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  1. #91
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    Default Re: What would the dub be like if TPCi handled it from the beginning?

    I guess the dub would have been all around better if TPCI had it from the beginning. There would have been no useless edits such as removal of Japanese text or changing riceball and other Japanese food references to more American foods. I imagine there wouldn't have been so many banned episodes (not sure what would have been done about the one with the guns) and I guess it would have been closer to the original.

    The only thing I could say I prefer about 4kids was their openings. I really only liked two of TPCI's while I like all of 4kids'.

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    Default Re: What would the dub be like if TPCi handled it from the beginning?

    Quote Originally Posted by Team Gaara View Post
    I guess the dub would have been all around better if TPCI had it from the beginning. There would have been no useless edits such as removal of Japanese text or changing riceball and other Japanese food references to more American foods. I imagine there wouldn't have been so many banned episodes (not sure what would have been done about the one with the guns) and I guess it would have been closer to the original.

    The only thing I could say I prefer about 4kids was their openings. I really only liked two of TPCI's while I like all of 4kids'.
    I think that the only banned episodes that could have had a chance to air would be Beauty and the Beach and maybe the Ice Cave episode. They could have edited it like what 4Kids eventually did, but right away. They could have altered Jynx's appearance like 4Kids eventually did when it appeared for May's last Hoenn Contest, but I'm not sure if that would have been more expensive than it would be worthwhile. Since the Dratini episode featured a lot of guns and I believe that it was the FCC that banned it, instead of 4Kids, that probably would have been the same. The Porygon episode definitely wouldn't have aired regardless of if TPCI dubbed the series from the start or not.

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    Default Re: What would the dub be like if TPCi handled it from the beginning?

    Quote Originally Posted by EmotionalTensionPKMN View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Doesn't make a difference to me, I found Johto just as dull and uninteresting when 4kids was dubbing, and back then we didn't even know there was going to be a dub switch.

    Hated Lisa Ortiz voicing every Johto filler girl, Misty's voice became too quite and softspoken and I honestly think Rachael Lilis portrayal of her made her seem less interesting than in the Japanese version. Ash and Brock were the same as was Team Rocket.

    4kids couldn't save my younger self from being so bored to wanting to fast forward through the episodes just to see something interesting happen.
    I don't blame you. I guess we all have that saga that just doesn't click with us and bores us. For you, it's Johto. For me, it's Sinnoh. lol. :)
    And for me, Sinnoh was the best (if only a bit too long), the saga I don't like much is Advanced.

    Back on topic, I agree with most people in that TPCI's opening are just plain horrible. However, I must say I like thye Season 10 opening. Since anyways the openings are based on the Japanese ones, I wonder how different would be the season 1 opening...
    Last edited by VeggiePopper; 18th May 2013 at 12:52 AM.


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    Default Re: What would the dub be like if TPCi handled it from the beginning?

    Quote Originally Posted by VeggiePopper View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by EmotionalTensionPKMN View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by The Fighting Misty View Post
    Doesn't make a difference to me, I found Johto just as dull and uninteresting when 4kids was dubbing, and back then we didn't even know there was going to be a dub switch.

    Hated Lisa Ortiz voicing every Johto filler girl, Misty's voice became too quite and softspoken and I honestly think Rachael Lilis portrayal of her made her seem less interesting than in the Japanese version. Ash and Brock were the same as was Team Rocket.

    4kids couldn't save my younger self from being so bored to wanting to fast forward through the episodes just to see something interesting happen.
    I don't blame you. I guess we all have that saga that just doesn't click with us and bores us. For you, it's Johto. For me, it's Sinnoh. lol. :)
    And for me, Sinnoh was the best (if only a bit too long), the saga I don't like much is Advanced.

    Back on topic, I agree with most people in that TPCI's opening are just plain horrible. However, I must say I like thye Season 10 opening. Since anyways the openings are based on the Japanese ones, I wonder how different would be the season 1 opening...
    That's cool. Initially I hated Advanced, but eventually I got around to liking it myself. :)

    I actually have to say this much to answer the question indirectly: I think it's for the best 4Kids handled Pokemon at first despite the edits, I am quite sad they're gone in the English dub's case, and I miss them dubbing Pokemon under TPCi's supervision. They actually seemed to make the repetitive nature of this show LESS repetitive by adding in some jokes and mannerisms sometimes for the older audience. Together 4Kids, TAJ, and TPCi did a fantastic job, IMO, and it's only when 4Kids, TAJ, and TPCi parted ways I noticed both all companies' dub work took a drastic turn for the worse. :(

    I'll admit that, as much as TPCi's dub has improved in Black and White to me, I felt 4Kids' dub was really fun and interesting, and I was really sad to see them go. For all the crappy edits and errors they made, 4Kids really had something TPCi has never really had: heart and effort to go beyond the norm. Sure, that's subjective, but I firmly believe that's the case and the dub has lacked truly believable emotion and goofiness without them.
    Last edited by Pokémon Master Ash; 18th May 2013 at 02:39 PM.
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    Default Re: What would the dub be like if TPCi handled it from the beginning?

    Quote Originally Posted by VeggiePopper View Post
    No, they still wouldn't have kept the music. Ever wondered why nearly no anime dub retains its original music? It's because in Japan, musical scores are treated as that: music, and therefore they constitute, in Japanese laws and practices, a separate work from from the animation (or movie or TV series or whatever work the music is accompaining), thus, when a dubbing company intends to dub an anime series, it has to purchase both the series and the score and thus pay for them separately. Therefore, it becomes cheaper for the dubbing company to pay only for the series and hire an inhouse composer to write a new soundtrack.

    "My understanding is they replace the music now because of a contract 4Kids set up with John Loeffler or whoever to have him handle the music", yeah, just like TPCI respected the voice actors' contracts with 4Kids, right? If anything, had TPCI handled the dub since the start of the series, they would have still replaced the Japanese score, only that the American score would most probably be done by a different composer.
    "Nearly no anime dub?" Like 99% of new anime dubs keep their Japanese music, the exceptions usually being children's shows (in fact, that Pokemon keeps ANY of its music is pretty unusual for a made-for-TV dub). As for Pokemon, that explanation would make more sense if 4Kids didn't start out keeping nearly all of the music anyway. You'd think if the music was getting too expensive they would have just replaced all of it, as they did with the movies and most of their other dubs.

    As for TPCI respecting the VAs' contract, maybe the voice actors had an exclusivity clause that the composers didn't, or the composers didn't care about being blacklisted by 4Kids (Jimmy Zoppi and Kayzie Rogers were both fired from every recurring role they had at 4Kids after jumping over to TPCI).

    I feel like TPCI carries on a lot of 4Kids-added things out of tradition more than anything, like each season having different titles, cutting the previews/Oak segments, replacing bgm in the show but keeping it in the movies, etc. Not that they might not have done those on their own, but it is a possibility.

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    Default Re: What would the dub be like if TPCi handled it from the beginning?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yash View Post
    "Nearly no anime dub?" Like 99% of new anime dubs keep their Japanese music, the exceptions usually being children's shows (in fact, that Pokemon keeps ANY of its music is pretty unusual for a made-for-TV dub). As for Pokemon, that explanation would make more sense if 4Kids didn't start out keeping nearly all of the music anyway. You'd think if the music was getting too expensive they would have just replaced all of it, as they did with the movies and most of their other dubs.
    You said it, NEW anime dubs. But the thing is, the Pokémon anime isn't a 'new' (nor recent in any way) anime, the dub started off in 1998 so actually your point only adds to mine rather than defeats it.

    Anywhoo, I stopped watching dubbed anime a long time ago, so I wasn't aware that it is not the norm anymore, so I thank you for that.


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    Default Re: What would the dub be like if TPCi handled it from the beginning?

    Quote Originally Posted by VeggiePopper View Post
    You said it, NEW anime dubs. But the thing is, the Pokémon anime isn't a 'new' (nor recent in any way) anime, the dub started off in 1998 so actually your point only adds to mine rather than defeats it.

    Anywhoo, I stopped watching dubbed anime a long time ago, so I wasn't aware that it is not the norm anymore, so I thank you for that.
    That doesn't change the fact that 4Kids was able to secure the rights to nearly all the music in the first few seasons when they were a fledgling company with no money. Their producers have stated many times that the reason they used new music was because they thought it would make the show more appealing to children.

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    Default Re: What would the dub be like if TPCi handled it from the beginning?

    Thinking hard about it, I'm pretty glad 4Kids handled the older seasons tbh. To me, they put so much life and energy into the show-- more importantly, well: love. They truly seemed to care about it to me- with all the soundtracks they released, the dub music they made still fitting the scenes quite well, and some of the lines they wrote for Team Rocket were downright hilarious. Ash seemed like a cute little kid aspiring to meet his dreams, and the voices were so well cast for the characters-- eventually, they grew on me to the point where I felt they were the characters. Taking 4Kids away from Pokemon was not like taking One Piece away from them: in fact, I'd say it was quite the opposite.

    If TPCi handled Pokemon from the beginning, I honestly don't think the show would've been nearly as special to me as it has become. It was 4Kids, not TPCi, who got me into Pokemon. It was TPCi, not 4Kids, who nearly caused me to abandon my Pokemon Anime Fandom at several points. The anime has almost become a part of me in some ways-- as cheesy as it is, as childish as it may be, these are things other shows are missing. There's nothing quite like childlike innocence and fun in life. Regardless, I am a Pokemon fan through and through, as much as I have missed 4Kids over the last several years.

    People are going to give me crap for this, but I truly feel the dub was in better hands with them, edits and all. It felt like a really...unique...show with them. As bad as some of their other dubs were, 4Kids was great with Pokemon, and I can't say I've liked the dub as much without them. The show has never truly felt like itself without them for some reason. I'm sad to see what happened to them, I'm really sad the TPCi dub is going to go on longer than the 4Kids dub, and I'm sad people look back on 4Kids so negatively with Pokemon due to a few onigiri edits, some JPN music removal, and some text removal. That's not what really matters when it comes to Pokemon-- it's the Pokemon, the characters, and how they grow and learn from their mistakes. That's just me, though.

    Bottomline, talk all the crap about 4Kids you want, but I think they did a fine job. Heck, I think they did a fantastic job. I would even go as far as to say I would take them back over TPCi. There, I said it. Come at me, bro.

    Bear in mind this doesn't mean I dislike the TPCi dub: in fact, I think it's actually a good dub, but I really, really loved the 4Kids dub and it was so sad for me to see them go. They gave Pokemon something very, very special, and it's something I really respect them for, even if no one else does but me. I don't know what it is, but either way, I always look back on their dub episodes fondly. Every time I re-watch one again, I can't help but feel sad to see how everyone viewed them as this "evil" riceball-hating, error-loving company, when I really don't feel that way at all. To me, they were great, and things have never been the same since they left.
    Last edited by Pokémon Master Ash; 26th May 2013 at 07:12 PM.

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