokedex knows what it's scanning (and possibly how Mewtwo's armor blocked Gary's Pokedex)!

    I really enjoyed the Pokeball Article!

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    Default Re: Science and Pokémon: A Good Catch: Exploring the technology behind Poké Balls

    Quote Originally Posted by hdrzewiecki View Post
    By extension, the Box system developed by Bill and his cohorts does the same thing on a larger scale (the man built a primitive matter-transference machine in his house, so he must be an engineer of the highest degree). The Pokemon Centers' Healing Machines would analyze this code and then "defragment" it, thus repairing the Pokemon's code--and its physical body. On the negative side, Cipher likely used a modded Box system to expose the enclosed Pokemon to mismatched "backgrounds", thus torturing them until their souls collapse (truly, the epitome of evil!
    This theory, in particular, is why I believe Pokemon can be healed while in Pokeballs. The machines used in Pokemon Centers analyze what the "fully-healed" data of the Pokemon looks like and works to restore the current state of the Pokemon towards its healthy data state. The main problem with this idea is, again the soul question, as well as a question about whether the Pokemon's memories would also be reset (which would make training difficult).

    I suspect that the Pokemon world is advanced enough to distinguish between certain types of data sets (such as those that relate to memory) and that helps Nurse Joy repair the damage without resetting the Pokemon.

    Though talking about all of this seems very cold for Pokemon...


    Quote Originally Posted by Samurott View Post
    However, when thinking of this sort of thing, I am reminded of Star Trek's Heisenburg Compensator, a device which somehow cancels out the Heisenburg Uncertainty Principle, which says that you can't know both the location of an atom AND what it's doing at the same time. This would make it impossible to store it as data, but maybe the pokeball has something like that, I dunno.
    I'd like to think of it more that the data stores only one aspect of the atom's information and "guesses" about the other. Admittedly, this would likely be a highly educated guess and one that shouldn't drastically affect the Pokemon on a day-to-day basis.

    One does have to wonder if, in the long run, there is a decay factor...

    Are we just making copies of copies of copies?


    Quote Originally Posted by IceSage View Post
    The fact that all Pokemon have a natural ability to convert energy into matter, etc explains a lot. It explains how they can use moves and attacks that seem impossible for some of these creatures to do. Also, Pokemon don't "grow" into their evolutions, they transform into them as if like magic.

    No technology is used for a Bulbasaur to evolve into an Ivysaur. Yet, the Pokemon converts to energy and rapidly changes during this process. (The same effect used for going inside of Pokeballs.)
    Although biology isn't my specialty, another way to look at is similar to how a caterpillar "evolves" into a butterfly. Sure the process takes a long time, but it occurs. I imagine a quick evolution like we see in Pokemon requires several times more energy, but if what you say is true and that Pokemon have become masters of energy storage, then that would be no trouble at all!


    Quote Originally Posted by sonic10158 View Post
    I'd like to see articles about the Pokeball transfer system, how the machine Nurse Joy sometimes uses to heal Pokemon while in the ball works, and how the Pokedex knows what it's scanning (and possibly how Mewtwo's armor blocked Gary's Pokedex)!
    Ah yes, matter/energy transfer. I admit the concept would be similar to what I discussed in the article, with a few exceptions. I'd likely pull out a few Star Trek references given how pervasive transporters are in the series.

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    Default Re: Science and Pokémon: A Good Catch: Exploring the technology behind Poké Balls

    The article seems to have a failed grasp on the mass-energy equivalence that I found extremely jarring. According to the author, the pokeballs turn them from pure mass to some mass-energy hybrid. It still wouldn't change the fact that the energy is within the pokeball, thus the pokeball would still have to weigh proportionally to the sum of its own mass and that of its contents. Say you catch a 'mon that has a mass of 100kg. That mass may change all into energy, but if all that energy is contained inside the pokeball, then the pokeball's total mass must therefore increase by 100kg. Many intricate experiments have actually proven this concept, and it's not just the inherent energy in mass. For example, take a spring. When compressed, potential energy is added. By the mass-energy equivalence, one should expect the mass of the spring to increase due to the extra energy contained in it via elastic potential. In fact, experiments have demonstrated that adding such energy does in fact increase the mass of the spring. Thus, any explanation you make up for how pokeballs work still have to contend with the fact that the total mass must be itself plus the pokemon it contains. Doesn't matter what form it is, if the energy equivalent is 100kg, it will weigh 100kg and still be too heavy to hold on in your pants let alone to hold.

    Also, the changing of molecular structure is a cop-out idea and one that doesn't even address the issue of significantly changing the mass' density. Science-fiction completely. Change the chemical patterns all you want, you still have to contend with the repulsive forces of the atoms, and let's just say that if there a simple way of compressing so much matter into something that fits on your hand (never minding the issue of handling such an object with your hands), obtaining net-power from fusion energy would be a complete non-issue. And that's not even discussing the energy required to maintain such forces to counteract the repulsive nature of the atoms (or the strength of materials that prevent so much energy in some "mystic alternate form" from exploding immediately, itself a non-issue since the opening of a poke-ball would pretty much mean a nuclear explosion that puts our largest nuclear bombs to utter shame)

    I won't even bother with the rest of the article. Suffice it to say, it's a load of crap. Nothing personal, any attempts to explain science-fiction end up being mostly crap anyway because it would all violate the laws of physics. There's nothing wrong with saying it's fiction, based on a high-tech variant of magic, can't happen in our world so trying to explain it in physical terms would be meaningless; so just accept it for what it is and enjoy.

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    Default Re: Science and Pokémon: A Good Catch: Exploring the technology behind Poké Balls

    I wonder if the idea that Pokemon become weaker in Pokeballs (an idea made canon by both N and Cyrus) will ever be implemented in game somehow in the future?

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    Default Re: Science and Pokémon: A Good Catch: Exploring the technology behind Poké Balls

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjack Gabbiani View Post
    Will there be more in the scientific field? Because I'd like to see airships covered at some point, including how even a relatively unwealthy research assistant (Zero) can afford one, because that must speak volumes about their availability.
    ... I thought Zero stole the airship from Newton. Besides, those massive airships aren't really that common. Only Hunter J, Lawrence III and Brandon have them.
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    Default Re: Science and Pokémon: A Good Catch: Exploring the technology behind Poké Balls

    Quote Originally Posted by HKim View Post
    And then one has to wonder, does the Pokemon's soul survive in all of that as well? Might the loss of the soul be the reason for the weakening of Pokemon after it has been "capture"?

    And yes, I agree with Alex. That comic is amazing.
    Nooo! my pokes are soulless killing machines...."cries".

    All well this makes you wonder where technology fits into the Pokemon world... Quantum data transfer and teleporters... (Wheres my star ship to a mine on Mars !)
    I guess if Pokemon had science things would go like this (News Flash! earlier a kid died after successfully capturing a Groudon and trying to pick up the pokeball....)
    Last edited by Dragrath; 22nd July 2011 at 01:56 PM.

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    A black and white world Blackjack Gabbiani's Avatar
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    Default Re: Science and Pokémon: A Good Catch: Exploring the technology behind Poké Balls

    Quote Originally Posted by Drakon View Post
    ... I thought Zero stole the airship from Newton. Besides, those massive airships aren't really that common. Only Hunter J, Lawrence III and Brandon have them.
    I seem to recall that Newton had drawn up the plans for it but hadn't constructed it yet.

    Also, I KNEW I wasn't alone in classifying the Battle Pyramid as an airship! Seems hardly anyone considers it such!

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    Default Re: Science and Pokémon: A Good Catch: Exploring the technology behind Poké Balls

    Quote Originally Posted by Blackjack Gabbiani View Post
    I seem to recall that Newton had drawn up the plans for it but hadn't constructed it yet.
    I watched the movie less than a week ago, and Newton designed the airship, but destroyed all his plans when he realised that it would kill Giratina when extracting its power. Zero somehow managed to recover the plans, and built the airship.

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    Default Re: Science and Pokémon: A Good Catch: Exploring the technology behind Poké Balls

    Something similar to the way pokemon are stored was addressed on the anime. On the episode, The Master of Mirage Pokemon, the pokemon that were being used to fight with were constructed of tiny fragments of data but were constructed in a way that they were solid just like a normal pokemon. Now while a hologram and a living creature are different, its possible that they were able to find a way to convert pokemon to data. However as to the pokemons soul, perhaps its emenating around the pokeball while the pokemon is inside waiting for it to be released. Because like Professor Oak said in that episode "you cant convert a soul into data". Either the soul is outside the ball or it finds some way of containing itself along with the data inside the pokeball. Thus ends my attempt at discerning pokemon using science.
    And now to go off onto another possibility. In the anime and games there are several things that would be deemed impossible. Such as, Squirtle using water gun, hes a tiny turtle theres no way he would be able to store much water inside his tiny body. Another example is the aspect of time and space that Dialga and Palkia are able to manipulate. It being a fictional story, pretty much anything is possible and since they person who created pokemon decided it would be nice if trainers could carry their pokemon without them having to be out all the time, he made the Pokeball.

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