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  1. #31
    Super Moderator Paperhorse's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Best Wishes! Wish List: What do you wish for?

    Great job on the article, Hellion! It was really well written and I enjoyed reading it. You must have spent a lot of time on it.

    I agree with most of what you are saying in the article. I think the rivalry with Trip has a lot of potential, it just needs to be developed more, and better written.

    And Moltanic, 28 episodes is plenty of time to form an opinion on it. It's more than enough actually.

  2. #32
    megane shota hurristat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes! Wish List: What do you wish for?

    Man, I suddenly remember why I stopped venturing into the Anime portion of the fora -- the arguments are too vicious and there is way too much ad hominem.

  3. #33
    Child of the Atom Hellion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes! Wish List: What do you wish for?

    Thanks to both Hurristat and Paperhorse for the comments. Both your opinion pieces were excellent so this means a lot coming from you!

    Quote Originally Posted by Moltanic View Post
    You do realize Hellion, that there's only been 28 Episodes of Black and White?
    Actually, we've only seen 25, and at the time this article was written, only the first 14 episodes had aired. While you're entitled to your opinion, this piece was what it advertised to be: a wish list. It's what I'd like to see happening throughout Best Wishes! and whether or not, based on the episodes I had seen at that point, the writers were going in that direction.

    How much personality do you remember Ash's team having at the beginning of DP?
    What's your point though? Pointing to DP doesn't disprove the observations I made in the article.

    But to answer question, in the first 14 episodes of DP, the writers had established personalities and storylines for both Turtwig and Aipom. The former acted as a referee, showed stubborness and had a storyline since he didn't fully trust Ash, refusing to dodge attacks; the latter was mischievous and playful, and had a storyline established quickly, its love for contests. You're right about Starly. Although he shined in the thirteenth episode, he didn't really have anything unique about it before evolving and that was a bad thing. He would have been a more well-rounded, three-dimensional character had he had more personality and a better storyline.

    You tried to make Noctowl sound like this amazing fighter
    I said no such thing. I simply said that the writers made him unique and different (superior intellect, psychic attacks and shininess) which they haven't really done with Pidove.

    You seem to think that unless a trainer acts like the Mom from "a Child Called "It"' they aren't a worthy rival.
    You're putting words in my mouth here. There's a lot of ways to make a "serious" rival work, because ultimately, what made Paul good as a rival wasn't anything really in his character (altough he was developped little by little), it's that he was Ash's foil. Because he's the opposite of Ash, we get to see more of Ash. Ash's rivalry with Paul gave the writers the opportunity to develop Ash and establish his own personality, his own battling style. Trip doesn't provide that yet, which is why I wish he would.

    See... an actual debate, without insults or anything. Might want to try that the next time.

    Quote Originally Posted by gotpika View Post
    Hikari did contest Iris doesn't there's a difference between development and new sparkly coordinator stuff.
    You're right, there is difference between developpement and contests. In the first 14 episodes, Dawn had already improved as a trainer (learning how to capture pokémon), had also started training as a coordinator (shown Piplup how to use contest moves in DP007) and we even saw glimpses of her lack of confidence in herself and her inferiority complex towards her mother in the Jubilife contest. Those confidence issues were followed up in the Pachirisu capture episode and led to Dawn's storyline of getting her confidence back later in the saga, which continued all the way until the end of the Grand Festival.

    Developpement. There.

    At the time this article was written, Iris had expressed no dreams of her own; she hadn't really worked on her stated goal of training Kibago outside of a short sparring match; she hasn't shown any real character flaw she needs to work on...

    Lack of Developpement. There.

    I don't call being a jerk plot development at all.
    Ash's rivalry with Paul affected Ash on a very basic level. Paul releasing a pokémon in their first meeting really established how drastically different their philosphies and chracters worked.

    Quote Originally Posted by hurristat View Post
    the arguments are too vicious and there is way too much ad hominem.
    Sadly you're not wrong, but... sadly, you expect the kind of people who would put "protecting" fictional characters or show over other human beings...

  4. #34
    Christmas Bubble Frog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes! Wish List: What do you wish for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post



    You're right, there is difference between developpement and contests. In the first 14 episodes, Dawn had already improved as a trainer (learning how to capture pokémon), had also started training as a coordinator (shown Piplup how to use contest moves in DP007) and we even saw glimpses of her lack of confidence in herself and her inferiority complex towards her mother in the Jubilife contest. Those confidence issues were followed up in the Pachirisu capture episode and led to Dawn's storyline of getting her confidence back later in the saga, which continued all the way until the end of the Grand Festival.
    What's your point? Hikari was a newbie Iris has shown she knows how to catch Pokemon. Yeah and Iris was helping teach Kibago how to battle in episode 9. Again what's your point. I still don't see your point? She had little confidence about herself and lost contest after contest. Which lead to many contest wins with the help of Nozomi. You seem to be ignoring that BW aint even that far along. Have some patience once in a while, being Bias against Iris all over the forum isn't cool at all. When you write an Article your suppose to eliminate Bias not throw it in there.

    Character Development. Development. Development. Development. Jeez I swear people these days use the word so loosely.

    It's a cartoon how about enjoying it and not getting bent-outta shape over little things? You insult Iris like it's a bad drinking game.

    Shinji was basically an asshole pretty much all the way until the final few appearances. He released Pokemon and showed no weakness you call that development? Sounds more like establishing his character to me.
    Last edited by Bubble Frog; 2nd April 2011 at 07:45 PM.

  5. #35
    back to the start Arc Blader's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes! Wish List: What do you wish for?

    Quote Originally Posted by gotpika View Post

    It's a cartoon how about enjoying it and not getting bent-outta shape over little things? You insult Iris like it's a bad drinking game.
    ...Or how about thinking while you watch something and being able to rationally critique it? I may not have seen much of BW, but I don't think Iris has done anything that makes Hellion's dissatisfaction undeserved.

  6. #36
    Christmas Bubble Frog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes! Wish List: What do you wish for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Arc Blader View Post
    ...Or how about thinking while you watch something and being able to rationally critique it? I may not have seen much of BW, but I don't think Iris has done anything that makes Hellion's dissatisfaction undeserved.
    I doubt most people are "pulling episodes" apart when they watch the cartoon it's for fun not serious computing it puts a damper on the fun when people go overboard.

    Hellion has gone around the forum bashing Iris it's obvious he doesn't like her. He's ignoring the fact that the writers are writing the story and know what they're doing and acts like he could write the characters better.

    There was a bit of dislike for Iris when she was introduced just because of her hair? Mostly older fans. That's pretty dumb I think we can agree right?

  7. #37
    Hero in a Half Shell Duckgon Z's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes! Wish List: What do you wish for?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    At the time this article was written, Iris had expressed no dreams of her own; she hadn't really worked on her stated goal of training Kibago outside of a short sparring match; she hasn't shown any real character flaw she needs to work on...
    This is the only thing I really wanted to address, since everything else was spot on.

    Iris has a flaw, actually displayed in today's dub episode. She's unwilling to take Ash's advice on how to train or control her Pokemon. She wants to be this tough adult trainer, but she wants to do it her way. And while there's nothing wrong with that, but a more experienced trainer (please don't anyone give me that crap about Ash being reboot, he is still the same trainer just because there's no Uber powerful dick like Paul doesn't mean he's a Kanto level n00b now) is trying to give her advice and she's shutting him out because of how he acts...which is no bearing on how good a trainer he is. I think we're supposed to learn from Iris right now, not exactly root for her as of yet.

    She's doing what she's doing at her own pace. It's kind of complicated, I mean they're no rush for Iris as a person to raise Axew as fast as she can...but at the same time we know about the Cosmic Deadline that her character faces, she pretty much has to have Haxorus by the time Ash gets to the League. And she's not getting as many tangible steps is simple because...she has no side quest. It's sort of backwards like Gen, like why have like ever 2nd episode dedicated to her and her Pokemon if her only goal is to raise Axew?

    Blah I'm kind of rambling, but I guess what I'm trying to get at is that the writers seem to be doing something different with Iris, it's not necessarily bad or good (especially since we have no clue how long this saga will last or what kind of twists and turns will happen and how it'll all end), but I just think that whatever both Iris and Cilan bring to BW, we haven't even scratched the surface.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    A lot of people point out that Pikachu beat Regice and is therefore super powerful, but I tend to ignore that because it was such a bullshit victory. That wasn't a showcase of how powerful Pikachu had become; it was simply terrible, terrible writing.

  8. #38
    RONALDO!!
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    Default Re: Best Wishes! Wish List: What do you wish for?

    For Ash to start growing some balls and win a league

    For a misty cameo :D

  9. #39
    My Sword Hand Twitches! Owain's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes! Wish List: What do you wish for?

    this was a good article, the things he mentioned, are, indeed true, but i'm sure they'll be solved as time goes on.

  10. #40
    i wANNA BE A HETALIA TOO Umeko's Avatar Archives StaffBulbapedia Staff
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    Default Re: Best Wishes! Wish List: What do you wish for?

    Hellion, I've been getting some replies to the Bulbapedia twitter in response to your article, so I figured I might as well pass them over to you. :D

    Quote Originally Posted by James_Rocket
    @bulbapedia I love the Wish List *-*
    Here, also retweeted by Heart_PM

    Quote Originally Posted by PokemonHiker
    @Bulbapedia: Good article on the new anime series - I hope the Team Rocket story line fleshes out well
    Here

    On that note, I enjoyed your article as well. Very well thought-out, and very well-written - and I agree with many of the points you made. :3

  11. #41
    Registered User SatoHaruFan2248's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes! Wish List: What do you wish for?

    I would like to see Iris get kicked off. She is my least favorite girl in Pokemon. I would love the writers to replace her with either Misty or May. Also have a sad moment where Team Rocket decides to kill Pikachu and Ash later meets up with Touya to take down Team Rocket with a gun that May sent him. Also I have loved Pikachu since the beginning, I have always wondered what would happen if he was killed and how Ash would react to it.

  12. #42
    Registered User Ambipom666's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes! Wish List: What do you wish for?

    Great article Hellion! It is really detailed and I'd say accurate.... you even strayed away from cactus girl insults!

    My Best Wishes wish list?

    A slightly Alternate Universe.

    My sig says it all.
    Last edited by Ambipom666; 3rd April 2011 at 05:27 PM.
    Kanto's Route 23 doesn't exist in the Johto games!


    My ideas for a more game-faithful Best Wishes! series.

    The Jewel Party

  13. #43
    Registered User StarBP's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes! Wish List: What do you wish for?

    The aspects that seem like a return to the beginning... that's exactly what Nintendo wanted. They're basically rebooting the series (and not just the anime), only keeping those aspect which are truly needed. In many ways they have made it like Gen. I all over again. In other ways (such as updated graphics in the games and the whole Team Rocket thing in the anime) they are making it different. IMO it's similar to what the comic "For Better or for Worse" did, but it's better since they are not simply rerunning everything with slight alterations; they are instead resetting NOT the plot, but rather the spirit (look and feel) of the show. [SPECULATION]The reboot is part of their master plan, culminating in 2013 when they release Generation VI and it's 1999 all over again in terms of the popularity of Pokémon.[/SPECULATION]
    Creator of StarCalc Ultimate Pokémon Calculator

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  14. #44
    Christmas Bubble Frog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes! Wish List: What do you wish for?

    Quote Originally Posted by StarBP View Post
    The aspects that seem like a return to the beginning... that's exactly what Nintendo wanted. They're basically rebooting the series (and not just the anime), only keeping those aspect which are truly needed. In many ways they have made it like Gen. I all over again. In other ways (such as updated graphics in the games and the whole Team Rocket thing in the anime) they are making it different. IMO it's similar to what the comic "For Better or for Worse" did, but it's better since they are not simply rerunning everything with slight alterations; they are instead resetting NOT the plot, but rather the spirit (look and feel) of the show. [SPECULATION]The reboot is part of their master plan, culminating in 2013 when they release Generation VI and it's 1999 all over again in terms of the popularity of Pokémon.[/SPECULATION]
    Sorry to disappoint you but Pokemon Best Wishes! isn't a reboot.

  15. #45
    Child of the Atom Hellion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Best Wishes! Wish List: What do you wish for?

    Quote Originally Posted by gotpika View Post
    When you write an Article your suppose to eliminate Bias not throw it in there.
    This was an opinion piece. Key word: Opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arc Blader View Post
    thinking while you watch something and being able to rationally critique it
    Exactly. No television show, no movies, no book, in short no story is perfect. Everything has some good points to it and some no so good points to it; and therefore can be critiqued. In this article, I think I did it fairly, by basing my opinion on the episodes I had seen and what I wished to see in the future from the series.

    Quote Originally Posted by Duckgon Z View Post
    everything else was spot on.
    Thanks!

    Iris has a flaw, actually displayed in today's dub episode. She's unwilling to take Ash's advice on how to train or control her Pokemon.
    That's a valid point to raise, though I can't help but feeling it's not really something that can help Iris develop as an independant character. I mean, that would mean her developpement would come from her seeing Ash do something to convince her he's a good trainer.

    I think we're supposed to learn from Iris right now, not exactly root for her as of yet.
    And I think that's really my biggest issue with Iris as a character. She's on the main cast, she's supposed to be a hero and yet, there's nothing about her that really makes me want to root for her. Ultimately because the character has a goal but no real dream fueling it.

    It doesn't help that the writers are underusing her character. Except on a few occasions, when a problem arises, she just stays on the sidelines while Ash and/or Cilan do something about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Serperior View Post
    this was a good article, the things he mentioned, are, indeed true, but i'm sure they'll be solved as time goes on.
    Quote Originally Posted by Umeko View Post
    Hellion, I've been getting some replies to the Bulbapedia twitter in response to your article, so I figured I might as well pass them over to you. :D

    On that note, I enjoyed your article as well. Very well thought-out, and very well-written - and I agree with many of the points you made. :3
    Quote Originally Posted by Ambipom666 View Post
    Great article Hellion! It is really detailed and I'd say accurate....
    Thanks to the three of you! and thanks for those who took the time to tweet their opinions on the article. I'm really glad you guys liked it.

    you even strayed away from cactus girl insults!
    When I compare Iris to a tree... I'm thinking less cactus and more... purple weeping willow... :D
    Last edited by Hellion; 2nd April 2011 at 10:33 PM.

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