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  1. #16
    *rules with cotton fist* Kayi-chan's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media

    Quote Originally Posted by *Jirachi* View Post
    I have always wondered why Pokémon manga was put in the "VizKids" label in the first place. I'm sure that kids under 10 would buy these volumes even if the cover didn't have a special "for kids" mentioning there. So why "All ages" isn't enough?
    Yeah, that's pretty weird. It's as if they were marketing Pokemon to 5-6 year olds, not its actual target demographic; or worse, as if they're marketing this to parents. Imagine when the RS saga comes over, and parents see the blood... Viz will cancel PokeSpe right away!

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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media

    I don't quite enjoy Viz's "Kids" label. Zelda, Pokemon.. A lot of other Viz material are shonen but you don't see them under "Kids".

    No one doubts that Naruto or Bleach are for a young audience, but you don't see them slapping a "Kids" label on it.

    The Pokemon and Zelda manga can be just as grueling as any of their other series; heck, the first Zelda manga is down-right horrifically dark.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media

    Quote Originally Posted by 1dbad View Post
    That wasn't what I meant. I wasn't talking about online shopping, or people searching for titles by label alone, or any of that. You see, matt0044 posted a comment saying that he wished Viz would release the RS, FRLG and E arcs outside of the VizKids label and market them to teens, and I was saying reasons why they most likely will never do that. You see, if RS, FRLG and E were released outside of the VizKids label and marketed towards teens, those volumes would be put in the regular section of most bookstores instead of the Kids section. And I was just saying it would be odd for different parts of the series to receive different ratings since that would mean fans would have to go between two different parts of a bookstore to get their volumes (the kids section and the regular manga section), and that fans who were new to the series or didn't know better would possibly miss out on other parts of the series due to it not all being in the same section. (because fans new to the series and/or who didn't know any better wouldn't realize that the other parts of the manga exist and that they would have to go to a different section to find it)
    I can agree with this, the chain bookstores where I live actually have a "manga for kids" section so i have to go away from all the other manga to get to it/drag whoever i'm with into children's section just to look for Pokemon :V (though i usually get manga at dedicated comic stores anyways)

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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media

    Honestly, Viz should release an edition of Pokemon Adventures without the VizKids label since that seems to be the limiting factor on what Viz can show and not censor, especially for the RS, FRLG and E arcs if that's the concern. It could attract more Manga readers to the series if it's in the main Manga section of bookstores. Just a thought.

  5. #20
    Registered User 1dbad's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Honestly, Viz should release an edition of Pokemon Adventures without the VizKids label since that seems to be the limiting factor on what Viz can show and not censor, especially for the RS, FRLG and E arcs if that's the concern.
    Well releasing Adventures without the VizKids label would definitely help some, but I don't know if it would prevent every edit.

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    It could attract more Manga readers to the series if it's in the main Manga section of bookstores.
    I think it would.

  6. #21
    ロケット団よ永遠 Dogasu's Avatar Retired Staff
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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Kayi-chan
    It's as if they were marketing Pokemon to 5-6 year olds, not its actual target demographic
    Five to six year olds are actually within Pokemon's target demo.

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044
    Honestly, Viz should release an edition of Pokemon Adventures without the VizKids label since that seems to be the limiting factor on what Viz can show and not censor, especially for the RS, FRLG and E arcs if that's the concern.
    Removing the VizKids label doesn't guarantee that it'll run uncensored. Viz censors series without the label all the time.
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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    Removing the VizKids label doesn't guarantee that it'll run uncensored. Viz censors series without the label all the time.
    I don't recall them censoring Dragon Ball Z. Guess what that was rated.

  8. #23
    ロケット団よ永遠 Dogasu's Avatar Retired Staff
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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media

    What are you talking about? Both Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z had a ton of edits made to them.
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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    What are you talking about? Both Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z had a ton of edits made to them.
    You mean like how Raditz and Goku got blasted through the chest with Piccolo's Makankosappo? Or how Tenshinhan got his arm chopped off? Or how Freeza got sliced into pieces twice? How about all the perverted scenes in Dragon Ball like Bulma lifting her PJs to reveal no panties to Roshi? Oh wait, they were all kept in the Viz version. The only edit I saw was Mr. Popo's lips being removed.

    Are you talking about a censored version of the Manga?
    Last edited by matt0044; 13th August 2011 at 11:33 AM.

  10. #25
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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media

    Well, a Google search reveals that Viz has apparently gone back and released uncensored versions of the manga. But for a long while, all that was available was a censored version where Mr. Satan was referred to as "Hercule," mild curse words were censored (16's "Hell's Flash" became "Inferno Blast," for example), middle fingers got changed to fists, nudity was covered up, and guns were altered so that they shot lasers instead of bullets.

    They've edited other series just as extensively.

    My point is that removing the VizKids label from Pokemon manga wouldn't keep it safe from edits like the ones I just listed.
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  11. #26
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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    Well, a Google search reveals that Viz has apparently gone back and released uncensored versions of the manga. But for a long while, all that was available was a censored version where Mr. Satan was referred to as "Hercule," mild curse words were censored (16's "Hell's Flash" became "Inferno Blast," for example), middle fingers got changed to fists, nudity was covered up, and guns were altered so that they shot lasers instead of bullets.

    They've edited other series just as extensively.

    My point is that removing the VizKids label from Pokemon manga wouldn't keep it safe from edits like the ones I just listed.
    I guess I started with the uncensored version. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

    And though the Manga probably wouldn't be safe from censorship even without the VizKids label, I wouldn't mind the visual edits so much if they were actually well done for the few times they occur. Plus, more Manga readers would take a look at it if it was put in the main Manga section.

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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media

    I wonder why in certain points of Viz's translation, they're reluctant to say the word "death" and its synonyms yet don't suggest otherwise or try to cover it up like 4kids or Voltron would've.

  13. #28
    70% Critical Hit Rate Stratago's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media

    I think the problem with Viz's Pokemon manga releases is that they're afraid they'll lose money. Pokemon is associated with kids, and they generally don't assume that adults read it, so they change parts to make it so kids will understand it. Sure, anyone who's been exposed to Japanese culture wouldn't think twice about Crys's mom giving her a 'snap-out-of-it' slap, but in America I don't think parents are even allowed to spank their kids anymore.
    As far as the unreleased story arcs are concerned, I'm sure profitability is as large a concern for them as content. Their re-releases of original two story arcs (Red and Yellow) happened rather quickly so that, IMO, they could get to the Gold/Silver story, which was released relatively soon after HG/SS was in the US. (The game was released in march, and the manga was in august, six months later.)
    Then in march 2011, Viz announced that they'd be releasing the B/W manga in mini-volumes (the month the games were released), which hit stores in july, 4 months later.
    It's been 10 years since Ruby and Sapphire were released, so they're not in recent memory, and Viz probably thinks kids won't care to buy them.
    As far as content is concerned, the R/S story is very different from its predecessors; the general tone is more mature and the plot is less episodic. HG/SS is downright dark, and ends with a cliffhanger. Emerald (IMO) is outright wierd, and doesn't even star a character from the game; I slugged my way through it as fast as possible so that I could 'get to the good part', and I'm 29.
    I don't think we'll see a stateside release of any of those story arcs unless the much-rumored R/S remakes become a reality, and even then I'm kind of worried about the edits that will be made to both plot and artwork.

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  14. #29
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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratago View Post
    I think the problem with Viz's Pokemon manga releases is that they're afraid they'll lose money. Pokemon is associated with kids, and they generally don't assume that adults read it, so they change parts to make it so kids will understand it. Sure, anyone who's been exposed to Japanese culture wouldn't think twice about Crys's mom giving her a 'snap-out-of-it' slap, but in America I don't think parents are even allowed to spank their kids anymore.
    As far as the unreleased story arcs are concerned, I'm sure profitability is as large a concern for them as content. Their re-releases of original two story arcs (Red and Yellow) happened rather quickly so that, IMO, they could get to the Gold/Silver story, which was released relatively soon after HG/SS was in the US. (The game was released in march, and the manga was in august, six months later.)
    Then in march 2011, Viz announced that they'd be releasing the B/W manga in mini-volumes (the month the games were released), which hit stores in july, 4 months later.
    It's been 10 years since Ruby and Sapphire were released, so they're not in recent memory, and Viz probably thinks kids won't care to buy them.
    As far as content is concerned, the R/S story is very different from its predecessors; the general tone is more mature and the plot is less episodic. HG/SS is downright dark, and ends with a cliffhanger. Emerald (IMO) is outright wierd, and doesn't even star a character from the game; I slugged my way through it as fast as possible so that I could 'get to the good part', and I'm 29.
    I don't think we'll see a stateside release of any of those story arcs unless the much-rumored R/S remakes become a reality, and even then I'm kind of worried about the edits that will be made to both plot and artwork.
    Well, Viz said that they wanted to release the RS, FRLG and E arcs but TPCi won't let them as of now. It may be because TPCi know (or is guessing) that RS remakes are likely to come so they might let Viz release them if the remakes are announced and slated for a US release as a sort of marketing ploy. The RS and E arcs are based on Hoenn and while FRLG isn't exactly Hoenn based it does have Hoenn Pokemon and bridges the two other arcs together (and if Viz learns about Sird in the DPPt arc, they WILL release the arc she appears in, using her revealation in DPPt to get readers curious about what went on in the Sevii Island and why Red and the others were petrified). If no remakes are made, then we still might get them since Viz likely wants to make money off more Pokemon Manga regardless of the current Generation. It explains why they released the DPPt arc when BW was just being released in the US: they could release the Gen 3 arcs yet so they skipped ahead to release DPPt for more volumes to sell. Same with the BW arc.

  15. #30
    70% Critical Hit Rate Stratago's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Well, Viz said that they wanted to release the RS, FRLG and E arcs but TPCi won't let them as of now. It may be because TPCi know (or is guessing) that RS remakes are likely to come so they might let Viz release them if the remakes are announced and slated for a US release as a sort of marketing ploy. The RS and E arcs are based on Hoenn and while FRLG isn't exactly Hoenn based it does have Hoenn Pokemon and bridges the two other arcs together (and if Viz learns about Sird in the DPPt arc, they WILL release the arc she appears in, using her revealation in DPPt to get readers curious about what went on in the Sevii Island and why Red and the others were petrified). If no remakes are made, then we still might get them since Viz likely wants to make money off more Pokemon Manga regardless of the current Generation. It explains why they released the DPPt arc when BW was just being released in the US: they could release the Gen 3 arcs yet so they skipped ahead to release DPPt for more volumes to sell. Same with the BW arc.
    Oh, wow, I didn't know that Pokemon Co. blocked them. I just figured it was their own economic projections, when in fact it was kinda over their heads!
    I also forgot about Sird's appearance at the end of D/P/Pt; when Viz gets around to that chapter, readers are gonna be like, 'who's this creepy chick...?'

    Smogon: 'Nuff said.

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