Thread: Crystal in the HGSS arc

Wouldn't that then means Lyra is wearing clothes to small for her?

Or that Crystal is older I guess.

It's a bit sad that the recent new girls (Dawn and Lyra) are so fetish-y. Sure, young girls will like the look, but they don't have the same minds that older, more perverted fans do. :/ It's kinda sad that they catered to the sick kind of lolicons (comparing to those who can appreciate the cuteness in an innocent way, as opposed to "lol that's kinda hot" way) AND to the innocent girls who have no idea about the true meaning...

Sigh, or that's just me being disgruntled at Kris's ultra design in PokeSupe. D8 At least it's better than what she was first wearing, in that damn skirt. Kris is NOT a skirt person, dammit!

Crystal in Lyra's outfit... Why am I not surprise? Although I was half-expecting Lyra to appear in the manga, I don't think it's a bad either to stick with 3 Johto Dex holders.

As much as I love Crystal's first out and the lab coat thing, I also find Crystal adorable in Lyra's outfit. I kinda find it weird at first, but now it's pretty fine with me. Crystal's pretty sexy.

This makes me rather sad. I was considering Kris and Lyra different people. -sigh- Oh well

Originally Posted by Ren the Ryoko

This makes me rather sad. I was considering Kris and Lyra different people. -sigh- Oh well

So this makes it game canon (as Kris is the game character, Crys is manga) despite the anime distinguishing between Marina and Lyra and the game keeping completely ambiguous?

Also the Team Rocket executives are separate characters right? I find it funny how Special is doing the opposite of what most Lyra=/=Kris people think because most also hold to the idea that the Rocket executives are the same people (well the more vocal ones anyway, completely contradicting all their earlier Kris/Lyra arguments).

Originally Posted by Somari

That's what I thought. It was pretty obvious. But it looks different..How old is she now? She was like 14 last time we saw her, right?

Crys looks a bit fanservicy in Lyra's already fetish fuel-filled look..Nice.

Anyone find any other scans of her in this arc?

Crys is now 16.

This means red and green(boy) are now 18 and blue(girl) is now 19, so it is no longer pedophilia to think of them in a sexual way. Its just creepy.

I kinda expected this.
But what I didn't expect is that Kris actually looks cute in Kotone's clothes.

And while it is fanservice-y, I didn't notice it until someone pointed it out.

Originally Posted by Outrage

So this makes it game canon (as Kris is the game character, Crys is manga) despite the anime distinguishing between Marina and Lyra and the game keeping completely ambiguous?

Also the Team Rocket executives are separate characters right? I find it funny how Special is doing the opposite of what most Lyra=/=Kris people think because most also hold to the idea that the Rocket executives are the same people (well the more vocal ones anyway, completely contradicting all their earlier Kris/Lyra arguments).

Eh, I think we're all entitled to think we want and either interpretation of the characters is valid.

Anyway, I'm not surprised by Crystal's outfit change (as much as I dislike the clothes themselves). Though she does look a little off-model in that pic; her right (our left) leg looks like it's been squeezed into the sock.

Originally Posted by Outrage

So this makes it game canon (as Kris is the game character, Crys is manga) despite the anime distinguishing between Marina and Lyra and the game keeping completely ambiguous?

Also the Team Rocket executives are separate characters right? I find it funny how Special is doing the opposite of what most Lyra=/=Kris people think because most also hold to the idea that the Rocket executives are the same people (well the more vocal ones anyway, completely contradicting all their earlier Kris/Lyra arguments).

Doesn't matter in the end, but the art director (not Sugimori) pretty much confirmed he designed Lyra and that they're seperate characters.

Crystal's clothes are way too tight, IMO. Not as tight as her old clothes though.

Originally Posted by Raine

Crystal's clothes are way too tight, IMO. Not as tight as her old clothes though.

Yeah, I thought that people were just thinking it looked too tight just to criticize the design, but looking at Lyra's artwork, her shorts aren't that tight. Or short.

Doesn't matter in the end, but the art director (not Sugimori) pretty much confirmed he designed Lyra and that they're seperate characters.

I always thought a bunch of people did the concept designs and Sugimori drew them. The drawing is obviously Sugimori's.

Anyway, doesn't mean that Kris wasn't an inspiration.

Originally Posted by Raine

Doesn't matter in the end, but the art director (not Sugimori) pretty much confirmed he designed Lyra and that they're seperate characters.

The game characters? As in Lyra and Kris are different characters?
..
Link/photograph/video or it isn't true.

Now that I look at Crys, her clothing is shorter then Lyra's, by an inch or so.

Originally Posted by Outrage

I always thought a bunch of people did the concept designs and Sugimori drew them. The drawing is obviously Sugimori's.

Actually, in the past, Sugimori designed the characters himself pre-HGSS. However, in HGSS, he only drew Ethan and Lyra (or not even that), while Takao Unno did the rest.

Anyway, doesn't mean that Kris wasn't an inspiration.

Oh, he's denying it and saying that "the HGSS female character was drawn without taking consciousness of the Crystal girl" or something among those lines. Though I find that very hard to believe since according to UL, he's the same person who said the PokeWalker was not inspired by the Pocket Pikachu devices.

The game characters? As in Lyra and Kris are different characters?
..
Link/photograph/video or it isn't true.

http://pokemon-memo.com/tag/unno-takao/
http://outdoor.geocities.jp/twnfh640/pokemon2.ds.html
(Kudos to UL and Maxim for links.)

Originally Posted by Raine

Actually, in the past, Sugimori designed the characters himself pre-HGSS. However, in HGSS, he only drew Ethan and Lyra (or not even that), while Takao Unno did the rest.

It's the other way around: Takao Unno drew Ethan, Lyra (confirmed in the interview) and the Rocket Executives (revealed in one of the TCG cards), whereas Ken Sugimori did everything else. There might be more exceptions like the rival or any other character that has different facial features.

Though I find that very hard to believe since according to UL, he's the same person who said the PokeWalker was not inspired by the Pocket Pikachu devices.

I found that statement in the same web site that cited Takao Unno's quote, which is why I wanted another source to validate the quote (which Maxim was able to find). However, Takao Unno wouldn't have said that as he had nothing to do with the Pokéwalker, and I suspect that the site author just misinterpreted another source (they didn't provide a quote for that one).

Takao Unno's confirmation is a hollow one as it came from someone who wasn't even working at the company in the Generation II days. I have no doubt now that Kris and Lyra are distinct characters in the game canon, but I don't understand why Kris was not even used as an inspiration (as per the quote) considering that Sugimori supervised Unno's work. I don't really mind it anymore because the opposite-gender character's role (described as the player's crush by one of the music composers) wouldn't have done Kris any favors, but I would have liked to have received Sugimori's input instead.

Originally Posted by mpd

I'd like to entertain intelligent conversation on the matter, and also propose that the two characters have their bulbapedia pages merged into one. (This site is related to that too, right? If there's someplace else that would be better to discuss that matter, maybe you can point me in the right direction, please.) Either way, I suppose that I should see how people respond here first, I'm sure that someone will find something that I didn't come across in my research.

A merge was being discussed here, but Takao Unno's quote has put the discussion to rest. The quote referred to in both articles says "The female protagonist of HeartGold/SoulSilver was designed from scratch, without taking mind of the female protagonist from Crystal." In contrast, the more detailed article also quotes the art director as saying that Ethan was designed with Gold in mind, even though liberties were taken with the clothing. There really isn't much room for interpretation here.

I accept all of your arguments and was one of the fans who challenged the notion that Lyra had to be a new character just because of some differences. Bulbapedia should not have stated it as fact that Lyra replaced Kris without proof from Game Freak, but now we have that proof so I suppose that worse decisions could have been made.