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  1. #91
    追放されたバカ Spyspotter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fairies and the Fairy Type: Why Fairies aren't a bad idea for a type

    Quote Originally Posted by Grass Type Trainer View Post
    Can people stop complaining about the lack of sound/light/whatever type already?

    It didn't happen. Get over it.

    No, Fairy shouldn't have been called 'light' because they are two completely different concepts. Stop bitching. Light didn't happen. It's not gonna happen for a while, if at all. Get over it.

    No, Sound is not a good idea for a type (hey, at least Game Freak doesn't seem to think so.) It didn't happen. It's not gonna happen for a while, if at all. Get over it.

    Like it or not, what we got is the Fairy type. Bitching and moaning about your [insert idea for a type which you thought would be OMGZsoCool!!!111!!!z here] isn't gonna change that. Move. On.

    As for the Fairy type itself, there have only been five fairies revealed so far. Only two of those are new Pokemon. I personally think it's too early to decry that Fairy is 'ewwwie' because it 'haz teh girl-cooties' or anything silly like that.

    Even if Fairy does turn out to be a 'girly' type, that doesn't mean it has to suck. Frankly, anybody that has a problem with 'girly' things really is just an insecure, immature person, and I exhort them to get over themselves already.

    Like it or not, Fairy is here to stay. Chances are you're still dishing out your cash for a copy of X/Y when it comes out. So, really people, just get over it.
    First of all, I'm not a moron. A lot of this stuff is offensive. And second of all, all I was doing was saying a couple of types which might be good. Also, a lot of this post doesn't make sense. Just because Game Freak didn't create the noise type doesn't mean they think it's a bad idea. Maybe they didn't think of it. Plus, only 19 Gen VI Pokémon were introduced yet, and for all we know, it could exist. And why is it a bad idea? You didn't supply a reason. I wasn't being mean.

    Also, the reason that I don't like fairy-types is not because they're feminine. Look throughout this thread and you will see men aren't the only ones who hate the idea.

    Finally, I know others have said it before, but the "deal with it" attitude will not get you very far. If everyone dealt with everything, then the Nazis would still be in power.

  2. #92
    Registered User Stratelier's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fairies and the Fairy Type: Why Fairies aren't a bad idea for a type

    Quote Originally Posted by Alan Smithee View Post
    It's just a single new type. It will effect gameplay, but not to the maxinum. Even so, Pokémon is still a monster-raising JRPG - how would one new type - [LESS] THAN WHAT GEN II INTRODUCED MIND YOU - cause people to say "Welp, one new type that changes almost nothing about the gameplay? POKEMON SUCKS!!!11"
    Just because the type exists doesn't mean you have to have one on your team. For example, I pretty much NEVER use Poison-types in battle. Sure, I may train one from time to time just to register its evolution in the Dex, but after that it more or less just collects dust in the PC. Yeah, I'm probably just biased against the type as a whole, but there are just no Poison-type Pokemon I actually like.

    So for all the Fairy-haters, just research what it is weak to and keep a few of those on your team.

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    Default Re: Fairies and the Fairy Type: Why Fairies aren't a bad idea for a type

    Fire types are hot. Water types are soaky. Grass types are plantish. How are fairy-types different from every blatancy of almost every other type?!
    Could you make this question any easier? Types like Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, etc. are all elements. Types like Fairy, Dragon, Bug, Ghost are not elements or anything close. That's how Fairy is different from what you listed. Dragons are dragon-like, Bugs are bug-like, Ghosts are (mostly) ghost-like... Fairies are just "cute", not actually like any fairy in any other media.

    As for the argument that it's just one type and that it can be ignored - that doesn't excuse poor game design. "Just ignore their mistakes!" is basically the same argument as "just deal with it". This mistake shouldn't have been made in the first place - if you don't think it's a mistake, give a real argument in defense of it, don't just say pretend the mistake doesn't exist.

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    Default Re: Fairies and the Fairy Type: Why Fairies aren't a bad idea for a type

    Quote Originally Posted by Latias418 View Post
    Ghosts are (mostly) ghost-like... Fairies are just "cute", not actually like any fairy in any other media.
    You do realize the hypocrisy of this?

    Quote Originally Posted by Latias418
    As for the argument that it's just one type and that it can be ignored - that doesn't excuse poor game design. "Just ignore their mistakes!" is basically the same argument as "just deal with it". This mistake shouldn't have been made in the first place - if you don't think it's a mistake, give a real argument in defense of it, don't just say pretend the mistake doesn't exist.
    We know barely anything about the Fairy type, aside from it being super-effective against Dragons, two moves, and five Pokemon being introduced of the type, with only two of them being designed with Fairy in mind. Claiming it's poor game design is so silly and is similar to a child throwing his toys out of the pram.

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    Have a pancake. Green Zubat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fairies and the Fairy Type: Why Fairies aren't a bad idea for a type

    This article was alright, and interesting, but I still didn't like it. It still felt like the author was trying to gloss over Fairy's cute and fluffy persona, despite the fact that it seems to be an important part of Fairy's type design so far, which I find a little sad, tbh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Latias418 View Post
    Fire types are hot. Water types are soaky. Grass types are plantish. How are fairy-types different from every blatancy of almost every other type?!
    Could you make this question any easier? Types like Fire, Water, Grass, Electric, etc. are all elements. Types like Fairy, Dragon, Bug, Ghost are not elements or anything close.
    Actually, if we're going by the esoteric definition of an element (which is what you seem to be going for), then the standard, classical roster constitutes fire, water, earth, air, and spirit, the last of which is represented by Ghost. So Ghost is an element, by this definition. That said, how is any of this relevant? GF's elements aren't based purely on philosophical elements, as you just pointed out.

    Dragons are dragon-like, Bugs are bug-like, Ghosts are (mostly) ghost-like... Fairies are just "cute", not actually like any fairy in any other media.
    Yeah, because cute is such an alien concept for fairies.
    Last edited by Green Zubat; 18th June 2013 at 01:39 PM.



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    Default Re: Fairies and the Fairy Type: Why Fairies aren't a bad idea for a type

    Just noting here that revealed pokémon are cute not just because they are Fairies alone, but also mostly for the sake of marketability. So one must take them with a grain of salt. (And, as much sense Marill does or does not make, it IS a marketable pokémon)

    Flabébé seems to be the better example of the type anyways: It's a little sprite thing from the forest. It's cute, and relatively close to a pixie. This doesn't mean Fairies only include cute pixies, but it's the most popular concept of it.
    The same way Caterpie is a good simple example of a Bug type or Sandshrew a good simple example of a Ground type. You later have bugs based on incredibly specific creatures, and Ground types that show how far the concept goes.


    As for depowering Dragons... now that I think of it, and seeing the introduction of Noivern, I'm thinking that what they're trying is to put the type as a more "mundane" one. Now, personally I'd have gone for something else (such as simply making weaker Dragon pokémon) since this will be a hit for the already more normal Dragons such as Altaria or Flygon. Or maybe have Fairy resist instead of being SE so you don't screw up the Ice type...
    But the result GF to me seems to seek is simply to have them as any other type. A weak Dragon won't be equal to an strong Fire type, basically. And preassumbly Noivern will be a mundane Dragon.

    Was this a poor balancing idea? I think so, since it doesn't really address the actual problems there are (best stats, virtually unresisted STAB). But even if it will hinder these normal Dragons, I don't think that's really much of a big deal, other than possibly seeing more common Dragons around.
    The one real problem I see with this is screwing up even further the offensive balance of Ice.


    tl;dr
    - I don't think we've seen enough to give an idea of what the type means but with what I consider to be the most meaningful expression of it so far I think what most people are considering is a reasonable expectation.
    - While the Dragon SE hardly is the best balance, it works for what I think they wanted to do, and ultimately I think it won't matter that much in that regard anyways. (Now, on Ice types... well, that's really on its own category, given it's a lot of problems piling up)

    [/overexposition]

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    Default Re: Fairies and the Fairy Type: Why Fairies aren't a bad idea for a type

    You do realize the hypocrisy of this?
    No, I do not. Unless you're referring to the fact that a select few of the newer Ghost Pokemon are not ghost-like, which is something I previously addressed.

    We know barely anything about the Fairy type, aside from it being super-effective against Dragons, two moves, and five Pokemon being introduced of the type, with only two of them being designed with Fairy in mind. Claiming it's poor game design is so silly and is similar to a child throwing his toys out of the pram.
    We know enough. If Steel had been unveiled in Generation II and it was revealed that Pikachu, Clefairy, and Alakazam were Steel type, it would be more than enough to tell that a horrible game design mistake was being made. I do not appreciate the ad hominem - there is absolutely no reason to resort to personal attacks. I've given a detailed explanation for why this is a terrible mistake, which is being ignored by you in favour of comparing my displeasure with this execution of Fairy type to a child's tantrum.

    It doesn't matter what's revealed next. The current five Pokemon we know have absolutely no common traits between them other than being cute, while simultaneously all having nothing to do with any kind of fairy (except, maybe, Furabebe). Pokemon's Fairy type is defined by nothing more than being cute. They might reveal Fairy Pokemon that are more closely associated with any type of fairy, but that doesn't change the fact that there are now Fairy Pokemon who have nothing to do with fairies and were made Fairy type on the sole basis that they are cute.
    Last edited by Latias418; 18th June 2013 at 03:10 PM.

  8. #98
    Have a pancake. Green Zubat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fairies and the Fairy Type: Why Fairies aren't a bad idea for a type

    Quote Originally Posted by Latias418 View Post
    You do realize the hypocrisy of this?
    No, I do not. Unless you're referring to the fact that a select few of the newer Ghost Pokemon are not ghost-like, which is something I previously addressed.
    And which Ghosts, exactly, would those be? Beause I personally can't think of any that don't fit their Ghost-typing.

    We know barely anything about the Fairy type, aside from it being super-effective against Dragons, two moves, and five Pokemon being introduced of the type, with only two of them being designed with Fairy in mind. Claiming it's poor game design is so silly and is similar to a child throwing his toys out of the pram.
    We know enough. If Steel had been unveiled in Generation II and it was revealed that Pikachu, Clefairy, and Alakazam were Steel type, it would be more than enough to tell that a horrible game design mistake was being made. I do not appreciate the ad hominem - there is absolutely no reason to resort to personal attacks. I've given a detailed explanation for why this is a terrible mistake, which is being ignored by you in favour of comparing my displeasure with this execution of Fairy type to a child's tantrum.

    It doesn't matter what's revealed next. The current five Pokemon we know have absolutely no common traits between them other than being cute, while simultaneously all having nothing to do with any kind of fairy (except, maybe, Furabebe). Pokemon's Fairy type is defined by nothing more than being cute. They might reveal Fairy Pokemon that are more closely associated with any type of fairy, but that doesn't change the fact that there are now Fairy Pokemon who have nothing to do with fairies and were made Fairy type on the sole basis that they are cute.
    I disagree. All of the Pokemon revealed to be Fairy-type thus far fit the name. Flabebe is clearly a nature spirit, for example, Gardevoir is rather elfish, and Sylveon & Jigglypuff have the lunar connection (which seems to be a thing with fairies in Pokemon). The only one odd one out seems to be Marill, but of course we don't know all the details of the Fairy-type, so this could also make sense later on in hindsight. Whilst cute definitely seems to be a thing with Fairy, it's also clear that there's more to it than that.



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    Default Re: Fairies and the Fairy Type: Why Fairies aren't a bad idea for a type

    I've always think of fairy as creatures with natural affinity to nature. The sun, the moon, the earth.
    That being said, I would not mind changing Celebi, Jirachi, Manaphy & Shaymin; part fairy types. Altho I know, that's zero percent gonna happen.
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    Registered User Stratelier's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fairies and the Fairy Type: Why Fairies aren't a bad idea for a type

    Quote Originally Posted by Latias418 View Post
    It doesn't matter what's revealed next. The current five Pokemon we know have absolutely no common traits between them other than being cute, while simultaneously all having nothing to do with any kind of fairy (except, maybe, Furabebe).
    I would not call these five Pokemon a representative sample of the type at large when three of them were designed well before the type itself. GF has only recently opened the Fairy box and pulled out five Mons; we won't know what else is still waiting in that box until later.

    As for the matter of Jigglypuff vs. Clefairy, I'd wager that they chose Jigglypuff because it's more recognizable than Clefairy is. It has more frequent appearances in the anime (including being a recurring character at one point), plus playable appearances in the Smash Bros. series.

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    SHSL Shōjo Queen Lufenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fairies and the Fairy Type: Why Fairies aren't a bad idea for a type

    Gardevoir fits the Fairy-type (somewhat) due to its Japanese naming; Sirknight.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kayde View Post
    "OH HOT DAMN! LOOK AT THAT FUCKING BELL! IT'S SMALL AND CUTE AND HAS A FUCKING RIBBON ON IT'S FUCKING HEAD! BACK THIS PARTY VAN UP! I GOTTA CATCH THAT SHIT!!"

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    Default Re: Fairies and the Fairy Type: Why Fairies aren't a bad idea for a type

    And which Ghosts, exactly, would those be? Beause I personally can't think of any that don't fit their Ghost-typing.
    Jellicent, for example. It doesn't actually have any ghost-like traits - the best you could say for it is that it floats, but that alone is an extreme stretch for being a ghost. Sableye is another example - it's creepy, but it's not really a ghost.

    I disagree. All of the Pokemon revealed to be Fairy-type thus far fit the name. Flabebe is clearly a nature spirit, for example, Gardevoir is rather elfish, and Sylveon & Jigglypuff have the lunar connection (which seems to be a thing with fairies in Pokemon). The only one odd one out seems to be Marill, but of course we don't know all the details of the Fairy-type, so this could also make sense later on in hindsight. Whilst cute definitely seems to be a thing with Fairy, it's also clear that there's more to it than that.
    I'll concede Furabebe has a connection with fairies. The other four, not so much.

    Gardevoir is not elfish. It's humanoid, but being humanoid alone doesn't make one elfish, and it has no other traits in common with any type of elf. Some people have tried to justify Gardevoir as a Fairy type because magic, but that's just flat out wrong. Gardevoir has always had very distinctly psychic powers, not magical powers.

    Lunar connection isn't a trait of any fairy I've ever seen or heard of. If you can point me to something with fairies that have a lunar connection, I'll concede Jigglypuff, but otherwise that's not an example of why Jigglypuff is actually fairy-like. Also, where are you getting the fact that Sylveon has a lunar connection? We don't know anything about it other than the fact that it's a Fairy and that it evolves from Eevee.

    So given that these four have nothing to do with fairies, and nothing in common with Furebebe and each other than being cute... my point still stands that the only requirement for being Fairy type is being cute.

    I've always think of fairy as creatures with natural affinity to nature. The sun, the moon, the earth.
    Fairies do have a connection with nature in many depictions, but the sun and moon aren't a part of that connection.

    I would not call these five Pokemon a representative sample of the type at large when three of them were designed well before the type itself. GF has only recently opened the Fairy box and pulled out five Mons; we won't know what else is still waiting in that box until later.
    Then they've made a major mistake; they shouldn't have picked those Pokemon to be Fairy type Pokemon, and they exacerbated it by putting the spotlight on their huge mistake during the big reveal. If every single Fairy type revealed from here is associated with fairies in some way, that would make the mistake less severe, but not eliminate the existence of the mistake.

    Gardevoir fits the Fairy-type (somewhat) due to its Japanese naming; Sirknight.
    You're going to have to explain that one to me, because I don't see the connection.
    Last edited by Latias418; 19th June 2013 at 02:09 AM.

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    Hyping over Steven Stone Yato's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fairies and the Fairy Type: Why Fairies aren't a bad idea for a type

    Quote Originally Posted by Versus View Post
    Gardevoir fits the Fairy-type (somewhat) due to its Japanese naming; Sirknight.
    The name doesn't really have any connections to being Fairy. If anything, the name implies that Gardevoir is a 'knight' - as in "knight in shining armor".

    Gardevoir is a guardian angel, if anything.

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    SHSL Shōjo Queen Lufenian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Fairies and the Fairy Type: Why Fairies aren't a bad idea for a type

    Knights fight dragons in many depictions; Saint George & The Dragon being one that springs to mind.

    A loose connection, I admit, but it does fit given the name.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kayde View Post
    "OH HOT DAMN! LOOK AT THAT FUCKING BELL! IT'S SMALL AND CUTE AND HAS A FUCKING RIBBON ON IT'S FUCKING HEAD! BACK THIS PARTY VAN UP! I GOTTA CATCH THAT SHIT!!"

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    Default Re: Fairies and the Fairy Type: Why Fairies aren't a bad idea for a type

    If you're going to introduce a new type, then it has to come in a set of three or more to keep types balanced. The reason that Gen. II got away with introducing 2 types was because the types were somewhat balanced and needed to be fixed. Dark's strength against ghost prevented Gengar from being the new Mewtwo. Bug's strength against dark encouraged their use as a type. Metal's strength against ice prevented them from getting too powerful, while fire's strength against metal encouraged their choice as a starter. After all, fire was strong against grass, bug, and ice. Even then, the only Gen. I ice types that fire was strong against were Jynx and Articuno.

    Now, we have only one new type. And its purpose is to "counter the dragon type?" I don't think so. All dragons are countered against. All legendary dragon-type Pokémon are banned from tournaments, so that can be considered as countering them. Face it, all non-legendary dragon types except for Dragonite, Kingdra, Flygon, Salamence, Garchomp, Haxorus, and Hydreigon are garbage, and 4 of those have a 4x weakness to ice moves. Because their are lots of Pokémon that know Thunderbolt and Ice Beam, they can be knocked of the battlefield rather quickly. Aside from the ice weakness, Hydreigon is weak to fighting moves, which are common, as well as bug moves. That leaves us with Kingdra and Haxorus. Haxorus is rather slow and can easily be defeated by ice or even dragon moves, while Kingdra doesn't have the best defences in the world. They both can be knocked off the battlefield in a few turns. Besides, if you want to counter something, why not Spiritomb or Sableye? They have no weaknesses.

    So what is the common trait that all fairy typed Pokémon have? The answer: marketability. Nintendo already had a type that was popular among the female audience: the normal type. But Gen. III introduced Slaking and Exploud, and Gen. IV made it worse by introducing Porygon-Z, Regigigas, and Arceus. Gen. V tried to fix it by introducing Audino and Lillipup, but it didn't work. The answer: fairy type. Nintendo will put all of the Pokémon marketable to the female audience in one type. Face it, all 5 fairy Pokémon known are very marketable. It's not cuteness that binds those Pokémon together. I think all of those designs (except for Gardevoir) are ugly, and I think Pokémon like Probopass, Garbodor, and Unown are cute, and they most likely won't be fairy types. "Cute" is a matter of opinion.

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