The Pros and Cons of Viz Media
On Bulbagarden's Pokemon Anime forums, I posted a thread where Pokemon Anime fans could discuss the good things and the bad things about 4kids' English Version of Pokemon. I tried to post it on Serebii but a mod deemed it too controversial (not exactly but sort of) and locked it.
Here, Pokemon Manga fans can discuss the good and bad points about the main American distributor of Pokemon Manga, Viz Media. The reason is because I see some (key word being "some") similarities between 4kids and Viz in terms of translating and adapting Pokemon series and fan reception. Both companies are infamous among fans here for their various screw-ups (wrong names for wrong characters), censorship (be it sort of necessary or totally unnecessary) and more.
However, Pokemon Anime fans on Bulbagarden showed that they acknowledge the things that 4kids done right with the Pokemon Anime and gave credit where credit was due while also pointing out their mistakes. I think we should do the same for Viz Media here in this thread. Not that people haven't but I've seen too many people giving Viz more hate than they deserve. I don't love the company but I do appreciate them bringing us great Pokemon Manga.
Anyways, allow me to go first:
Pros:
1. Good translation and writing. With some exception, Viz manages to not only stick to their Manga's original story like superglue but they also manage to spruce up the dialogue for kids to enjoy. I enjoy it since the dialogue writers for Special or DPA can be very witty with a few lame joke here and there. This is essential for Pokemon series with plenty of comedy like DPA or the DP chapter of Special where Japanese jokes might not translate well into English. It also helps me like the characters more. I could go on but let's not and say we did.
2. They do their homework (most of the time). With a screw-up once in a while, Viz does manage to give the Manga characters their proper English names from the Pokemon games right down to even the minorest of characters like Joey, Elm's assistant in Special. They even get most of the game items' names right. They get things wrong, of course, but we'll get to that.
3. The things they let slip pass the radar. Viz has a tendency to let violent things slide, usually when it involves Pokemon getting hurt or hurting others. This does later make them seem hypocritical but we'll get into that soon.
There's more but I'm getting impatient and want to post this thread faster.
Cons:
1. The blatant errors that even a blind person could see. While most times Viz's editors manage to get things right, other times it seems like no one noticed the things they get wrong at the time. Maybe someone forgot to drink their coffee those times, maybe someone pulled too many all-nighter and was too tired to bother, maybe it was a last minute error in printing or maybe someone got stoned of his/her ***, who knows? The people there really need to run a more tighter ship. The mistakes are minor enough to cut Viz some slack but a mistake is still a mistake.
Examples: Not giving Red's Pokemon nicknames, mixing up names (be it Pokemon or people), the list goes on.
2. Translated the DPPt chapter early and before the RS/FRLG/E chapters. If they're not going to translate the latter first, why translate the former (given the spoilers with Sird)? I mean, come on! Need I say more?
3. The censorship (this is gonna be a big one). I'd like to believe that Viz censors certain things because they either fear getting sued by overzealous parents or just *****ed at by them, ruining their public image, and not because they actually think that censoring things like Crys getting slapped by her mother is necessary. They know how hypocritical and ridiculous these parents can get but also how they tend to get there way no matter what based on past events involving censorship.
Of course, this was a double-edged sword: on one hand, they prevent a possible lawsuit but on the other hand, they got fans of Pokemon Adventures/Special from these forums at their throats (not that they actually give a crap about us). But that's the nature of business: you just can't please everyone. There's always going to be someone who doesn't like something you do.
However, it's not really why they do it that bothers me but rather how they do it.
Like Crys getting a snap-out-of-it slap from her mom (who I honestly think is Crys's dad crossdressing) being changed to getting a glare: They should've instead edited the mom's mouth open and added a speech bubble to make her say "SNAP OUT OF IT, CRYS!" if they were going to the trouble of censoring the scene anyways. THAT would've been much better. That or keep it as it is.
Nonetheless, I dislike the censorship. Not as much as others who have ranted about it but I hate it nonetheless.
Sorry, I took so long but there was a lot to talk about. So, discuss away.
Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media
Viz shouldn't have released PokeSpe under their Kids label. We would have avoided censorship altogether, I think, if that had been the case. That's the main con.
Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kayi-chan 
Viz shouldn't have released PokeSpe under their Kids label. We would have avoided censorship altogether, I think, if that had been the case. That's the main con.
The thing is that Pokemon is generally marketed for all ages so it's natural that the Manga would be as well even in the USA. In fact, PokeSpe is aimed at ages 5 and beyond in Japan so I can't fault Viz for doing the same for America. Not to mention that the first three/four arcs in Kanto and Johto are overall tame in comparison to certain moments in the third gen. arcs.
Another thing is that the visual censorship (the only kind we really care about) over the course of the first fourteen volumes occurred only a few times, way less than ten in fact. In the grand scheme of the Manga, they're very minor problems and they barely affects the story, if at all. Hell, you could use your imagination to pretend that they don't occur, they're that minor. Overall, complaining about them seems more like nitpicking to me.
If anything, the RS, FRLG, and E chapters should be marketed for teens in America. It'd boost sales by attracting more Manga readers (mostly teens and adults) to the series and allow them to get away with less censorship than they could've before.
Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media
Pros:
- They have decent translations. And unlike most other big manga companies, kinda have some of more interesting stuff, at least in my opinion.
- They don't localize things as much as they once did.........
Cons:
- Viz Kids label.
- The way they're currently handling Pokemon Special, the other chapters as their own titles. But hey, that's what happens when they stupidly decide to cancel after the Yellow chapter for about a damn decade.
- They won't do reprints of Phoenix/Hi no Tori.
Nowadays I generally prefer lesser known publishers, such as UDON and Vertical.
Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media
Quote:
Originally Posted by
matt0044 The thing is that Pokemon is generally marketed for all ages so it's natural that the Manga would be as well even in the USA.
The thing is though Viz didn't have to put it on their VizKids label to give it an "All Ages" rating. I know they have some mangas that aren't on the VizKids label and have an "All Ages" rating. And the best thing about that is they get to remain in the actual manga section as well, which means manga fans of all ages could see the manga. I also think they're a bit less strict about censorship on "All Ages" manga compared to the "All Ages" manga under the VizKids label as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
matt0044 Hell, you could use your imagination to pretend that they don't occur, they're that minor.
That's true. The only problem is the people who don't know better can't do that though, since most of them will just think that's the way the manga was originally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
matt0044 If anything, the RS, FRLG, and E chapters should be marketed for teens in America. It'd boost sales by attracting more Manga readers (mostly teens and adults) to the series and allow them to get away with less censorship than they could've before.
To be honest if the manga got a Teen rating I don't think there would be any censorship at all. Heck, if they could have even given it a new rating between "All Ages" and "Teen" (kind of like how some games have a "10 and older" rating) I think it could have avoided most if not all of the censorship. It's just the double-damage of being an "All Ages" manga under the "VizKids" label that did it in.
As for RS, FRLG and E arcs being marketed for Teens though, I don't see it happening. If they did that kids wouldn't know about it because it wouldn't be in their section yet the teenage and adults fans wouldn't know where to find the other arcs since they wouldn't be in the regular manga section. That's why companies tend to like to give a single rating for an entire series; plus doing that makes it easier for them to be more consistent with their censorship. (not that a lot of companies are consistent with it to begin with...)
Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media
Quote:
Originally Posted by
1dbad As for RS, FRLG and E arcs being marketed for Teens though, I don't see it happening. If they did that kids wouldn't know about it because it wouldn't be in their section yet the teenage and adults fans wouldn't know where to find the other arcs since they wouldn't be in the regular manga section. That's why companies tend to like to give a single rating for an entire series; plus doing that makes it easier for them to be more consistent with their censorship. (not that a lot of companies are consistent with it to begin with...)
...What?
I honestly do not think that people search for titles by label alone, at all. I certainly don't. Whenever I'm searching for a book, I just type in the manga's name or the author. Labels are just there to serve as a category. In Viz Kids' case, it's meant to indicate that the manga is catered towards "kids".
Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rai Marshall ...What?
I honestly do not think that people search for titles by label alone, at all. I certainly don't. Whenever I'm searching for a book, I just type in the manga's name or the author. Labels are just there to serve as a category. In Viz Kids' case, it's meant to indicate that the manga is catered towards "kids".
That wasn't what I meant. I wasn't talking about online shopping, or people searching for titles by label alone, or any of that. You see, matt0044 posted a comment saying that he wished Viz would release the RS, FRLG and E arcs outside of the VizKids label and market them to teens, and I was saying reasons why they most likely will never do that. You see, if RS, FRLG and E were released outside of the VizKids label and marketed towards teens, those volumes would be put in the regular section of most bookstores instead of the Kids section. And I was just saying it would be odd for different parts of the series to receive different ratings since that would mean fans would have to go between two different parts of a bookstore to get their volumes (the kids section and the regular manga section), and that fans who were new to the series or didn't know better would possibly miss out on other parts of the series due to it not all being in the same section. (because fans new to the series and/or who didn't know any better wouldn't realize that the other parts of the manga exist and that they would have to go to a different section to find it)
Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media
Quote:
Originally Posted by
1dbad That wasn't what I meant. I wasn't talking about online shopping, or people searching for titles by label alone, or any of that. You see, matt0044 posted a comment saying that he wished Viz would release the RS, FRLG and E arcs outside of the VizKids label and market them to teens, and I was saying reasons why they most likely will never do that. You see, if RS, FRLG and E were released outside of the VizKids label and marketed towards teens, those volumes would be put in the regular section of most bookstores instead of the Kids section. And I was just saying it would be odd for different parts of the series to receive different ratings since that would mean fans would have to go between two different parts of a bookstore to get their volumes (the kids section and the regular manga section), and that fans who were new to the series or didn't know better would possibly miss out on other parts of the series due to it not all being in the same section. (because fans new to the series and/or who didn't know any better wouldn't realize that the other parts of the manga exist and that they would have to go to a different section to find it)
Never seen a manga for kids section, ever. All the manga I see is put in one section, all by alphabetical order. PokeSpe is never there. You're saying they have sections?! :eek: (it'll be months until I can visit a library again! Don't say that to me! :bawl: *gets depressed for missing PokeSpe*)
Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media
Alright, I admit that my idea is flawed and might not work as well as I said it would. Honestly, the RS, FRLG and E chapters should be released for kids but keep in the violence and death sorta like Dragon Ball Z Kai on Nicktoons but much more lenient with the content with little to no censorship. I mean, if something bloody and violent like the Dragon Ball Z Manga can be aimed at All Ages, why not the other chapters of Pokemon Adventures.
@Kayi-chan - Hey, at least you got the volumes anyways (I assume).
Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media
Quote:
Originally Posted by
matt0044 Hey, at least you got the volumes anyways (I assume).
No, I didn't. I have never seen any PokeSpe volumes, physically. Like, ever. And if there is a kids' section for manga, then that would explain it, wouldn't it?
Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kayi-chan No, I didn't. I have never seen any PokeSpe volumes, physically. Like, ever. And if there is a kids' section for manga, then that would explain it, wouldn't it?
You never thought to go onto Amazon or ask people working at the bookstore for help finding the Manga?
And no offense but I would never recommend scanlations. EVER! It's always best to support the official release. Great, now I sound like a disclaimer for a TV show on a Youtube video.
Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media
Quote:
Originally Posted by
matt0044 You never thought to go onto Amazon or ask people working at the bookstore for help finding the Manga?
I don't buy stuff through Amazon. And at the bookstore, I have like five minutes or less to run to the manga section at the very back (which I assume is the "teen/adult" one, since there's no PokeSpe), look for stuff, and take it to the counter to pay; my parents don't like libraries/bookstores. To top it, the only bookstore I know that carries manga is on the other side of the border, so I can't go on my own.
...my life is pretty dramatic, I know.
Quote:
And no offense but I would never recommend scanlations. EVER! It's always best to support the official release. Great, now I sound like a disclaimer for a TV show on a Youtube video.
Who said scanlations? I haven't read the manga beyond what is available through Chuang Yi before Viz came over. All the other stuff, I know through Bulbapedia and Coronis's summaries :-(
Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kayi-chan I don't buy stuff through Amazon. And at the bookstore, I have like five minutes or less to run to the manga section at the very back (which I assume is the "teen/adult" one, since there's no PokeSpe), look for stuff, and take it to the counter to pay; my parents don't like libraries/bookstores. To top it, the only bookstore I know that carries manga is on the other side of the border, so I can't go on my own.
...my life is pretty dramatic, I know.
I'll say! I mean, what kind of parents hate libraries or bookstores? Do they hate reading or something?
Quote:
Who said scanlations? I haven't read the manga beyond what is available through Chuang Yi before Viz came over. All the other stuff, I know through Bulbapedia and Coronis's summaries :-(
I wouldn't recommend CY considering their many name errors. I recommend that you take a look at Amazon for PokeSpe. Don't worry about the price since they're usually less than ten dollars in the US.
Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kayi-chan Never seen a manga for kids section, ever. All the manga I see is put in one section, all by alphabetical order. PokeSpe is never there. You're saying they have sections?! :eek: (it'll be months until I can visit a library again! Don't say that to me! :bawl: *gets depressed for missing PokeSpe*)
I didn't say there was. And as far as I know there isn't a kids manga section. They put kids manga in the kids section in general. And I wasn't talking about a library, I was talking about a bookstore, like Barnes and Noble. :-p
Quote:
Originally Posted by
matt0044 Alright, I admit that my idea is flawed and might not work as well as I said it would.
I'm sorry, I didn't mean to make your idea seem flawed or like it wouldn't work as well as you think. I actually like your idea, I was just trying to give a few reasons why I'm afraid it'll never happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
matt0044 I mean, if something bloody and violent like the Dragon Ball Z Manga can be aimed at All Ages, why not the other chapters of Pokemon Adventures.
I don't think violence is a problem at all. Viz never cares about violence in their mangas, even the kids ones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
matt0044 And no offense but I would never recommend scanlations. EVER! It's always best to support the official release. Great, now I sound like a disclaimer for a TV show on a Youtube video.
Haha you kind of do. xD Personally I think scanlations are okay as long as you still buy and support the official release, are just trying to them to see if you like a series or not, or if it's like, for a series that isn't licensed and doesn't have an official English release. But that's getting kind of off-topic, so that's all I'll say on the matter.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Kayi-chan And at the bookstore, I have like five minutes or less to run to the manga section at the very back (which I assume is the "teen/adult" one, since there's no PokeSpe), look for stuff, and take it to the counter to pay; my parents don't like libraries/bookstores.
Actually most bookstore manga sections have a bit of everything; it's just that they'll usually put the manga under the VizKids imprint in the kids section of the store, if there is one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
matt0044 I wouldn't recommend CY considering their many name errors.
Actually the CY releases aren't that bad at all. While they do make an occasional error or so here and there they have gotten better with each volume, and now their typical volume doesn't have anymore errors than a Viz one. It's just the first few volumes they translated themselves that were a little shaky. (mainly the first two)
And because of that, I find them both recommendable. It just depends on some factors which version is better for someone.
Re: The Pros and Cons of Viz Media
I have always wondered why Pokémon manga was put in the "VizKids" label in the first place. I'm sure that kids under 10 would buy these volumes even if the cover didn't have a special "for kids" mentioning there. So why "All ages" isn't enough?
