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  1. #196
    Is it funny? Sakarii's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Well, he clearly needed help to achieve his goal as old men can clearly only do so much even with crazy ice powers. So he got soldiers to do his bidding. The children part is the most questionable for me and that does bear elaboration. Though if you think about it, if you raise kids at an early age the way the MOI wanted, they'd be loyal to you years later thanks to the training you drilled into them. The MOI was probably a Drill Sergeant From Hell so the kids would never disobey him and sheltered them so they'd serve only him with no distractions from the outside world. He would be everything to the kids and nothing else would matter to them. There's more credit to this than you think. He underestimated Green and Silver as they escape to plot against him.

    Then again, I have read the FRLG arcs yet and that does expand on Blue/Green and Silver's escape and show their parents. Perhaps they have hints...
    Re-reading the first chapter on the FRLG arc, I think Yanagi was just lonely (and guilty). I don't think he really wanted soldiers, but a young something(s) or somebody(ies) to take care of. Maybe to try, in his own way, to deal with his issues with the dead Lapras parents. Naturally, since Yanagi is missing a few crayons, he doesn't do a good job and ends up with making soldiers. It doesn't really explain how come Blue (and Silver, but he seems to be mostly clueless) isn't affected by everything, though.

    I'm starting to think Yanagi needed more than one chapter to explain his character. I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to be a (grand-)father, but the death of his Lapras warped his thinking. He still wants to be a (grand-)father, but he's too focus on reviving those pokemon that he tries to combine both. And failing miserably. I don't think he's exactly insane as much as too committed to realize his folly. Coupled with whatever happened between him and his friends (another thing to elaborate on), he definitely had nobody to tell how stupid he was being.

    Of course, I could over-thinking all of that.
    "You're a true Samurai, being loyal to such a stupid Master." -Seijuro Hiko

  2. #197
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakarii View Post
    It doesn't really explain how come Blue (and Silver, but he seems to be mostly clueless) isn't affected by everything, though.
    I'd like to think that they were too smart for their own good. Plus, he did end up using Will, Karen, Carl and Sham as part of his plan with the latter two as Team Rocket Executives.

    Also, overthinking or not, it's nice to use head canon for stories you're invested in.

  3. #198
    Is it funny? Sakarii's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    ^ That makes me wonder if Carl and Sham had or like their parents. Maybe they didn't and that's why they were affected by MoI despite being the oldest. Silver was too young, though; he was only 2? so he couldn't be really have memories beforehand to think of running away. Blue was definitely too smart for her own good, I agree. She had to be to drag Silver's clueless body around the MoI HQ, haha.

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  4. #199
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    I'd like to say that Carl and Sham were possibly orphans at the time. Not that Pokemon altogether cared that much about parents.

  5. #200
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Pokémon Adventures/Special is awesome. My second favorite thing in the Pokémon universe (first is the games). I love it, it really expands along the plots with its own original twists and such, and the characters are all really cool. They "evolve" in their own ways. It's all so amazing. I love the Pokémon manga.

  6. #201
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Altogether Pokemon Adventures is amazing. The manga really makes pokemon come alive, it isn't all sunshine and rainbows like with Ash but has some touching moments as well (like with Pyrce and the Lapras.) I recommend it to anyone who likes pokemon.
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  7. #202
    2legit2quit izarith's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    i adore special. it has its issues - occasional inconsistencies, weird plot contrivances, etc. etc. - but overall it's just very enjoyable. the main characters aren't anything to write home about, but they all have distinctive personalities and development throughout the series. the battles are exciting and contain a lot of strategy that's often missing in the anime. and the humor (disregarding a few bad puns in the beginning) is on point and actually makes me laugh out loud on occasion. i also love the tone - not grim, because this is still pokemon and this is still a kids manga - but not always happy-go-lucky either. there are moments of sadness, there are on-screen injuries/violence and mentions of dying, and the world we're shown is not a perfect one.

    actually, probably my favorite part of special is how the villains are dealt with. (ok, mask of ice not so much, but the others, absolutely.) i've been thinking a lot lately about how giovanni & team rocket are presented in special. while i love them in the games, they never really felt like a threat to me. they were clearly after money, notoriety & little else. and giovanni in the anime just kinda seems like your typical mob boss asshole. (a loveable asshole, but still.) whereas in the manga he is more charismatic & more sympathetic, while also being a competent enemy. he can be threatening and intense, but he can also playact the nice guy role when need be. and most of all he seems to be acutely aware of what's going on: keeping tabs on people that could endanger his plans, helping those who might be of use to him in the future... basically playing a complicated game of chess.

    (warning: about to go off on a TL;DR semi-related tangent)
    but it's the inclusion of the gym leaders as TR members that really seals it IMO, especially when you consider what "rocket" stands for - raid on the city, knock out evil tusks. kinda nonsensical but also quite telling. TR in the manga seems to be founded on general disillusionment with society. they want to create a world controlled by team rocket, which they think will be much better than the world they're currently living in. they want to knock out the "evil tusks" who are currently in control and instate their leader instead.
    lt. surge, koga & sabrina were the perfect choices for TR agents for this reason. all of them have reason to dislike the society they live in. lt. surge used to be a soldier - many soldiers come home and are unable to fit back into their lives, having seen and done things that most civilians can't understand. judging by his general attitude, he doesn't seem like he would be PTSD-afflicted, but that doesn't mean he isn't affected at all by his memories. koga is clearly from a very traditional family, one that still upholds the "way of the ninja" so to speak. in this way i think he would feel left behind by modern society - he's still trying to be true to his clan and traditions, while the rest of the world moves on around him. and sabrina is pretty obvious. as a psychic she feels estranged from most people. knowing the future can be both a blessing and a curse, because she knows the actions of others even before they do. i think she is probably very jaded and weary of the world under her harsh, "bitchy" exterior, because she is able to glimpse inside people's minds and see their true intentions.
    i think a solid motive - in this case, to change the world for the good of the "outcasts" - is what makes a villain memorable, and that's why special!TR is so much more interesting to me than the other versions.
    (/TL;DR)

    anyways, yeah. i just have a lot of special-related feelings ;p

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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Quote Originally Posted by izarith View Post
    (warning: about to go off on a TL;DR semi-related tangent)
    but it's the inclusion of the gym leaders as TR members that really seals it IMO, especially when you consider what "rocket" stands for - raid on the city, knock out evil tusks. kinda nonsensical but also quite telling. TR in the manga seems to be founded on general disillusionment with society. they want to create a world controlled by team rocket, which they think will be much better than the world they're currently living in. they want to knock out the "evil tusks" who are currently in control and instate their leader instead.
    lt. surge, koga & sabrina were the perfect choices for TR agents for this reason. all of them have reason to dislike the society they live in. lt. surge used to be a soldier - many soldiers come home and are unable to fit back into their lives, having seen and done things that most civilians can't understand. judging by his general attitude, he doesn't seem like he would be PTSD-afflicted, but that doesn't mean he isn't affected at all by his memories. koga is clearly from a very traditional family, one that still upholds the "way of the ninja" so to speak. in this way i think he would feel left behind by modern society - he's still trying to be true to his clan and traditions, while the rest of the world moves on around him. and sabrina is pretty obvious. as a psychic she feels estranged from most people. knowing the future can be both a blessing and a curse, because she knows the actions of others even before they do. i think she is probably very jaded and weary of the world under her harsh, "bitchy" exterior, because she is able to glimpse inside people's minds and see their true intentions.
    i think a solid motive - in this case, to change the world for the good of the "outcasts" - is what makes a villain memorable, and that's why special!TR is so much more interesting to me than the other versions.
    (/TL;DR)

    anyways, yeah. i just have a lot of special-related feelings ;p
    I gotta say: that's a very neat way at looking at TR in Special.

  9. #204
    Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    I really like Pokemon Adventures/Special. The storylines in most of the arcs are pretty engaging, the main characters can be pretty likable and the battles are usually great. Although, I think that the battles in D/P/Pl leave a lot to be desired, but even then, the character interactions within the main group are pretty solid and the fifth volume showed some major improvements for me. Anyway, I do like how the evil teams have been handled with Team Rocket being much more threatening than I think they are in either the anime or the video games. From what I remember, Team Magma/Aqua were handled pretty nicely too. It clearly isn't perfect with some of the writing issues it has, some of the main characters aren't as handled as well as others, most of the Pokemon themselves lack personalities and the pacing can be problematic. I also think that it's hyped up way too often as being so dark and serious compared to the anime. It does have a more serious tone, but it's still aimed at kids just like the anime is. Still, I like the series and enjoy reading the various volumes that I have.

  10. #205
    Registered User Saiga's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    To be honest, I see more "dark and serious" comments coming from detractors who exaggerate the darker moments to act as though it doesn't suit Pokemon.

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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    About Red and Green not receiving enough character development, I do agree about that as Red and Green where given giving a back story and Yellow is also lacking character depth although Silver, Blue, Ruby, Sapphire, and Emerald did have a back story and in depth character development. Also about Diamond, Pearl, and Platinium there are some seens from their childhood, but they not undergone any character development, but the arc is not finished yet. Also I do agree with the poster that said that the anime is worse than Pokemon is an opinion rather than a fact as people have different feelings than others.
    Also Pokemon Special uses Blues parents as a plot device as they neither talk and the author never develops a relationship between them. Sapphire and Platinum have won gym battles and obtain all eight badges, but are never shown to compete in the Pokemon Leagues of their specials regions as this manga focuses on them fighting the evil team organizations in their respective region.

    Also about the adaptational villainy of some characters the gym leaders and the Elite Four memebers in the video games that were villainized did not have any establish character as they were just there for the player to battle. In my opinion main Pokemon video games lacks character depth develop and making the plot driving although in Pokemon HeartGold and Soulsilver there is a sceen where you meet up with the rival and Team Rocket attacking the Kimono Girls and the Radio and that scene where the Giovanni talks to the rival, but most of the but most of the screen in the main Pokemon games is just about battling trainers along the way and think about strategies on how to defeat them and does not develop the majority of the Elite Four, and the Gym Leaders as I also played Pokemon LeafGreen, Sapphire, and Diamond, and they are basically the same. Also the character either sympathetic back stories or turn good later on whereas in some other fiction I have seen worse adaptational villainy where people make characters evil and give them no sympathetic back story nor does not make them become good.
    Last edited by Mika555; 23rd August 2012 at 03:29 PM.

  12. #207
    70% Critical Hit Rate Stratago's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Satoshi Tajiri (y'know, the creator of Pokemon?) said "This is the comic that most resembles the world I was trying to convey." If that's not reason enough to read it, I dunno what more people want.
    Lots of people seem to hate on the series for its portrayal of characters like Brendan and May in the Hoenn arc, because they're 'different than they are in the game', but I don't even remember either of them having personalities beyond "generic rival character".
    They also complain about Dia, Pearl and Platina for their characters being extremely different. Well, has anyone ever heard of Hareta, Mitsumi, & Jun...?
    I think the Poke Spe is the longest-running Pokemon manga for a reason, and the reason is that its the best. It sticks to the core stories of the arcs while not regurgitating the same dialog that you've already read in-game, which I think is refreshing. I wonder what people who don't like this manga because it's 'different than the games' think of the anime's renditions of characters like Skyla (or, for that matter, the anime as a whole)?

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  13. #208
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Quote Originally Posted by Stratago View Post
    Satoshi Tajiri (y'know, the creator of Pokemon?) said "This is the comic that most resembles the world I was trying to convey." If that's not reason enough to read it, I dunno what more people want.
    Lots of people seem to hate on the series for its portrayal of characters like Brendan and May in the Hoenn arc, because they're 'different than they are in the game', but I don't even remember either of them having personalities beyond "generic rival character".
    They also complain about Dia, Pearl and Platina for their characters being extremely different. Well, has anyone ever heard of Hareta, Mitsumi, & Jun...?
    I think the Poke Spe is the longest-running Pokemon manga for a reason, and the reason is that its the best. It sticks to the core stories of the arcs while not regurgitating the same dialog that you've already read in-game, which I think is refreshing. I wonder what people who don't like this manga because it's 'different than the games' think of the anime's renditions of characters like Skyla (or, for that matter, the anime as a whole)?
    For the record, at the time Tajiri said that line, not only was Special only at one volume, the competition was two gag mangas and that vaguely pornish adaptation of the anime. Not exactly a close call there.

    I have never heard anyone complaining about Special just because it was different from the games. If anything, it follows them too closely, trying to cram every little thing into the storyline just because it exists in the games (like making those Dodrio minigames vitally important for Red and Green's starters learning their new signature moves, for example).

    And just for the record, Special isn't the longest-running Pokemon manga- that honor belongs to the Pocket Monsters gag manga, which is actually the more popular of the two in Japan.

  14. #209
    70% Critical Hit Rate Stratago's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Quote Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu View Post
    For the record, at the time Tajiri said that line, not only was Special only at one volume, the competition was two gag mangas and that vaguely pornish adaptation of the anime. Not exactly a close call there.
    Let us not discuss the atrocity that is Electric Tale of Pikachu in this sacred place; regardless of the absurd level of fanservice...


    Regardless, the 'feel' of the series hasn't really changed, so I think its still relevant.

    Quote Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu View Post
    I have never heard anyone complaining about Special just because it was different from the games.
    My thoughts on this are based on a number of posts in this thread, wherein people gripe about how the 'characters are different from the way they are in the games', principally Brendan/Ruby, May/Sappire, Barry(STUPID name, IMO)/Pearl, Lucas/Dia, & Dawn/Platina.

    Quote Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu View Post
    If anything, it follows them too closely, trying to cram every little thing into the storyline just because it exists in the games (like making those Dodrio minigames vitally important for Red and Green's starters learning their new signature moves, for example).
    I find that kinda nice, because it gives the impression that the artist and writer actually play the games. (In various Author/Artist notes at the beginning of the volumes, it confirms it, too.) It can feel a little 'cramped' at times (like during the final battle with Giratina at the end of Platinum), but considering that ALL Pokemon media is, at its core, an advertisement for the games, why not showcase every little thing? Plus, in instances like Platina noting that her Cherrim switched Formes on its their way out of Distortion World, it shows that the Pokemon aren't just weapons to be used in proxy battles, and that the trainers recognize this.

    Quote Originally Posted by YamiiDenryuu View Post
    And just for the record, Special isn't the longest-running Pokemon manga- that honor belongs to the Pocket Monsters gag manga, which is actually the more popular of the two in Japan.
    You quote 'the record' a lot.
    Anyway, granted, Pocket Monsters (featuring that absurd, foul-mouthed Clefairy) was released a year earlier than PokeSpe, so technically it is the 'longest-running', but it has only 29 volumes, whereas PokeSpe has 41, and that doesn't include the B/W story arcs, which haven't had tankobon releases yet. I should have used the term 'most complete' over 'longest-running', I suppose, because I meant that PokeSpe had a lot more content than any other Pokemon Manga.
    Last edited by Stratago; 24th August 2012 at 02:15 PM.

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  15. #210
    Registered User Saiga's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Hey, Electric Tale of Pikachu was pretty cool actually.

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