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Thread: Would the show's quality improve if old characters were brought back?

  1. #76
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    Default Re: Would the show's quality improve if old characters were brought back?

    I'm trying out the Anime forum for the first time.
    I come from the planet X&Y and Fun&Games.

    The quality would not improve. If anything, it would make some people complain about how their precious older characters are being abused and changed to fit the new style.

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    Default Re: Would the show's quality improve if old characters were brought back?

    If the writers would bother to do them justice, it would improve the show's quality. If they won't, then it will not improve the show's quality.

    I'm mixed, because I'm scared of the current writers, based on their poor handling of Ash and Team Rocket (especially Team Rocket for me).

    I'd completely convert to the subbed version of the anime, though. From what I've seen in BW116, I would not like things at all. As it stands, I'm only able to tolerate Ash, Jessie, and James' current voice actors in the English dub, mainly because they are the only ones I can even detect a trace of the original English voice is present. I find Meowth, Delia, and Professor Oak unbearable now to listen to as is.
    Last edited by Pokémon Master Ash; 23rd June 2013 at 07:39 AM.

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    Default Re: Would the show's quality improve if old characters were brought back?

    With moderator blessing i decided to revive this thread(special thanks to garrison-san) .

    Since we entered new year and there doesn't exist adequate thread currently to talk about this topic and in what way return of older characters could help improve pokemon series story and overall quality. And as such if in your opinions would it be practical and lucrative move worth investment and writers time in Ash older companions playing prominent, fresh and interesting role in pokemon series again through sequels?

    In other words i decided to restore this thread so that people which never had chance to share their own thoughts about this subject give their input, but also for those who already post to have chance to complement and add on what they said if they feel how something was left out and should be said.

    So ill be first one to break ice and give more of my own reasoning and why i believe return of older companions may be viable and beneficial move for pokemon plot, reputation and overeal appeal.

    To start things of;
    While i do enjoy in new characters and storylines they bring, if there is one reason why im advocating for older characters return lies in potential increasing of anime quality strengthening its storyline and making it treated as more plot based, filled with continuity and natural progression tale.

    For good storyline, consistent development and strong following answer doesn't always lie in constantly cycling through characters bringing new faces, but in actually making good use of those which were already established, creating strong following around themselves and proving to have predispositions and charm to be quickly accepted and liked among audience.

    Because at least to me it really does feel like show has stuck in overused, predictable rut with almost no continuity, very little connection to past and previous companions which left impact on series and protagonist treating them like trash, along with lack of progress done regarding main protagonist not being exactly most optimal way to keep someone interested and excited for certain show.

    Granted having someone revived from past doing continuation of started job be it May, Brock, Misty, Dawn, Cilan etc probably wouldn't all of sudden improve quality of story and add more substance on its own.

    However through return of previous companion advancing current storyline, while getting some growth themselves you can actually fill series with more continuity and connections to past setting up groundwork on which you can set up pre requisites to create long lasting impact on audience, create loyalty among viewers and ensure stable ratings in longer run. Which would indeed be step forward toward more engaging and thrilling to follow show.

    Additionally because of actual established groundwork created about previous characters allows to see him/her developed to more significant degree gaining more depth and mystery, allows to see their backstories and personalities be explored to deeper level along with characters, their pokemon and plots which form story being taken to new directions being treated as continuation.
    Expand on their current role by giving them new interests and quirks giving to fans something they didn't knew about him until now etc.

    As well better decant on screen idea of adventure and friendship which has predispositions to grow forward since Ash and previous characters already passed point of meeting being familiar with themselves enough to experience growth of their relationship, invigorate relationship by taking turn on past through flashback and memories allowing for more fresh, endearing dynamic, with more continuity filled storyline allowing to transfer it to multiple regions building up on it. By meeting up with good friend and being in company if route they are heading takes them in same direction to catch up on missed time, build on friendship and have them push story forward thx to their presence and connections their dreams might have with current plot bringing twist to story.

    I think pokemon writers would have ultimately more success in maintaining popularity if they didn't at expense of new companions completely forget about previous ones treating them like crap who never mattered ending with bunch of unfinished, underdeveloped still fun characters which could offer more.
    To have writers at least keep them alive in some form coming back occasionally for mini arcs or through recurring role like they did with N or now Alexa to show of how much they improved, tie up loose ends, explore on interaction with new coimpanions and help move stiry forward whilre finding way through which they could gain something from it as far as their career goes.
    increasing credibility and quality of series itself making people respect writers work and effort they put in when writing for anime and its characters.
    Establish some balance in there.

    To give us insight in May and Dawn adventures, how much they improved in meantime and what new pokenon they obntrained. What happened with rivals, May contest quest in Johto(in know many wished to see that) and where their development and changes they experidnced leaded them in end displaying fruits pogf progrsss on screen and provide way ford viewers to enjoy in their various antics, furtheringh of their own story and sense of characters not being forgotten growing forward.

    Expand on Misty story providing new info on new pokemon she obtained, development she went through in meantime and further her story which had foundation to be take in so many different ways(E4 position, entering water tournaments, meeting water experts like E4 Siebald you name it), while setting base to develop relationshoip with new characters making atmosphere more lively through her strong and passionate personality having many interesting sides and expressive, fiery nature mixed with mature, confident approach.

    Infiltrate Brock and Cilan into new stories and adventures getting chance to shine and amuse us with their antics and moments of silliness , have them influence plot through their own knowledge and expertize they posess in various fields(pokedoctor surely can come in handy while foing field research).

    In general paying respect to those which helped build pokemon plot and popularity bringing us lot of joy, humor and intriguing monents with their various antics, fluid personalities and unique dreams they pursued instead of ignoring them like they never exiusted, left impact on Ash life and anime in general.

    That character growth, experiences and lessons learned before leads him somewhere in end bringing him closer toward achievement of its dreams and enjoy in sense iof progression of being builded more as person and trainer.

    Which sets up groundwork for more concentrated and cohesive story and stable cast.
    That's why i believe how with certain innovations i mentioned straying away abit from current predictable formula anime follows for decade, writers could ultimately have more success managing to maintain interest from target audience while also broadening interest for anime among wider group of fans through such changes going beyond current demographic. Since unpredictable ad fresh surprises are in general key to maintain interest among viewers and achieve popularity that can last for many more years to come.

    Most anime out there keep same characters for years and they re still more fresh and interesting than pokemon. Why? Because of story and creative writing, with presence of established cast allowing to form structured, continuity based show. Bringing them when their story could benefit from current plot anime follows(whether its some villain organization like Team Plasma, big events like world tournament spread across the region or something else), along with being possible to fit them in story of new characters to help advance their current storyline and growth.

    With people as reesult appreciating writers work and remain grateful much, much more adding to entertainment and excitement of anime plot lifting up atmosphere, character dynamic and strength of storytelling.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 5th January 2014 at 11:21 AM.

  4. #79
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    Default Re: Would the show's quality improve if old characters were brought back?

    If no one ever left then Pokemon would be a harem anime.

    And i doubt anyone would really want almost 20 years of only ash, misty, and brock especially since no one ever reaches their goals in the show.

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    Default Re: Would the show's quality improve if old characters were brought back?

    Maybe. I actually think it would be interesting to see Max return as a trainer with that ralts he saved.
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    Default Re: Would the show's quality improve if old characters were brought back?

    Although I agree the use of old characters in new ways helps to estabilish a sense of world building and continuity the fans should have in mind you can only live out of the same characters for a certain time, even if you keep reworking them. Creating new characters is necessary because it is just a matter of time until people get bored of the same faces and demand diversity.
    Of course, I would be more tolerant on Misty and Brock if the writers actually bothered to make use of their characters. Actually, I would be delightful, but it wouldn't last forever.
    Pokémon is a cash cow anime with indefinite length, as long as the games sell there will be new regions. I can barely tolerate Ash and Team Rocket, imagine if the entire original cast were still there after over 17 years. That "going nowhere" atmosphere would be extended to everyone and I don't know if I could stand such a thing. In a franchise like Pokémon changes and rotations in the cast are necessary, but I would be way more satisfied to see the characters actually developed before they have to go.

    Of course, it doesn't change the fact you can always bring them back once in a while, they don't need to be semi-permanent members of the main cast to still be in the show. A nice idea is to bring someone back and make he or she have a key role in a future arc or something like that.
    But I have to add, in order to make a successful comeback the writers must firstly have in mind an actual idea on what to do with said character. Bringing someone back just for the sake of it or only because of fan demand is terrible if you don't have a clue on how to insert the character in the story. Such a thing would be just eye candy fanservice with no actual value behind it, in these cases my opinion would be a "no".

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    Default Re: Would the show's quality improve if old characters were brought back?

    To answer this thread properly, I need to answer how to keep the show interesting as a whole.


    Firstly, the central core of Pokemon's plot is inescapably progressive because its a journey. Therefore it is certain that fans will expect changes but also continuity, both of which must be preserved equally. The one thing that is certain there is no sign of ending the traveling to new regions, meeting new characters, and catching new Pokemon unless they stop being created altogether. Adventuring in the Pokemon world is what it is. Handling them is another. There needs to be more memorable experiences, special adventures to wondrous places and witnessing of unique human and Pokemon phenomena. This is often a high point of most every saga. There must always be an expectation that something exciting is just around the corner, even if the main story is the same as always.


    Secondly, you can replace a character and lose continuity, or you can replace nobody and not get change. There are also varying levels of connection between characters, some are close friends, some are ok friends, some are simply acquainted. As friendship is the other central theme of Pokemon, these variations must also be preserved. The better they distribute varieties of relationships among the characters, the stronger their value and contribution to the show. We seek character changes because we seek relationship variety. We seek different perspectives and personalities and the exciting ways they meet. What if they...
    Changed the Pokemon and keep the humans one season, then vice versa the next?

    Had multiple traveling groups meet occasionally, comprised of varying relationships to each other and Ash?

    Had every episode feature not only a new Pokemon and its development, but development for a main Pokemon and its trainer as well?

    Created believable characters; ones who retain core lessons but need to relearn and be reminded of tougher ones, just as we in real life all forget things and need reminding. For example, why do people want Ash gone? For many, because his core retention is too narrow, because he's not believable and therefore, not interesting?

    Or even to the extreme, used their vast wealth to run multiple anime series' simultaneously?

    These are just a few ideas that could vastly improve Pokemon's quality by giving viewers the variety they expect.



    In summary, repetition in some ways is inevitable, change in other ways is to be expected, and continuity must be preserved. The act of bringing back this and that, introducing so and so does not improve the show. Its when its done in order for Pokemon to use all its core elements to their fullest potential. For this reason, in my eyes old characters do not only improve the show, they are necessary to creating and maintaining a standard of quality.
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    Default Re: Would the show's quality improve if old characters were brought back?

    it wouldn't improve if older characters were brought back necessarily, but it would benefit from not bringing new characters in so often - assuming the writing quality is good. The writing quality's effect on the show precedes the effect of any character, because a character can be written badly (DP Brock). They should vary it up more, not change the girl/possibly guy every season as they're doing now. Let Ash win a league and mentor someone else, maybe bring back an old character if it was relevant, like I always wanted to see Ash mentor Max when he grew old enough, but I guess time doesn't exist.

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    Default Re: Would the show's quality improve if old characters were brought back?

    Brock always improves the series. The other characters, not so much.

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    Default Re: Would the show's quality improve if old characters were brought back?

    Quote Originally Posted by Magma Bomb View Post
    Although I agree the use of old characters in new ways helps to estabilish a sense of world building and continuity the fans should have in mind you can only live out of the same characters for a certain time, even if you keep reworking them. Creating new characters is necessary because it is just a matter of time until people get bored of the same faces and demand diversity.
    Of course, I would be more tolerant on Misty and Brock if the writers actually bothered to make use of their characters. Actually, I would be delightful, but it wouldn't last forever.
    Pokémon is a cash cow anime with indefinite length, as long as the games sell there will be new regions. I can barely tolerate Ash and Team Rocket, imagine if the entire original cast were still there after over 17 years. That "going nowhere" atmosphere would be extended to everyone and I don't know if I could stand such a thing. In a franchise like Pokémon changes and rotations in the cast are necessary, but I would be way more satisfied to see the characters actually developed before they have to go.

    Of course, it doesn't change the fact you can always bring them back once in a while, they don't need to be semi-permanent members of the main cast to still be in the show. A nice idea is to bring someone back and make he or she have a key role in a future arc or something like that.
    But I have to add, in order to make a successful comeback the writers must firstly have in mind an actual idea on what to do with said character. Bringing someone back just for the sake of it or only because of fan demand is terrible if you don't have a clue on how to insert the character in the story. Such a thing would be just eye candy fanservice with no actual value behind it, in these cases my opinion would be a "no".
    To be fair this thread isn't advocating for original cast being kept until nowadays, but in questioning would return of replaced companions and in what way after long period of time improve series plot and overall quality. So arguably issue of long stay like its case with Ash wouldn't even be option in that case.

    Although i do agree how sometime change is needed(though not always) in long on going show like pokemon series are to provide diversity and some new direction through which things would be taken, constant cast replacing pulls with itself exact same problem you would try avoiding by changing protagonists. Since in excessive doses such formula becomes just as repetitive, overused and predictable with nothing new to look forward to or be excited about. Following same old generic pattern leaving us with bunch of unfinished, never living to their full potential characters discouraging people from growing attached to them eroding continuity and impact they left on anime pretending like they never existed or had their own open plots and material to build upon contributing in anime losing on its identity and consistent on going story.

    Which reflects negatively on Ash storyline due to no familiar face and established friendship, story between him and companion which transfers to next region which could create environment for more cohesive storytelling regarding protagonist in question getting carried over multiple regions through stability and continuity stable group allows .

    While hindering creativity because writers aren't forced to innovate , make fresh directions through which pokemon series could become continuity based show which gradually develops characters since every individual they bring in anime leaves before he would even have chance for more meaningful growth.

    Which is why im of belief how revival of popular fan favorites(especially very long absent ones like Misty, May or Max) for reasonable periods of time(like one season or even whole saga) would set up fopundation for development of characters and pokemon coming of in more believable way, making anime more continuity based filled with stable cast and solid story. Opening door toward more unique characterization and characters which stand out on their own going through more substantial growth, explore on different facets of personality, learn new things and develop forward in more complex way experiencing build up on his/her story by doing continuation of what has been established before.

    Serving as injection to shake things up, bring unexpected twist to cast dynamic and overall plot being fresh and unpredictable gesture from writers side for a change. In sense of meeting up with Ash at some point traveling in company for awhile in same direction he is heading while showcasing newly acquired skills, forming new relationships and going on bigger, more challenging steps advancing career.

    As loing its done in reasonable doses finding happy and balanced medium between addition of new companions and finding way through which previous ones could remain alive, promonent in some way receiving build up and way to infliuence new plots through their expertise, newly learned things and dreams in case they are compatible and allows to be infiltrated within main story.
    Last edited by pokemon fan 132; 9th January 2014 at 06:00 AM.

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    Default Re: Would the show's quality improve if old characters were brought back?

    The return of old characters is not necessarily going to be indicative of an increase of quality. While I would like to see Shinji and Reiji return--mostly to see Reiji challenge Jindai again and return to journeying--the series ought to be able to become better without leaning on previous characters. The games are constantly improving themselves through the introduction of new concepts and characters, the cartoon ought to, too.

    That being said, I'd like to see Satoshi bring in Lizardon with a Mega Evolution to fight Hiroshi with his own Mega Lizardon. A few episodes with Hiroshi would be a neat idea.

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    Default Re: Would the show's quality improve if old characters were brought back?

    Not at all. The anime would still have the same crappy writers and crappy dialogue, as well as being completely unprogressive story-wise with precious little character development and many of the same episode themes being reused again and again. Adding a character and claiming its "Misty" or "Brock" or whoever else would make no difference as the current writers wouldn't use them or develop them properly, aside from satisfying the nostalgic fans for a short time.

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    Default Re: Would the show's quality improve if old characters were brought back?

    It would probably have a largely negative effect, as it would be seen as a futile attempt to pander to older fans. The character's mere existence isn't what made the original show great, it was how they were written and the roles they played. In my opinion, characters like Misty, Brock, Tracey, and others have already fulfilled their purpose. There's really no need to bring them back. It would just be pointless fan service.
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    Default Re: Would the show's quality improve if old characters were brought back?

    Even if characters like Misty, Brock, May, Max, or Dawn returned, its not gonna make things any better if the writers don't use them in the right way. They could be around for a whole saga and if the writers neglect Dawn like they did in her Best Wishes 2 appearances, its not gonna make much of a difference. If they spend time trying to recreate group dynamics in the right way and make older characters actually do stuff and not stick to the background, then it would.
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    Default Re: Would the show's quality improve if old characters were brought back?

    In the case of needing better development plans, I would say that it would be easier for the writers to improve using characters they are already well familiar with and then move on to more complex dynamics involving both old and new. They need a game plan, and I know I need to be careful what I wish for, but I'm willing to watch them take a risk with fan favorites more than anything. If and when they do however, my hope is we won't be too judgmental and start looking for ways in which they screw up to "prove" it didn't work. I kind of feel like that happened with Dawn in some areas.
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