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  1. #181
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakarii View Post
    On that note, does anyone now why he needed kids in the first place? I can't remember anything that explained that in GSC other that something about having strong trainers or something (I think?).
    He said that he scouted them for their talents in Pokemon. Like Green/Blue being the "Evolver" and Silver being the "Exchanger." Also, he believe that children could become the perfect slaves if they were taught early enough so they'd grow up to serve him and never disobey him. Which actually makes sense. Adults would rebel and give him too much trouble but kids, young and naive, would have his special training drilled in their heads and as an adult, he'd exert his authority over them so they'd have to obey him. Who knows how they were punished if they didn't.

    Sadly, Green/Blue and Silver proved to be more than he could handle.

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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Quote Originally Posted by Mareepy View Post
    From what you remember... yeah, I kindly advise you to read that again. If you don't have the comic, its almost everywhere online, just search it with google.
    So, it wasn't a picture, but a handkerchief, but DNA still doesn't factor into it. It was all psychic powers and little else. Dexoys just sensed the energy in the handkerchief, went looking for it, and whatnot.

    The DNA part was connected to Red, not Silver. Red's DNA got sucked in Dexoys and yadda yadda. So, yes, Sakaki could of easily found his son by going to a strong psychic user like... Hmm... Natsume, perhaps. Or, like someone else said, Matsuba, who was already shown to use his powers to find stuff.

    Or they could of at least showed/said they couldn't do it, so he needed something stronger. (This I would highly doubt, though.)

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    He said that he scouted them for their talents in Pokemon. Like Green/Blue being the "Evolver" and Silver being the "Exchanger." Also, he believe that children could become the perfect slaves if they were taught early enough so they'd grow up to serve him and never disobey him. Which actually makes sense. Adults would rebel and give him too much trouble but kids, young and naive, would have his special training drilled in their heads and as an adult, he'd exert his authority over them so they'd have to obey him. Who knows how they were punished if they didn't.

    Sadly, Green/Blue and Silver proved to be more than he could handle.
    Thanks. But, that does really bring up more questions than answers. If I had to guess with Yanagi, he probably punished them with more harsh training or things involving ice (or birds for Blue).
    "You're a true Samurai, being loyal to such a stupid Master." -Seijuro Hiko

  3. #183
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakarii View Post
    Thanks. But, that does really bring up more questions than answers. If I had to guess with Yanagi, he probably punished them with more harsh training or things involving ice (or birds for Blue).
    Questions like what? I can try and answer them if you want. It's not hard to understand: the kids who were kidnapped knew that to stay alive they had to follow the orders of the Mask of Ice who in turn drilled knowledge into their heads and put them through Training from Hell. He was smart in that they were young and he could make them into loyal subjects since they'd have little memory of their parents as they grew up and he'd practically be their father. It's hard too explain but believe me, it makes more sense than you'd believe.

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    Is it funny? Sakarii's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Questions like what? I can try and answer them if you want. It's not hard to understand: the kids who were kidnapped knew that to stay alive they had to follow the orders of the Mask of Ice who in turn drilled knowledge into their heads and put them through Training from Hell. He was smart in that they were young and he could make them into loyal subjects since they'd have little memory of their parents as they grew up and he'd practically be their father. It's hard too explain but believe me, it makes more sense than you'd believe.
    Oh, no, I got how it makes sense as to why he got them as kids. My questions deal with the reason whys and hows. Why did he need kids with talent? How did he know they had those talents (in Blue and Silver's case) when they were too young to even display them? What purpose would those kids serve if he had practically everything he needed except a made GS Ball? Those three are the ones that spring to mind right now. We see the kids generally causing havoc to stop people from interfering with his plans which is fine, but the whole "needing talents" thing suggests something else.
    "You're a true Samurai, being loyal to such a stupid Master." -Seijuro Hiko

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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakarii View Post
    Why did he need kids with talent?
    What good would they be if they didn't have something worth to him?

    How did he know they had those talents (in Blue and Silver's case) when they were too young to even display them?
    The MOI probably (and I'm just putting this out there) scouted out kids who seemed to be good with Pokemon for such a young age for one reasons or another that's not exactly elaborated. Like maybe he took one kid at a time and tested him/her before letting him/her go if he/she showed less potential than he expected. He settled on the six kids we know of eventually. For all we know, he didn't recruited them overnight.

    What purpose would those kids serve if he had practically everything he needed except a made GS Ball?
    Soldiers. Slaves to do his bidding so nobody would be able to interfere with him. He had two become executives of Team Rocket so there was one and Will and Karen went to guard the Ilex Shine (when he wasn't himself) or whatever behind the scenes.

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    Psycho Tsutarja fans Mareepy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakarii View Post
    So, it wasn't a picture, but a handkerchief, but DNA still doesn't factor into it. It was all psychic powers and little else. Dexoys just sensed the energy in the handkerchief, went looking for it, and whatnot.

    The DNA part was connected to Red, not Silver. Red's DNA got sucked in Dexoys and yadda yadda. So, yes, Sakaki could of easily found his son by going to a strong psychic user like... Hmm... Natsume, perhaps. Or, like someone else said, Matsuba, who was already shown to use his powers to find stuff.
    First of all, Deoxys being the DNA Pokemon is not because Giovanni linked it to Red, its because Deoxys itself already is. (Do I need to link the Pokedex or something?) And a handkerchief may have sweat from Silver, which the DNA can be tracked to find Silver. (If any other Psychic or Ghost type Pokemon doing this, it will end up like Morty's vision, blur and the location is not clear, you must guess yourself, and you kinda require something that the person currently owned)

    Or they could of at least showed/said they couldn't do it, so he needed something stronger. (This I would highly doubt, though.)
    A lot of things can be skipped, and Giovanni has Sabrina helping him for years, he should have get help from her, but eventually failed.

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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    What good would they be if they didn't have something worth to him?
    That answers nothing. He could of easily found kids and teach them skills and abilities. It would of saved time at any rate. It's not like the talents had any point... I mean, what were the talents with the other four anyways?

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    The MOI probably (and I'm just putting this out there) scouted out kids who seemed to be good with Pokemon for such a young age for one reasons or another that's not exactly elaborated. Like maybe he took one kid at a time and tested him/her before letting him/her go if he/she showed less potential than he expected. He settled on the six kids we know of eventually. For all we know, he didn't recruited them overnight.
    Makes sense and at the same time it doesn't. For someone so crazy and focused on his goal, it'll be kinda silly for him to waste time with finding kids that would be just used as soldiers. If they were going to help him get certain items (like the feathers) that he couldn't, then yeah, but he had all that. If anything, he should of been too busy trying to make the GS Ball then scouting and training kids. I would very much like to know how Silver, at aged 3ish, showed that he had exchanger skills (and why would that matter for Yanagi...). Even if he did need soldiers, two or three would of sufficed than six. Itsuki and Karin would of been perfect as they were willing and everything.

    And you have to admit, Lugia/Ho-Oh kidnapping them was over-the-top, though. Someone was bound to notice such birds considering how rare they are.

    Soldiers. Slaves to do his bidding so nobody would be able to interfere with him. He had two become executives of Team Rocket so there was one and Will and Karen went to guard the Ilex Shine (when he wasn't himself) or whatever behind the scenes.
    Good point there. Though, considering how things went he probably should of have forgone the kids, haha. But, alas, that's hindsight.

    ...How did Blue not manage to fall under his control, anyways? The other two were older, so by all rights those two should of been more rebellious than Blue...

    To be honest, the storyline would of been a little better if we did have a few extra chapters, as you said, to explain that maybe Yanagi wanted to be caught/captured (as cliché 'd as it is) or something. Some of the actions he did would make a bit more sense.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mareepy View Post
    First of all, Deoxys being the DNA Pokemon is not because Giovanni linked it to Red, its because Deoxys itself already is. (Do I need to link the Pokedex or something?) And a handkerchief may have sweat from Silver, which the DNA can be tracked to find Silver. (If any other Psychic or Ghost type Pokemon doing this, it will end up like Morty's vision, blur and the location is not clear, you must guess yourself, and you kinda require something that the person currently owned)
    I didn't say Sakaki linked it to Red or Deoxys wasn't a DNA pokemon, I said the DNA aspect in the plot existed because Deoxys WAS linked to Red via blood. Reading fail there. True with the sweat thing, but that's assuming a lot of factors and still doesn't make sense. It could easily be because of Deoxys' psychic powers allowed him to more easily see Silver. Deoxys doesn't see that clear of a picture either and searching via DNA like it did is kinda impossible. DNA is used to match things to help with searching (which fits more with the Red subplot). It's like you're saying Dexoys read the DNA on the handkerchief and then searched every person's DNA within seconds to find a match.

    The DNA and Silver idea would make more sense with that Sakaki didn't know if Silver was his son or if that was his handkerchief. That's what DNA is used for not for searching across the planet for a boy in a second, pokemon or not.

    (Once again, that's assuming. Each pokemon and person will have different strengths and different situations. If Matsuba ever met Silver, logically it should be easier to see and find him even with a very old handkerchief than compared to if he didn't. And with that picture, even Matsuba should have an easier time finding him than using some handkerchief.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Mareepy View Post
    A lot of things can be skipped, and Giovanni has Sabrina helping him for years, he should have get help from her, but eventually failed.
    Yeah, no. If it has to do with the plot skipping things is not a option. Anything concerning finding Silver is considered plot because it's the focus of mostly everything that happens in FRLG. Assuming again. Assumptions don't help your argument. There was never any hint that Natsume was helping him considering she didn't have a role after GSC and Sakaki wasn't looking for Silver until FRLG.
    Last edited by Sakarii; 6th July 2012 at 08:35 PM.
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  8. #188
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakarii View Post
    post.
    If I may ask, is there anything about PokeSpe that you truly like? With all this question, how can you know this series? Do you honestly read it despite your frustrations as though your obligated to? I would've just put it off a long time ago in your shoes.

    I also find it strange how my suspension of disbelief is very willing compared to yours. I mean, I tend to rationalize things and buy into things in fiction better than you. I'm not angry, just amazed at myself.

    I'm not trying to insult you. This is an honest question.
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Sakarii View Post
    post.
    If I may ask, is there anything about PokeSpe that you truly like? With all this question, how can you know this series? Do you honestly read it despite your frustrations as though your obligated to? I would've just put it off a long time ago in your shoes.

    I also find it strange how my suspension of disbelief is very willing compared to yours. I mean, I tend to rationalize things and buy into things in fiction better than you. I'm not angry, just amazed at myself.

    I'm not trying to insult you. This is an honest question.
    agreed

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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    If I may ask, is there anything about PokeSpe that you truly like? With all this question, how can you know this series? Do you honestly read it despite your frustrations as though your obligated to? I would've just put it off a long time ago in your shoes.

    I also find it strange how my suspension of disbelief is very willing compared to yours. I mean, I tend to rationalize things and buy into things in fiction better than you. I'm not angry, just amazed at myself.

    I'm not trying to insult you. This is an honest question.
    Yup, I do. There just happen to be a bunch of things I don't like about it, most having to do with missed potential. ....Okay, a lot of things, but eh. Sometimes Kusaka can do very interesting things, sometimes he just doesn't do a good job, and sometimes it makes me wonder just what was he thinking doing those things. I actually found about this series by accident and I still do like RGB despite it's massive flaws and terrible pacing. I like some arcs better than others and some parts of certain arcs better than others. I can see where more time and thought would of made things more amazing.

    Nah, that's the Pokemon games that I'm obligated to. xP I do enjoy reading PokeSpe when it's not rushed through, I just enjoy ragging on it. I do honestly think there are a lot of problems that makes it hard to enjoy sometimes, but I am a writer and a critic, so those things tend to stick more for me than for others. It's not a masterpiece and it's not super great, but it is an enjoyable read and can create very interesting characters and ideas.

    I think Linkara said it best about suspension of disbelief: "Suspension Of Disbelief doesn't throw away all logic. It just allows me to believe that there are people that can run really fast or aliens that can shapeshift living among humans."

    That's how it is with some things in PokeSpe. It allows me to believe pokemon exist and whatnot, but it's not for me to believe a bunch of BS or bad writing. I love fiction very much and can buy many things, so I don't know how you can say you do it better than me. I shouldn't have to throw away all logic to believe certain things just so I can enjoy the story. I can figure out reasons for why Yanagi would do this or that, but I don't pretend that they actually exist in the story. I consider it more in the fanfic territory. I keep flaws and trying to figure out a better way for things to make sense quite separate. It's the writer's job to make us believe those things not us; that's where the suspension of disbelief fails: if we have do it for the writer.
    "You're a true Samurai, being loyal to such a stupid Master." -Seijuro Hiko

  11. #191
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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakarii View Post
    I don't know how you can say you do it better than me.
    Did I say those exact words?

    And I'll admit that Giovanni finding Deoxys to find Silver wouldn't seem so bad if he was also looking to make a profit off the legendary Pokemon FROM SPACE! Like he was planning to capture it with his revived Team Rocket and if they got it, he'd test its abilities by finding Silver.
    Last edited by matt0044; 7th July 2012 at 12:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Did I say those exact words?

    And I'll admit that Giovanni finding Deoxys to find Silver wouldn't seem so bad if he was also looking to make a profit off the legendary Pokemon FROM SPACE! Like he was planning to capture it with his revived Team Rocket and if they got it, he'd test its abilities by finding Silver.
    Is that a rhetorical question?

    That would of been a perfect set-up for Sakaki meeting Akagi, as well. Akagi wanting the pokemon, Sakaki knowing it's abilities and how strong it is... I can just imagine those two meeting and how awesome it would be. Another missed opportunity.
    "You're a true Samurai, being loyal to such a stupid Master." -Seijuro Hiko

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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    [QUOTE=Sakarii;4161492]
    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post

    That would of been a perfect set-up for Sakaki meeting Akagi, as well. Akagi wanting the pokemon, Sakaki knowing it's abilities and how strong it is... I can just imagine those two meeting and how awesome it would be. Another missed opportunity.
    To be fair, FRLG was before DPPt.

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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    You know, if I was Pryce and I wanted to save my Lapras, Kidnapping young children to be my slaves probably, as in, certainly, wouldn't be on my to do list. Fine, you can say Pryce was insane, but then again. Show, don't tell

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    Default Re: Overall honest opinions of Pokemon Adventures/Special

    Quote Originally Posted by Virgo Asmita. View Post
    You know, if I was Pryce and I wanted to save my Lapras, Kidnapping young children to be my slaves probably, as in, certainly, wouldn't be on my to do list. Fine, you can say Pryce was insane, but then again. Show, don't tell
    Well, he clearly needed help to achieve his goal as old men can clearly only do so much even with crazy ice powers. So he got soldiers to do his bidding. The children part is the most questionable for me and that does bear elaboration. Though if you think about it, if you raise kids at an early age the way the MOI wanted, they'd be loyal to you years later thanks to the training you drilled into them. The MOI was probably a Drill Sergeant From Hell so the kids would never disobey him and sheltered them so they'd serve only him with no distractions from the outside world. He would be everything to the kids and nothing else would matter to them. There's more credit to this than you think. He underestimated Green and Silver as they escape to plot against him.

    I mean, a prequel chapter before the RS chapter kicked off would've been well deserved of Pryce.

    Then again, I have read the FRLG arcs yet and that does expand on Blue/Green and Silver's escape and show their parents. Perhaps they have hints...
    Last edited by matt0044; 8th July 2012 at 06:44 PM.
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