CoroCoro August issue reveals 'Genesect': No. 649 has finally arrived - Page 4

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Thread: CoroCoro August issue reveals 'Genesect': No. 649 has finally arrived

  1. #46
    A real monstrosity SnorlaxMonster's Avatar Bulbanews Board of editorsBulbapedia StaffArchives Advisor
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    Default Re: CoroCoro August issue reveals 'Genesect': No. 649 has finally arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchedThunder View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SnorlaxMonster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ArchedThunder View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SnorlaxMonster View Post
    I doubt they will use DLC to give us the last Pokemon. It would make it way too easy to hack new Pokemon into the game and trade them to other games. Also, it would mean an outdated game would need to patch before trading for an event legend from an updated game.

    However, I think DLC could be used to add new forms to old games.
    That's not how DLC works, this has never been a problem for any game that has DLC.
    If there is a new Pokemon added via DLC, to communicate with another game, either they simply cannot communicate (this is what usually happens, and have experienced this myself with connecting two PC games via LAN on different patches) or one game will need to patch the other. If it is simply a new form, it would work like the Enigma Berry or Gen III Deoxys in battle. However, if you try and trade a new Pokemon, there will be issues. Likewise, in battle, what sprite is it going to use?

    3DS DLC really hasn't been used much. Usually DLC is for console or PC games, where communication is usually only done over the internet. Usually you can't even connect to the online server without the patch; however, when you are doing local connection, as is often the case with handhelds, it is not so easy to get the patch. It could restrict players from communicating just because one has a patch another doesn't, which is not something Game Freak would want. If one game does patch another (I suppose this has been done before with the Berry glitch), then it could work, but there is still a security issue.

    Perhaps the ease to hack fake DLC is a non-issue, as people have made fake event distributions and distributed them at GameStop stores at the time of a real event before anyway.
    Most modern games have the ability to revert back to an older version if you are playing with some one who doesn't have the same patch as you, they could also make the patches mandatory for online play. As For playing locally they could simply lock those Pokemon if the other player hasn't downloaded a patch that would contain the information or just use download play. It isn't really a problem.
    So how would that work in the Union Room? If one player has one in their party, can they simply not trade any of their Pokemon with the other player, since you can view the other player's party while trading? And if they attempt to battle, will they simply be prevented from doing so if the new Pokemon is in their party and their opponent does not have it?

    Yes the games can usually revert to an older version to communicate, but the issue is how the Pokemon is dealt with. If it is in the party, you can't simply pretend that it doesn't exist to communicate.

    And yes, the latest patch would be required for online play. That's how pretty much everything works.

    Another minor issue is that the Easy Chat System has the names of all Pokemon in it. If someone with the new Pokemon sends out that message in the Union Room, puts it in Mail, uses it as a Battle Facility quote, etc. then how would the other player receive it? Sure, they could get rid of the system altogether and allow players to simply type, thus completely destroying inter-language communication.


    It may be possible to set up, but why would Game Freak go to all that effort when the current system works perfectly well? Sure, we find out about them early, but a large part of their audience doesn't.

  2. #47
    CottonSheepFairy 33Whimsicott33's Avatar
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    Default Re: CoroCoro August issue reveals 'Genesect': No. 649 has finally arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    Guys, you do know that with the advent of DLC on the 3DS, this could very well be the very last time a Pokémon is revealed that we've previously known about?
    And I'm so ready for this. Genuine secrets, back before the fanbase got big or attentive enough for hackers to crack unobtainables early. Just like old times...
    Joshawott likes this.
    Oh?

  3. #48
    Registered User ArchedThunder's Avatar
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    Default Re: CoroCoro August issue reveals 'Genesect': No. 649 has finally arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by SnorlaxMonster View Post

    So how would that work in the Union Room? If one player has one in their party, can they simply not trade any of their Pokemon with the other player, since you can view the other player's party while trading? And if they attempt to battle, will they simply be prevented from doing so if the new Pokemon is in their party and their opponent does not have it?

    Yes the games can usually revert to an older version to communicate, but the issue is how the Pokemon is dealt with. If it is in the party, you can't simply pretend that it doesn't exist to communicate.

    And yes, the latest patch would be required for online play. That's how pretty much everything works.

    Another minor issue is that the Easy Chat System has the names of all Pokemon in it. If someone with the new Pokemon sends out that message in the Union Room, puts it in Mail, uses it as a Battle Facility quote, etc. then how would the other player receive it? Sure, they could get rid of the system altogether and allow players to simply type, thus completely destroying inter-language communication.


    It may be possible to set up, but why would Game Freak go to all that effort when the current system works perfectly well? Sure, we find out about them early, but a large part of their audience doesn't.
    3DS Download play.
    This is a non-issue.

  4. #49
    A real monstrosity SnorlaxMonster's Avatar Bulbanews Board of editorsBulbapedia StaffArchives Advisor
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    Default Re: CoroCoro August issue reveals 'Genesect': No. 649 has finally arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchedThunder View Post
    3DS Download play.
    This is a non-issue.
    So to communicate, one game would first have to patch the other via Download Play? And if they didn't the other game wouldn't show up in the Union Room at all? And attempting to communicate via Infrared would also fail, as the other game wouldn't exist?

  5. #50
    Registered User ArchedThunder's Avatar
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    Default Re: CoroCoro August issue reveals 'Genesect': No. 649 has finally arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by SnorlaxMonster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ArchedThunder View Post
    3DS Download play.
    This is a non-issue.
    So to communicate, one game would first have to patch the other via Download Play? And if they didn't the other game wouldn't show up in the Union Room at all? And attempting to communicate via Infrared would also fail, as the other game wouldn't exist?
    It would be automatic.

  6. #51
    A real monstrosity SnorlaxMonster's Avatar Bulbanews Board of editorsBulbapedia StaffArchives Advisor
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    Default Re: CoroCoro August issue reveals 'Genesect': No. 649 has finally arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by ArchedThunder View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SnorlaxMonster View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ArchedThunder View Post
    3DS Download play.
    This is a non-issue.
    So to communicate, one game would first have to patch the other via Download Play? And if they didn't the other game wouldn't show up in the Union Room at all? And attempting to communicate via Infrared would also fail, as the other game wouldn't exist?
    It would be automatic.
    3DS Download Play isn't automatic. It still functions exactly like the DS one did. You need to go into the specific application for it from the home menu, search for software to download, and select it.

  7. #52
    Fan of Fire. Master Clyde Super's Avatar
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    Default Re: CoroCoro August issue reveals 'Genesect': No. 649 has finally arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Enzap View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Master Clyde Super View Post
    Yep, Generation 5 is officially over, at least when the magazine comes out. Anyway, at least now we might see some Generation VI Pokemon soon. I can't even imagine any more starter Pokemon they could make, I wonder how Nintendos gonna handle it.
    Woah now, just because the final Pokemon has been revealed doesn't mean Gen V is completely over. Arceus was revealed way before Gen V started.
    Oh, yeah. I phrased that wrong.

  8. #53
    Time Traveler Silktree's Avatar
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    Default Re: CoroCoro August issue reveals 'Genesect': No. 649 has finally arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by SnorlaxMonster View Post
    So to communicate, one game would first have to patch the other via Download Play? And if they didn't the other game wouldn't show up in the Union Room at all? And attempting to communicate via Infrared would also fail, as the other game wouldn't exist?
    Download Play wouldn't need to be used. You mentioned the berry glitch patch yourself, so I am not sure where you're coming from. The way Colosseum automatically updated Ruby and Sapphire upon any communication is a very good example of what could happen in the future. Once communication between two peers is established, each would automatically check if certain data is exclusive to any of the two; in the event of a gap, both games would be synchronized to have the same updates.

    If one game does patch another (I suppose this has been done before with the Berry glitch), then it could work, but there is still a security issue.
    What security issue? If you're referring to hacking, that has always been a problem.

    And if they didn't the other game wouldn't show up in the Union Room at all?
    The Union Room is almost certainly headed for an overhaul with the advent of online communities. But either way, I don't see what makes it stand out. Any kind of peer-to-peer communication should require the syncing up process, even if only for the sake of looking at another player's data.

    Do bear in mind that at least in Japan, most players will receive updates (whatever they may be) via SpotPass and StreetPass without even realizing it.

    And attempting to communicate via Infrared would also fail, as the other game wouldn't exist?
    What's so special about Infrared? Why wouldn't the other game exist?
    Last edited by Silktree; 20th July 2012 at 02:46 AM.

  9. #54
    Who am I? Joshawott's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: CoroCoro August issue reveals 'Genesect': No. 649 has finally arrived

    Nintendo have recently patented a system where a system update can be sent from one 3DS to another, so it seems likely that say, if Pokémon X is made available to download via DLC, then the download will also contain a patch that will be sent to any games that try to battle or trade with the game that has Pokémon X downloaded.

    Nintendo seems to have done it at first to try and force system updates on people (So if they implement it, you'll need both no connection and no friends to avoid them xD), but I can also see it being used in stuff like this.

  10. #55
    Time Traveler Silktree's Avatar
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    Default Re: CoroCoro August issue reveals 'Genesect': No. 649 has finally arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    Nintendo have recently patented a system where a system update can be sent from one 3DS to another,
    They needed to patent something so elementary?

  11. #56
    Who am I? Joshawott's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: CoroCoro August issue reveals 'Genesect': No. 649 has finally arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Silktree View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    Nintendo have recently patented a system where a system update can be sent from one 3DS to another,
    They needed to patent something so elementary?
    Yes. Yes they did.

  12. #57
    A real monstrosity SnorlaxMonster's Avatar Bulbanews Board of editorsBulbapedia StaffArchives Advisor
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    Default Re: CoroCoro August issue reveals 'Genesect': No. 649 has finally arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Silktree View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by SnorlaxMonster View Post
    So to communicate, one game would first have to patch the other via Download Play? And if they didn't the other game wouldn't show up in the Union Room at all? And attempting to communicate via Infrared would also fail, as the other game wouldn't exist?
    Download Play wouldn't need to be used. You mentioned the berry glitch patch yourself, so I am not sure where you're coming from. The way Colosseum automatically updated Ruby and Sapphire upon any communication is a very good example of what could happen in the future. Once communication between two peers is established, each would automatically check if certain data is exclusive to any of the two; in the event of a gap, both games would be synchronized to have the same updates.
    I'm not exactly sure why the Berry glitch occurred and what the patch did, but it can't have been more than just a minor adjustment since it was applied in the time it took to simply download an event Pokemon. I suppose one Pokemon's data isn't that large either, but the issue is really the risk of someone potentially creating a fake Pokemon which would permanently prevent the game from ever being legit, even after deleting the save file, at no fault of the player.

    If one game does patch another (I suppose this has been done before with the Berry glitch), then it could work, but there is still a security issue.
    What security issue? If you're referring to hacking, that has always been a problem.
    Yes, it has always been an issue, but if you hack a Pokemon to have a move it shouldn't, you can simply release it. Fake events can be deleted (although they will use up the Wonder Card ID still and potentially prevent the player from getting an event that uses the same ID). If your game is patched from a hacked game, there is nothing you can do to restore it.

    And if they didn't the other game wouldn't show up in the Union Room at all?
    The Union Room is almost certainly headed for an overhaul with the advent of online communities. But either way, I don't see what makes it stand out. Any kind of peer-to-peer communication should require the syncing up process, even if only for the sake of looking at another player's data.
    Yes, perhaps an online Union Room would make sense. But the idea is that at present it exists for local communication, and that is what is the issue here. There isn't that much they can do to overhaul local communication.

    Do bear in mind that at least in Japan, most players will receive updates (whatever they may be) via SpotPass and StreetPass without even realizing it.
    While the game is designed mainly with Japan in mind, they don't completely ignore other countries (especially with the advent of online communication). And even in Japan, games cannot simply rely on the fact that the other is probably patched.

    And attempting to communicate via Infrared would also fail, as the other game wouldn't exist?
    What's so special about Infrared? Why wouldn't the other game exist?
    I was referring to a situation where one game is on a different patch to another. It is the same situation as the Union Room, just it is the other major form of local communication.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshawott View Post
    Nintendo have recently patented a system where a system update can be sent from one 3DS to another, so it seems likely that say, if Pokémon X is made available to download via DLC, then the download will also contain a patch that will be sent to any games that try to battle or trade with the game that has Pokémon X downloaded.

    Nintendo seems to have done it at first to try and force system updates on people (So if they implement it, you'll need both no connection and no friends to avoid them xD), but I can also see it being used in stuff like this.
    A System Update is a rather large thing that can take a long time, especially from v1.0. I don't expect them to make it do it automatically while communicating; I would expect it to be a manual feature. That is how most devices do it.

    And the current firmware wouldn't be set up to receive a System Update via wireless automatically; it would likely be done via Download Play.

  13. #58
    ... ... ... Ash_Pokemaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: CoroCoro August issue reveals 'Genesect': No. 649 has finally arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by SnorlaxMonster View Post
    ...
    A problem is a problem for as long as you don't realize it. When you realize all those potential problems, what makes you think Game Freak won't? The game's code isn't God-sent -- people make it; and they can make it as they please so that no problems occur at all.

  14. #59
    A real monstrosity SnorlaxMonster's Avatar Bulbanews Board of editorsBulbapedia StaffArchives Advisor
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    Default Re: CoroCoro August issue reveals 'Genesect': No. 649 has finally arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by Ash_Pokemaster View Post
    A problem is a problem for as long as you don't realize it. When you realize all those potential problems, what makes you think Game Freak won't? The game's code isn't God-sent -- people make it; and they can make it as they please so that no problems occur at all.
    I'm very aware that Game Freak aren't perfect; I'm the one in charge of articles about glitches on Bulbapedia. However, the security risks with this are obvious, and Game Freak has an array of staff. If someone doesn't see the obvious danger of allowing games to patch each other automatically, I would be very surprised.

    Also, it would be easier for them to simply include the Pokemon in the games like they have always done. Has Game Freak ever admitted disappointment that fans online found out about Pokemon before their official announcement?

  15. #60
    ... ... ... Ash_Pokemaster's Avatar
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    Default Re: CoroCoro August issue reveals 'Genesect': No. 649 has finally arrived

    Quote Originally Posted by SnorlaxMonster View Post
    I'm very aware that Game Freak aren't perfect; I'm the one in charge of articles about glitches on Bulbapedia. However, the security risks with this are obvious, and Game Freak has an array of staff. If someone doesn't see the obvious danger of allowing games to patch each other automatically, I would be very surprised.
    There's no obvious danger, as in, things works as you decide you want them to work. You're saying that there are issues in the said system of DLC Pokémon. I say that there aren't, because the said system has not yet been made -- and when it is made, it will be made so that it counters potential problems, like hacking.

    You seem to be thinking that they should have utilized the security needed for a DLC system on a game that doesn't have it. Yes, hacking is not bound to be countered in Generation III or IV, since there is no native infrastructure for adding new Pokémon or moves. Why do you assume they will overlook all those obvious threats to their system on a game that does have such an infrastructure?

    There aren't things that can't be done; if they decide to utilize the concept of adding new Pokémon mid-Gen, it's their job to make the system work, and they will.
    Last edited by Ash_Pokemaster; 20th July 2012 at 06:16 AM.

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