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  1. #31
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    Default Re: The Worst League Loss For Ash?

    I didn't really mind the Unova loss. As foolish as Cameron is, he is also a pretty good trainer and has raised his pokemon well. Definitely not the best person for Ash to lose against, but he's not as bad as people make out. My least favourite was against Ritchie. Squirtle simply got knocked out by a sleep powder and Charizard didn't even try to fight. So basically Pikachu was the only pokemon of Ash's to properly fight. Bit of a middle finger imo.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: The Worst League Loss For Ash?

    Unova for me is by far the worst league, with the way it was written, it might well have just been another Don Tournament. Ash's loss in the Indigo League may have been frustrating but at least it was believable because had he not goofed off beforehand and actually put any effort into trying to gain Charizard's trust then I think he could have got a better result, probably not the champion, possibly top eight but Ash was still a rookie back then.

    I will admit that not every league up to now has been 100% perfect, each has had its own share of problems mainly because of the structuring and pacing and those are the main bugs with the series in general. I don't have a problem with Johto and Hoenn. In Johto Ash mainly relied on his older reserves because his Johto Pokémon have had very little development and the only Pokémon that evolved in that saga was Bayleef (not counting Noctowl because it was caught in its final stage).

    In Hoenn, Ash only used his Hoenn team which had better development than his Johto Team and what I liked about Hoenn is that all his team had a good battle and I liked the overall league structure, an improvement over Johto. As far as Ash getting to the Top 8 again, I'm not that fussed because Hoenn gave me the impression that Ash was progressing forward slowly, being May's mentor has to get an honourable mention.

    Now for Sinnoh, I did initially feel that Ash's loss felt rushed and cheap because the writers wanted to rush their way to B&W as if it was within their contract but Sinnoh's main problem was the length of the Saga. To be honest I felt that Ash could have been the Champion because there were numerous mentions of the Champion League and it seemed that Ash was maturing further, even when he decided to use his "Oaked" reserves, It felt like he could make it to the finals.

    Just a shame that the writers forgot about Bulbasaur, Squirtle and Charizard, though to be honest I was under the impression that they would save the best for last but in the end they just mainly used a Hoenn based team plus Heracross and Gible.

    All things considered, I now find that losing to the "Action Replay User" Tobias, much more noble than losing to an idiot who forgot to bring a sixth Pokémon. B&W has not even had a full 6 on 6, not counting Riolu evolving. I doubt that the saga will show us one now. This was an incredibly pathetic way to end the league on the writers part just for sake of getting to N & Team Plasma.

    Do I have any high expectations for the Kalos League? No. I'm hoping that the writers buck their ideas up for X & Y and with "Old Pokémon" being part of the Regional Pokedex this time and should Ash be going they need to show some maturity with him this time and if they plan on Ash use any "Oaked Reserves" at any point of the saga, they better have a good reason for their return, the League is at this point the only plausible reason.
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  3. #33
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    Default Re: The Worst League Loss For Ash?

    Toss up between Kanto and Unova, but Im gonna go with Unova.

    Kanto. Ash was inexperienced and Ill prepared. Using Charizard when he knew it wasn't listening to him was very stupid, and his whole loss to Ritchie was pretty humiliating for Ash in general.

    Johto. Harrison loss was much better. Ash was much more experienced by now and it showed. I was a little annoyed about Charizard losing to Blaziken, since Charizard had the advantage and had just come off beating half of Gary's team. But Harrison was clearly a good trainer so it was ok. Plus Blaziken was so badly injured after that he couldn't compete in Harrison's next match.

    Hoenn. This loss was fine. Tyson was a very good trainer (he went on to win). His team was clearly more powerful than Ash's, and Ash's team was pretty good. Losing to a Meowth was odd but still, It was all quite believable.

    Sinnoh. I found this loss fine. Sure, I was annoyed by the way they chose to end the league. Obviously the writers needed Ash out of it quickly, but I would have preferred Ash beat more of Tobias's pokemon. But at the same time, Ash managed to beat 2 legendaries when no one else could even beat one. And If Tobias wasn't in the league, I have full confidence that Ash could have won the whole thing.

    Unova. No, No, No. This was the worst league ever. Everything was wrong. The whole match was terrible. Ash's team choice, his battle strategy's, or lack of. His opponent was a complete moron, who only bought 5 pokemon, threw 2 of them under the bus, and only won thanks to Riolu evolving (and even that shouldn't have saved him). Unova beats Kanto for worst league loss because back then Ash was inexperienced, this time he was not. This loss was just unforgivable. And no, Cameron was not a good trainer, he was terrible. And he only managed to beat half of Virgil's team.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: The Worst League Loss For Ash?

    After doing my reviewing, I will have to say Kanto is still the worse for me. I don't care if it was Ash's first league or not. Charizard was still a dick and that always left a sour taste in my mouth. At least the battle itself with Lucario and Pikachu was better than watching Charizard sleep in the battle field or watching Ritchie using the same kind of pokemon Ash used to get that far in the league.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: The Worst League Loss For Ash?

    This is a really hard question for me. I haven't liked any of his losses other than against Harrison.

    I've always hated his Indigo loss because he didn't really lose, just disqualified. What a way to go after making it so far.

    His battle against Tyson was good, but I have trouble accepting how evenly matched Meowth and Pikachu were. Unless it was on a drastically higher level, Meowth's Thunderbolt should have been weaker than Pikachu's and so he really shouldn't have been able to cancel out his attacks so easily. It didn't help that they were both collapsing, but Pikachu just happened to fall first. It felt more like a tie than a loss, but they had to call a winner.

    I gotta say that Ash put up a good fight against Tobias, but just the fact that they let that guy into the conference is amazing. It just felt very unfair. I'm not really sure why they took that route instead of allowing Ash a better fight. It seems like lazy writing to me.

    I honestly didn't bother watching the finale between Ash and Cameron because I heard what happened before hand. Cameron was one of the most irritating, undeserving characters they've ever had in the show. I would have preferred Ash lose to Virgil since he actually seemed good at what he does. That whole conference was just bad, imo.

    So the worst loss? I think I'd have to go with the Indigo League. I can't get over the sense of disappointment I felt after watching it the first time.

  6. #36

    Default Re: The Worst League Loss For Ash?

    To be fair all of Ash's league losses have been contrived, except for maybe Harrisson. Its rather obvious Ash loses each league for the sake of the writers repetitive formula than if he can't really beat the opponent.

    For example Tyson's Meowth almost did lose if he felt down a second before Pikachu did. And even if Tobias used all legendaries, Ash still didn't take his very best Pokemon into that fight either.

  7. #37

    Default Re: The Worst League Loss For Ash?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    And even if Tobias used all legendaries, Ash still didn't take his very best Pokemon into that fight either.
    Not that I dislike the whole Ash x Tobias, but I kind of disliked part of his chooses. Sceptile, Heracross, Pikachu and Swellow was ok, but why didn't he used Snorlax instead of Gible, for example? Ash could have called Charizard right at the start to take Torkoal's place as well. But well, so did Paul. He could have used Ursaring, Torterra and whatnot instead of Ninjask, Frosslass, etc.

    Anyway, the Unova League is by far the worst one. Aside from the Ash x Stephan match, I don't even want to rewatch it.


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  8. #38

    Default Re: The Worst League Loss For Ash?

    I think Kanto was good written, it was Ash's own fault that he lost because he spent no time at all trying to gain Charizard's trust. He would've gotten further if he did, but it was his first league so I didn't mind him losing at all. Unova was definitely the worst league loss for Ash, he lost to a knucklehead who knew nothing about anything at all. He was not a good trainer, and the fact that Riou evolved shouldn't have made up for the mistakes he did. He made Ash look like a fool, and it also looked like he was really inexperienced. I really thought he could actually win this one, but then suddenly a kid with zero IQ beat him. If he couldn't win, he could've atleast lose in a different way, against a different trainer.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: The Worst League Loss For Ash?

    Quote Originally Posted by nikkedokko View Post
    I think Kanto was good written, it was Ash's own fault that he lost because he spent no time at all trying to gain Charizard's trust. He would've gotten further if he did, but it was his first league so I didn't mind him losing at all. Unova was definitely the worst league loss for Ash, he lost to a knucklehead who knew nothing about anything at all. He was not a good trainer, and the fact that Riou evolved shouldn't have made up for the mistakes he did. He made Ash look like a fool, and it also looked like he was really inexperienced. I really thought he could actually win this one, but then suddenly a kid with zero IQ beat him. If he couldn't win, he could've atleast lose in a different way, against a different trainer.
    I don't know if I'd say his lost in the Indigo League was well written. It was appropriate for him to lose due to not working on training Charizard, but if he didn't spend all of that time and energy getting away from Team Rocket, he probably could have defeated Ritchie. I doubt that he would have lasted past another round, especially in a full battle, but getting to the Top 16 in his first League was fine. Ash's defeat to Cameron, on the other hand, made both of them look pretty bad. Cameron was a complete idiot and only won because of his Riolu evolving into Lucario, which I'll admit was one of the few parts to that battle that I actually liked, but Ash's choices were really bad too, so I didn't feel bad for him losing there. I would have preferred if the trainer he lost to was actually good, but he was either going to lose to Cameron or Virgil and I'd rather see Ash get beaten by a Lucario than by an Eevee, despite Cameron being annoying. Though, Cameron being only able to defeat half of Virgil's team really added more sting into Ash's defeat, especially when Virgil didn't even seem to be that excited for winning the League later and just saw it as a means to help with his rescue team.

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    Default Re: The Worst League Loss For Ash?

    I can never forgive the loss to Cameron. Coming off of the last league, this one was just insulting. There is NO WAY DP Ash would have lost to this noob. It wouldn't even have been close. I'd just be repeating what has already been said if I went into detail, but this was the worst way Ash could have lost the Unova League. He looked like a fool...losing to a fool.

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    Default Re: The Worst League Loss For Ash?

    I liked how Ash got defeated from the Shinnoh league. It proved that he was strong. And Tobias was a cool guy. In Unova Cameron defeated Ash because he was the dumber of the two. It was a competition in dumbness. At least it feels like that.
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  12. #42
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    Default Re: The Worst League Loss For Ash?

    It is hard to really say...

    Don't get me wrong I think I can speak for everyone on this site that we were all pissed to see Ash lose to some idiot using only 5 Pokemon, but each league he lost was "hurtful" for us fans in some form or another if not for us for Ash as well

    Kanto; Alright, so Ash lost thanks in part to Team Rocket for kidnapping him preventing him (if he was going to) form going to the Pokemon Center to swap or rotate some Pokemon for his battle considering the day before Brock looked up the 3 Pokemon Richie was going to use (Pikachu, Charmander and Butterfree). My guess is he would use Squirtle against Charmander, Pikachu/Pidgeotto against Butterfree and Pikachu vs. Pikachu. This is just a guess though but I'm basing it on the fact that ALL of those Pokemon were worn out from Team Rocket's scheme. Squirtle literally filled up the back of a huge truck with Water Gun so Ash could escape (he looked in good condition when called into battle Butterfree though), his custom TR balloon popper was worn out from flying Ash from some disclosed location all the way to the arena and passed out from exhaustion and Pikachu was tired from zapping TR a few times already (it was Kanto so it wasn't usual for Pikachu to use several electric attacks at once without getting winded). However, Ash is to blame in part for not training Charizard properly, he had ample time before the league to train all his Pokemon to be in tip-top shape but he kept getting himself sidetracked even when he was attempting to train.

    What made this loss "bad" is that Ash not only lost due to a disobedient Pokemon but it was on national television (even that guy from Johto with the Scizor who battled based on his computer info know about that league) that had to be absolutely embarrassing. The people in the stadium were pissed going on about how they came to see a fight and honestly they could have been saying worse but hey its a kid's show what can you do? Honestly, you really can't blame them (it wasn't entirely Ash's fault that he was late) the battle was postponed for quite sometime before Ash arrived so you can only imagine how the people felt waiting so long only for the climatic finish of the battle (come on a Charizard hit the field who wouldn't be excited?!?!) only for it to take a nap. Something tells me that it did not do anything good for Ash's reputation afterwards...

    Johto; This battle proved that Ash needs to switch his Pokemon during battle instead of keeping them in until they fall. Totodile and Pikachu won against Kecleon and Sneasal but he didn't call them back. Totodile would have proved useful against Houndoom (Bayleef won but still). Overall, it Charizard knew Wing Attack it would have won. If you ask me that Blaze Kick is what gave Blaziken the upper hand or in this case upper foot. I think that despite not being very effective, it landed a critical hit giving Charizard a heavier drop in HPs than its other moves. Let's be real Quick Attack isn't that powerful, its fast but not enough to do a lot of damage, Fire Punch isn't very effective and if I remember Blaziken didn't land any Flamethrowers on Charizard that just collided attacks. But yeah, I wouldn't say it was a BAD loss but it could have been avoided if Ash had chosen his match-ups during the battle better.

    Hoenn; What made this league kind of dull (honestly this is one of my favorite if not my favorite league where I can't help but watch EVERY episode from the league if I go back to look at my DVDs) is that Ash used the SAME 6 Pokemon the ENTIRE league. Honestly, that should have given him a huge disadvantage being that his opponents (if they studied his matches) could prepare accordingly especially in the full battle rounds to counter his Pokemon types and attacks. Now on to Tyson's battle: like Harrison it was a matter of Ash choosing bad match ups. Glalie vs. Sceptile wasn't a bad choice but I think he should have went with Torkoal or Swellow instead but that's just me. Why he chose to use Corphish against a Hariyama I don't know (but it was probably because that same match up happened in the 2nd gym but this was different) the same with Torkoal too bad he didn't know about Thick Fat (unless Brock would have screamed it out louder for Ash to hear). Swellow against Donphan? Cool but unbelievable after multiple Rollouts only for Swellow to toss it with its talons. Moving on to Meowth in Boots...

    What made it bad was that Pikachu's Thunder was countered by Thunderbolt. I mean I'll let the Thunderbolt vs. Thunderbolt from Meowth and Pikachu being even slide, but for it to be equal to Thunder is completely unbelievable! And if you ask me the ONLY reason Meowth was able to stand longer was because it had those boots to support its legs. I really wanted to see Grovyle vs. Meowth since both his "blade" attacks; Slash for Meowth and Leaf Blade for Grovyle.

    Both are badass in their own right when compared to the rest of their trainer's team. Meowth looks like a cowboy while Grovyle with the twig in its mouth looks like a gangster or something. Slash vs. Leaf Blade, Bullet Seed vs. Double Team, Pound vs. Iron Tail and Quick Attack vs. Thunderbolt (those are just possible attack collisions that could take place like how for Pikachu; Quick Attack was countered with Slash, Thunder/Thunderbolt with Thunderbolt and Iron Tail with Iron Tail). But I think the only reason that happened was because Grovyle won against Katie's Walrein giving Ash the win.

    Sinnoh; 2 things made this bad-Ash was up against a team of 6 LEGENDARY POKEMON (Potentially if Tobias had all legends on his team, if so I wonder what his starter was...) and Ash had to choose one of the worst 6 Pokemon of his career to face off against them. Gible seriously? Heck, even if it was a Gabite I wouldn't be upset over him choosing it to battle. He had the right idea with Heracross (if the anime allowed items like Choice Scarf then he could have raped Darkrai AND Latios with Megahorn), Torkoal wasn't his best option, Gible seriously? Swellow, Pikachu and Sceptile were great choices given their past track records in battle. Overall, it was the writer's call of ending the battle in one episode like that to move on to BW (which from what we've seen was a bad call overall).

    Unova; Just awful, Ash was the one that got Cameron to sign in on time and this is how his kindness is repaid. Ash should have won but also AGAIN used his Pokemon better by switching them out during the match like Pignite vs. Samorutt, Oshawott vs. a fully evolved pseduo-Dragon? It was extremely bad writing on the creator's part for the way that entire match went down. I think the WORST part was Riolu destroying Unfezant with impossible feats of dodging methods against moves like Gust. Ash using all of those Quick Attacks against Lucario was extremely stupid because it just wore Pikachu out. That final collision another perfect example of why Volt Tackle should not have been written off of Pikachu's move list. I could go on but everyone else pretty much summed up why this battle was terrible.

    Now after going through the losses which one do I think was the worst? Well to me losing a league doesn't say much about Ash at all. To me the league is the culmination of Ash's entire journey through a region; the gym battles, trainer battles, training, Pokemon catches, interaction with other people/trainers/Pokemon, etc.

    If you ask me Sinnoh was possibly his BEST. Why do I say that? To sum it up with some of his best victories was defeating Volkner a feat no other trainer has done since he took the role of gym leader, defeated his toughest rival ever (Paul) and defeated the unbeatable Darkrai (the only Pokemon Tobias used to win his 8 badges and throughout the entire Sinnoh League before facing Ash) and also making Tobias use a 2nd Pokemon for the first time during the league defeating it as well (even though his last Pokemon, Pikachu fell it still counted). And the fact Tobias only used Darkrai in the finally match to win the league. That could possibly mean that Ash was the BEST trainer in the league and in Sinnoh (aside from Tobias...). That depends on whether or not you consider him having a DBZ-powered ape on his team a fair advantage...

    I think what made his loss painful there was the buildup of him battling the E4 and Cynthia given that he never fought Cynthia, Flint seemed to have complete faith in Ash's skills to win (do his best if he believed he won anyway), Lucian was the BEST example of why Ash was going to win with the foreshadowing of only battling Ash AFTER beating the league and being able to fight the E4, Bertha giving him advice not only battling him but about the power of observation and Paul to me was there for Ash to show his way of training worked with Infernape unlocking/controlling Blaze and the whole thing with Brandon was a reason for Paul NOT to win the league because his ultimate battle was to conquer the Battle Pyramid his brother lost to. Then for all of that to be thrown away for the Unova Saga is just painful to watch...

    If I had to pick the worst it would be between either Kanto OR Unova. I think what made Unova painful wasn't just losing to Cameron but the fact that he regressed from his previous league and that entire region for him has just been a horrible ride from start to finish. Kanto was his first region and league but the fact that he had Charizard for so long since he got it as a Charmander he should have raised it better the same with his unevolved Unova Pokemon. But by Unova, he should have known how to train and raise his Pokemon better given all his other previous experiences.

    So, my vote goes to Unova.

  13. #43

    Default Re: The Worst League Loss For Ash?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paulisthebest View Post
    It is hard to really say...

    Don't get me wrong I think I can speak for everyone on this site that we were all pissed to see Ash lose to some idiot using only 5 Pokemon, but each league he lost was "hurtful" for us fans in some form or another if not for us for Ash as well

    Kanto; Alright, so Ash lost thanks in part to Team Rocket for kidnapping him preventing him (if he was going to) form going to the Pokemon Center to swap or rotate some Pokemon for his battle considering the day before Brock looked up the 3 Pokemon Richie was going to use (Pikachu, Charmander and Butterfree). My guess is he would use Squirtle against Charmander, Pikachu/Pidgeotto against Butterfree and Pikachu vs. Pikachu. This is just a guess though but I'm basing it on the fact that ALL of those Pokemon were worn out from Team Rocket's scheme. Squirtle literally filled up the back of a huge truck with Water Gun so Ash could escape (he looked in good condition when called into battle Butterfree though), his custom TR balloon popper was worn out from flying Ash from some disclosed location all the way to the arena and passed out from exhaustion and Pikachu was tired from zapping TR a few times already (it was Kanto so it wasn't usual for Pikachu to use several electric attacks at once without getting winded). However, Ash is to blame in part for not training Charizard properly, he had ample time before the league to train all his Pokemon to be in tip-top shape but he kept getting himself sidetracked even when he was attempting to train.

    What made this loss "bad" is that Ash not only lost due to a disobedient Pokemon but it was on national television (even that guy from Johto with the Scizor who battled based on his computer info know about that league) that had to be absolutely embarrassing. The people in the stadium were pissed going on about how they came to see a fight and honestly they could have been saying worse but hey its a kid's show what can you do? Honestly, you really can't blame them (it wasn't entirely Ash's fault that he was late) the battle was postponed for quite sometime before Ash arrived so you can only imagine how the people felt waiting so long only for the climatic finish of the battle (come on a Charizard hit the field who wouldn't be excited?!?!) only for it to take a nap. Something tells me that it did not do anything good for Ash's reputation afterwards...

    Johto; This battle proved that Ash needs to switch his Pokemon during battle instead of keeping them in until they fall. Totodile and Pikachu won against Kecleon and Sneasal but he didn't call them back. Totodile would have proved useful against Houndoom (Bayleef won but still). Overall, it Charizard knew Wing Attack it would have won. If you ask me that Blaze Kick is what gave Blaziken the upper hand or in this case upper foot. I think that despite not being very effective, it landed a critical hit giving Charizard a heavier drop in HPs than its other moves. Let's be real Quick Attack isn't that powerful, its fast but not enough to do a lot of damage, Fire Punch isn't very effective and if I remember Blaziken didn't land any Flamethrowers on Charizard that just collided attacks. But yeah, I wouldn't say it was a BAD loss but it could have been avoided if Ash had chosen his match-ups during the battle better.

    Hoenn; What made this league kind of dull (honestly this is one of my favorite if not my favorite league where I can't help but watch EVERY episode from the league if I go back to look at my DVDs) is that Ash used the SAME 6 Pokemon the ENTIRE league. Honestly, that should have given him a huge disadvantage being that his opponents (if they studied his matches) could prepare accordingly especially in the full battle rounds to counter his Pokemon types and attacks. Now on to Tyson's battle: like Harrison it was a matter of Ash choosing bad match ups. Glalie vs. Sceptile wasn't a bad choice but I think he should have went with Torkoal or Swellow instead but that's just me. Why he chose to use Corphish against a Hariyama I don't know (but it was probably because that same match up happened in the 2nd gym but this was different) the same with Torkoal too bad he didn't know about Thick Fat (unless Brock would have screamed it out louder for Ash to hear). Swellow against Donphan? Cool but unbelievable after multiple Rollouts only for Swellow to toss it with its talons. Moving on to Meowth in Boots...

    What made it bad was that Pikachu's Thunder was countered by Thunderbolt. I mean I'll let the Thunderbolt vs. Thunderbolt from Meowth and Pikachu being even slide, but for it to be equal to Thunder is completely unbelievable! And if you ask me the ONLY reason Meowth was able to stand longer was because it had those boots to support its legs. I really wanted to see Grovyle vs. Meowth since both his "blade" attacks; Slash for Meowth and Leaf Blade for Grovyle.

    Both are badass in their own right when compared to the rest of their trainer's team. Meowth looks like a cowboy while Grovyle with the twig in its mouth looks like a gangster or something. Slash vs. Leaf Blade, Bullet Seed vs. Double Team, Pound vs. Iron Tail and Quick Attack vs. Thunderbolt (those are just possible attack collisions that could take place like how for Pikachu; Quick Attack was countered with Slash, Thunder/Thunderbolt with Thunderbolt and Iron Tail with Iron Tail). But I think the only reason that happened was because Grovyle won against Katie's Walrein giving Ash the win.

    Sinnoh; 2 things made this bad-Ash was up against a team of 6 LEGENDARY POKEMON (Potentially if Tobias had all legends on his team, if so I wonder what his starter was...) and Ash had to choose one of the worst 6 Pokemon of his career to face off against them. Gible seriously? Heck, even if it was a Gabite I wouldn't be upset over him choosing it to battle. He had the right idea with Heracross (if the anime allowed items like Choice Scarf then he could have raped Darkrai AND Latios with Megahorn), Torkoal wasn't his best option, Gible seriously? Swellow, Pikachu and Sceptile were great choices given their past track records in battle. Overall, it was the writer's call of ending the battle in one episode like that to move on to BW (which from what we've seen was a bad call overall).

    Unova; Just awful, Ash was the one that got Cameron to sign in on time and this is how his kindness is repaid. Ash should have won but also AGAIN used his Pokemon better by switching them out during the match like Pignite vs. Samorutt, Oshawott vs. a fully evolved pseduo-Dragon? It was extremely bad writing on the creator's part for the way that entire match went down. I think the WORST part was Riolu destroying Unfezant with impossible feats of dodging methods against moves like Gust. Ash using all of those Quick Attacks against Lucario was extremely stupid because it just wore Pikachu out. That final collision another perfect example of why Volt Tackle should not have been written off of Pikachu's move list. I could go on but everyone else pretty much summed up why this battle was terrible.

    Now after going through the losses which one do I think was the worst? Well to me losing a league doesn't say much about Ash at all. To me the league is the culmination of Ash's entire journey through a region; the gym battles, trainer battles, training, Pokemon catches, interaction with other people/trainers/Pokemon, etc.

    If you ask me Sinnoh was possibly his BEST. Why do I say that? To sum it up with some of his best victories was defeating Volkner a feat no other trainer has done since he took the role of gym leader, defeated his toughest rival ever (Paul) and defeated the unbeatable Darkrai (the only Pokemon Tobias used to win his 8 badges and throughout the entire Sinnoh League before facing Ash) and also making Tobias use a 2nd Pokemon for the first time during the league defeating it as well (even though his last Pokemon, Pikachu fell it still counted). And the fact Tobias only used Darkrai in the finally match to win the league. That could possibly mean that Ash was the BEST trainer in the league and in Sinnoh (aside from Tobias...). That depends on whether or not you consider him having a DBZ-powered ape on his team a fair advantage...

    I think what made his loss painful there was the buildup of him battling the E4 and Cynthia given that he never fought Cynthia, Flint seemed to have complete faith in Ash's skills to win (do his best if he believed he won anyway), Lucian was the BEST example of why Ash was going to win with the foreshadowing of only battling Ash AFTER beating the league and being able to fight the E4, Bertha giving him advice not only battling him but about the power of observation and Paul to me was there for Ash to show his way of training worked with Infernape unlocking/controlling Blaze and the whole thing with Brandon was a reason for Paul NOT to win the league because his ultimate battle was to conquer the Battle Pyramid his brother lost to. Then for all of that to be thrown away for the Unova Saga is just painful to watch...

    If I had to pick the worst it would be between either Kanto OR Unova. I think what made Unova painful wasn't just losing to Cameron but the fact that he regressed from his previous league and that entire region for him has just been a horrible ride from start to finish. Kanto was his first region and league but the fact that he had Charizard for so long since he got it as a Charmander he should have raised it better the same with his unevolved Unova Pokemon. But by Unova, he should have known how to train and raise his Pokemon better given all his other previous experiences.

    So, my vote goes to Unova.
    Ash regressed in the Unova league because the Pokémon League fell on the third season/year of the region he was in (also happened in Johto and Hoenn). Besides, there is a pattern with league positions depending on the year/season it falls in. The only way Ash could have gotten in the Top 4 was if the league fell in the fourth year and the only way for him to win was if it was more seasons than that in a series.

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