Why Isn't EP081 Included in Season Two?

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Thread: Why Isn't EP081 Included in Season Two?

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    Default Why Isn't EP081 Included in Season Two?

    For the longest time, something has been troubling me about the placement of EP081, "Pallet Party Panic" or "Masara Town! Setting off on a New Journey!", in Season One instead of Season Two. Here are some key points as to why EP081 should be considered as a Season Two episode.

    Airing on January 28, 1999 in Japan, EP081 was the first episode to air with the theme song "The Rivals". replacing "Aim to be a Pokémon Master". Right away, this should mean something. And while this episode did air with the Season One Theme in the English Dub numerous times, it was changed to the Season Two Theme on the DVD, and as far as I know, also for later airings on TV. I think this definitely shows the change of season began in EP081 as the opening changed in both languages, which most commonly reflects the season itself.

    If you saw EP080 and EP081, I'm sure you'll get where I'm going with this next. EP080 is basically the end of the Indigo League and would be a great choice for the final episode of Season One. EP081 on the other hand, begins the next season with the task of delivering the GS Ball. So wouldn't it make more sense with an episode like that to be at the beginning of a season and not at the end of one?

    With these two reasons, I think I present a pretty solid case.

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    Default Re: Why Isn't EP081 Included in Season Two?

    The first episode of the international season 2 is Riddle Me This, and the final episode is Charizard Chills. For the first eight seasons, seasons were divided into 52 episode blocks, regardless the story arcs being covered within those episodes or the theme songs accompanying the episodes. (For example, season 6 is composed of the final 12 episodes of Master Quest and all 40 episodes of Advanced.)

    As for the episode division that fans and sometimes (but not always) the various DVD distributors across various regions like to use, Pallet Party Panic is grouped with the Orange Islands episodes. For example, Viz's U.S. DVD releases end the "Indigo League" sets with Friends to the End and start "Adventures on the Orange Islands" with Pallet Party Panic.

    So either way, that episode is inside "season 2". So, you're right! ;)
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    Default Re: Why Isn't EP081 Included in Season Two?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lil Brother View Post
    The first episode of the international season 2 is Riddle Me This, and the final episode is Charizard Chills. For the first eight seasons, seasons were divided into 52 episode blocks, regardless the story arcs being covered within those episodes or the theme songs accompanying the episodes. (For example, season 6 is composed of the final 12 episodes of Master Quest and all 40 episodes of Advanced.)

    As for the episode division that fans and sometimes (but not always) the various DVD distributors across various regions like to use, Pallet Party Panic is grouped with the Orange Islands episodes. For example, Viz's U.S. DVD releases end the "Indigo League" sets with Friends to the End and start "Adventures on the Orange Islands" with Pallet Party Panic.

    So either way, that episode is inside "season 2". So, you're right! ;)
    But they first method of order you suggested really doesn't make sense. For example, going by that order, Season 2, which is called "Adventures in the Orange Islands", more than half of that season would take place in Kanto, not the Orange Archipelago, "Riddle Me This" to "Friends To The End". In my opinion, it's much smarter to go by the corresponding openings to each season rather than splitting it into 52 episode blocks.

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    Default Re: Why Isn't EP081 Included in Season Two?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fennekin View Post
    Season 2, which is called "Adventures in the Orange Islands",
    That name refer to the episode block making up half of season 2 and parts of season 3, and didn't exist until these episodes were released on home formats. Nowhere in the series itself is it referred to by any other title than just "Pokémon".

    This goes for other such blocks, too. "Johto Journeys", "Master Quest" and "Advanced" are all names of episode blocks, rather than seasons. The only place that calls the actual seasons by these names is pokemon.com, which kind of handwaves the fact that the first dozen episodes of "Season 6: Pokémon Advanced" are called "Pokémon: Master Quest" in the episodes themselves, etc.
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    So.

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    Default Re: Why Isn't EP081 Included in Season Two?

    Plus, Season 2 is still from "Riddle Me This" to "Charizard Chills" regardless of whether or not you think it's "smart" to divide the series that way.
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    Default Re: Why Isn't EP081 Included in Season Two?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogasu View Post
    Plus, Season 2 is still from "Riddle Me This" to "Charizard Chills" regardless of whether or not you think it's "smart" to divide the series that way.
    Don't forget the two Porygon-delayed holiday episodes that were held back to season 2 in dub order for some reason.

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    Default Re: Why Isn't EP081 Included in Season Two?

    Those two episodes were held back and aired at exactly the same point in both the original and the 4Kids dub (and probably the other Asian dubs, too). That's their official placement in the series as far as those involved are concerned, regardless of how much they don't fit there.

    EDIT: Oops, disregard this, wrong episodes.
    Last edited by Adamant; 14th February 2013 at 06:22 AM.
    So.

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    Default Re: Why Isn't EP081 Included in Season Two?

    @Thingamajig, are you talking about "Holiday Hi-Jynx" and "Snow Way Out," or are you talking about "Princess vs. Princess" and "A Purr-fect Hero?"
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    Default Re: Why Isn't EP081 Included in Season Two?

    Princess vs. Princess and The Purr-Fect Hero. Since the holidays aren't particularly significant outside of Japan, I guess the dub shifted them to season 2 to avoid breaking up the Todd Snap arc.

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    Default Re: Why Isn't EP081 Included in Season Two?

    What I remember hearing back in the day is that 4Kids moved the episodes back because they weren't going to be able to finish editing them on time. "Princess vs. Princess," in particular, had an insane number of paint edits.
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    Default Re: Why Isn't EP081 Included in Season Two?

    The dub has screwy divisions, I tend to ignore them. Where the Orange League saga "should" begin, though, is a tougher question to answer. You have a point that this ep introduced a new plot thread, and thus, it should begin the saga. Personally, I consider this to be the finale of the Kanto arc and the next ep is the start of the Orange League proper. The only other saga that I see a problem like this, but it is more clear that a new plot began, is the Battle Frontier arc, which I consider starting with the Agatha ep, but the pedia doesn't agree with that either and places it at the end of the Hoenn arc. It's sort of the same thing, Scott shows up and the Battle Frontier challenge is introduced. With this logic, maybe I should put this ep with Orange, I dunno. The only other internal saga division is with Johto, and pretty much everyone will agree it starts with New Bark and the starter reiteration thing. However, the idea of going to Johto isn't brought to Ash until after he fights Gary. Does this mean this ep starts the Johto saga, too? I am unwilling to relent on this stand since it's obvious the saga starts with New Bark, but it does bring into question where the other sagas properly begin. From this line of thinking, I don't think it has to do with the introduction of the concept itself, but when the goal becomes this new concept, which would mean that Orange begins with the blimp, but the pedia would be right that Battle Frontier begins with Ash's return to Pallet. I don't know what the pedia's stance is on this.
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    Default Re: Why Isn't EP081 Included in Season Two?

    Why are we even discussing this other order when that's not even the problem here since it's not even used on Bulbapedia?

    List of anime episodes - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

    As you can see, the first season, "Indigo League", is ordered from "Pokémon—I Choose You!" to "Pallet Party Panic". What I'm asking is, why can't "Pallet Party Panic" be moved into Season 2, "Adventures in the Orange Islands"?

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    Default Re: Why Isn't EP081 Included in Season Two?

    I gave up long ago trying to figure out the screwy dub seasons. According to the official site, Season 2, labelled as Orange Islands, starts on EP052 (Princess vs. Princess)and ends on EP105 (Charizard Chills) I assume that is what all DVDs of it in English go by. If you're looking for it ordered as the fandom sees it, I don't think that exists, not even for Japanese sets. (then again, I don't know how Pocket Monsters is done in DVDs there) You'll just have to keep in mind where the saga divisions are supposed to be.
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    Default Re: Why Isn't EP081 Included in Season Two?

    The 4Kids dub seasons aren't screwy at all if you're able to count to 52. It's not even the tiniest bit difficult or confusing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Samurott
    According to the official site, Season 2, labelled as Orange Islands, starts on EP052 (Princess vs. Princess)and ends on EP105 (Charizard Chills) I assume that is what all DVDs of it in English go by.
    Adamant already explained that away earlier in this thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by Adamant
    That name refer to the episode block making up half of season 2 and parts of season 3, and didn't exist until these episodes were released on home formats. Nowhere in the series itself is it referred to by any other title than just "Pokémon".

    This goes for other such blocks, too. "Johto Journeys", "Master Quest" and "Advanced" are all names of episode blocks, rather than seasons. The only place that calls the actual seasons by these names is pokemon.com, which kind of handwaves the fact that the first dozen episodes of "Season 6: Pokémon Advanced" are called "Pokémon: Master Quest" in the episodes themselves, etc.
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    Default Re: Why Isn't EP081 Included in Season Two?

    The Australian DVD sets go by the official seasons while the US sets release them by arcs it seems.
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