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  1. #181

    Default Re: Unova league in 3 months (in anime time)

    Quote Originally Posted by Moe View Post
    He's only won most of the Gym battles because he brings in reserve Pokemon that have unjustified power to win battles. There's almost a reverse correlation between the amount of training he gives his Pokemon and their strength - Oshawott has made nearly no visible progress beyond being able to actually do the attacks it has, Snivy has stagnated and Scraggy still hasn't mastered a powerful attack. Pignite is an exception, though still not near his previous league fire powerhouses. Whereas his reserves come on, evolve mid battle and clench victory.
    And why would you expect the league matches to be written any differently? If the writers do it there, they're going to do it in the league.

    For a believable league victory, the Pokemon each need to have justified strength. The Pokemon Ash has trained in Unova are not strong - Pikachu and the reserve Pokemon he barely trains are, and are the only reason he gets by. Having weak or inconsistent rivals and not having full battles up to this point helps hide that.
    They're strong enough to beat accomplished Gym leaders. We're also bound to have a few more evos by the time the league begins anyway.

    I hope that either the World Tournament is before the league and provides for significant battle training to make a justifiable league win, helped by Dawn's contest battle style helping to show Ash's new Pokemon of those skills, or that he fails miserably in the league and goes there for redemption.
    I agree, I think Ash's skills will surely shine in the Eastern Unova arc pumping him up for the league.

  2. #182
    Not even my final form GreatLiver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unova league in 3 months (in anime time)

    DP had 180 episodes to fit in the training of about 7 pokemon before the league. BW will likely have had only around 100 episodes total to fit in the training of 10 pokemon before the league starts up. Factoring in other things going on, it makes a lot of sense we haven't seen as much training of his team. It really doesn't make sense to complain about that. Just deal with it, that's how it worked out.

  3. #183

    Default Re: Unova league in 3 months (in anime time)

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatLiver View Post
    DP had 180 episodes to fit in the training of about 7 pokemon before the league. BW will likely have had only around 100 episodes total to fit in the training of 10 pokemon before the league starts up. Factoring in other things going on, it makes a lot of sense we haven't seen as much training of his team. It really doesn't make sense to complain about that. Just deal with it, that's how it worked out.
    Also keep in mind most of the evo's for DP didn't even happen till the tail-end. Turtwig evolved at episode 100, Chimchar didn't evolve till like ep 160 or whatever it was. Then Torterra happened right before the 8th Gym.

    The starters evo's are slow this time too, and there are signs that Snivy might be evolving soon anyway. I am sure Ash will have a powered up team by league time.

  4. #184
    Registered User Moe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unova league in 3 months (in anime time)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    And why would you expect the league matches to be written any differently? If the writers do it there, they're going to do it in the league.
    They could well do - it's certainly possible he could win the lot. But it wouldn't be a demonstration of clear skill progression over the heights of Sinnoh and therefore mean far less in the greater scheme of Ash's journey to win at this point than it would have to win in Sinnoh. Winning against Paul came after putting absolutely all the effort of his skill as a trainer and the strength and development of his Pokemon behind it. A league win against Trip would happen because his Unfezant might be slightly quicker, or his Krookodile could stay standing after a head on collision slightly longer than Conkeldurr.

    Of course you'd expect a higher standard of battles at the league, therefore the cheap wins will be even more forced.

    They're strong enough to beat accomplished Gym leaders.
    If you're right about the battle against Homika, that's out the door. Of course, I think I'm right and that it will be the start of a period of growing strength on screen that will start to justify league strength, but on his current form, he shouldn't pass the round of 16.

    We're also bound to have a few more evos by the time the league begins anyway.
    There's not much left to evolve and mid battle evolutions in the league would be even worse than those in the Gyms.

  5. #185
    Super Moderator Hidden Mew's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Unova league in 3 months (in anime time)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd View Post
    People only believed his skills were downgraded because of those two early losses to Trip and Pikachu losing in the first Gym.
    Considering that the question of whether Ash's skills have been downgraded was discussed long after those defeats and included other examples, such as some of his later Gym battle victories, I don't think those were the only reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gliscor'd
    His loss to Aloe was accepted because it was a believeable loss, and his loss in the tournaments just had the writers skewing working against him. They obviously wanted Iris to get a big win and the second was just for the two fighting pokemon.
    I agree that his loss to Aloe was believable, but the victory wasn't as believable, although not the worst victory he has has in a Gym battle in this region.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreatLiver
    DP had 180 episodes to fit in the training of about 7 pokemon before the league. BW will likely have had only around 100 episodes total to fit in the training of 10 pokemon before the league starts up. Factoring in other things going on, it makes a lot of sense we haven't seen as much training of his team. It really doesn't make sense to complain about that. Just deal with it, that's how it worked out.
    I can understand that the different pacing and the larger amount of Pokemon he has in this region compared to Sinnoh would make it difficult for the writers to fit in training. Though, I don't think it would be impossible and they could have made it easier on themselves by not giving Ash so many Pokemon in one journey in the first place. I also don't think that it excuses the quality in the battles or in Ash's skills. I don't like the whole "just deal with it" attitude either. I don't see why I can't have issues with it or give my opinion on the matter. Saying that it doesn't make sense to complain about this also feels rather insulting towards my opinion and I don't really appreciate that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Moe
    I hope that either the World Tournament is before the league and provides for significant battle training to make a justifiable league win, helped by Dawn's contest battle style helping to show Ash's new Pokemon of those skills, or that he fails miserably in the league and goes there for redemption.
    I would like either one of those cases to happen. Having the World Tournament before the league could give his Pokemon some much needed training and development to make his rank in the Unova League more believable or going their after losing in the league could help Ash's confidence, assuming that the defeat in the league affects him like that, and helps him to become a stronger trainer. Either way would work for me, but I have a feeling that they'll probably have something like the first option, if only because I think that there's a stronger chance that the World Tournament is held before the Unova League than after it.

  6. #186

    Default Re: Unova league in 3 months (in anime time)

    DP apparently went on too long, but all the training showed just how strong he was so most people enjoyed the battles.
    BW is faster paced, but because of that we don't see him train as much which makes a lot of people not enjoy his battles.

    Either way the writers can't win.

    As I've been saying for two years I'm just not seeing how Satoshi has regressed. Hopefully the league will prove that to everyone.

  7. #187
    Registered User Moe's Avatar
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    Default Re: Unova league in 3 months (in anime time)

    Quote Originally Posted by Musashi View Post
    BW is faster paced, but because of that we don't see him train as much which makes a lot of people not enjoy his battles.

    Either way the writers can't win.
    It's not the lack of training, it's that the Pokemon he doesn't train come in to clean up where the Pokemon he does train fail. If what training Ash did was balanced out across all of his Pokemon, not just the starters + Scraggy and that battle wins on screen were vaguely attached to the amount of time spent training each one, it would be fine with less overall training.

  8. #188

    Default Re: Unova league in 3 months (in anime time)

    Scraggy is one of those baby turned powerhouses. I am sure rock an croc will have evo's by the league and Snivy will too.

    Once again Torterra didn't get a single win in the league. Lot of good all that did.

  9. #189

    Default Re: Unova league in 3 months (in anime time)

    Quote Originally Posted by Moe View Post
    It's not the lack of training, it's that the Pokemon he doesn't train come in to clean up where the Pokemon he does train fail. If what training Ash did was balanced out across all of his Pokemon, not just the starters + Scraggy and that battle wins on screen were vaguely attached to the amount of time spent training each one, it would be fine with less overall training.
    Satoshi didn't train them evenly when he had just 6 Pokemon either.

    And like Glisor'd said, it doesn't really matter anyway since no one (except Pikachu) is guaranteed a win in the league anyway. I prefer the variety.

  10. #190
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    Default Re: Unova league in 3 months (in anime time)

    I would love if Ash become Alder student after the Unova league and stop traveling for 3 year !
    That will be the suitable ending for Best Wish !
    After 3 year , he start new journey in a new series where he keep show's how much he improved !
    To the point that he can beat Paul easily and also good enough to knock down one of Elite 4 member's pokemon !

  11. #191

    Default Re: Unova league in 3 months (in anime time)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kishore View Post
    I would love if Ash become Alder student after the Unova league and stop traveling for 3 year !
    That will be the suitable ending for Best Wish !
    After 3 year , he start new journey in a new series where he keep show's how much he improved !
    To the point that he can beat Paul easily and also good enough to knock down one of Elite 4 member's pokemon !
    Well he won't beat Paul easily because Paul will also improve. He has enormous potential to do so.

    As for Unova and Ash's skills and pokemon he caught... Well writers simply did reboot Ash's skills and Pikachu's strength after Sinnoh. Because Pikachu would never loose to Snivy just given to a trainer (Trip) even if it couldn't use electric attacks. Quick Attack, Iron Tail are more than enough. And considering Pikachu's skills and pokemons it defeated (Regice, Latios) you can't seriously imagine Pikachu will ever loose to a pokemon just given to a beginner. The problem with the writers is that they had to make Ash travel to a new region and earn 8 badges but Ash's skills as a trainer and Pikachu's strength would make gym battles realatively easy for Ash and they would have given a rival considerable to Paul which was a great problem. So they simply rebooted everything (even though they don't say about that) and we see what we see. Ash is weak like in Kanto, his pokemons are weak and he even looses to such trainers as Iris and Trip which is a big shame for him. He is bullied by Iris all this time like he is a kid and never says anything to her and never does anything to put her in right place.

  12. #192
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    Default Re: Unova league in 3 months (in anime time)

    Quote Originally Posted by swampertuska View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Kishore View Post
    I would love if Ash become Alder student after the Unova league and stop traveling for 3 year !
    That will be the suitable ending for Best Wish !
    After 3 year , he start new journey in a new series where he keep show's how much he improved !
    To the point that he can beat Paul easily and also good enough to knock down one of Elite 4 member's pokemon !
    Well he won't beat Paul easily because Paul will also improve. He has enormous potential to do so.

    As for Unova and Ash's skills and pokemon he caught... Well writers simply did reboot Ash's skills and Pikachu's strength after Sinnoh. Because Pikachu would never loose to Snivy just given to a trainer (Trip) even if it couldn't use electric attacks. Quick Attack, Iron Tail are more than enough. And considering Pikachu's skills and pokemons it defeated (Regice, Latios) you can't seriously imagine Pikachu will ever loose to a pokemon just given to a beginner. The problem with the writers is that they had to make Ash travel to a new region and earn 8 badges but Ash's skills as a trainer and Pikachu's strength would make gym battles realatively easy for Ash and they would have given a rival considerable to Paul which was a great problem. So they simply rebooted everything (even though they don't say about that) and we see what we see. Ash is weak like in Kanto, his pokemons are weak and he even looses to such trainers as Iris and Trip which is a big shame for him. He is bullied by Iris all this time like he is a kid and never says anything to her and never does anything to put her in right place.
    Unworthy & Unnecessary reason !
    There are many anime where the protagonist's are like a GENIUS and easily defect most of his rival !
    Such as ''Prince of Tennis'' , ''Intel D'' and ''Yugioh''.
    Its not necessary that Ash has a straggle like crazy against every single gym leader he fight !
    As long as it a good victory and Gym leader use verity of tactic , people will enjoy it with or without Ash's straggling .
    Plus , Pokemon world Tournament allow the gym leader to compteter so Gym leader need to be dangerously strong !
    There are more then 8 gym leader !
    So, Writer can reveal that among gym leader's , there are 8 or 4 gym leader who hardly ever get's defected by anyone however they does give Gym badge if Trainer is proven his worthiness !
    In DP Advanture , Harata defected the gym leader without worrying but it was still enjoyable !
    Plus , They can give Ash a playful personality where he just check the opponent skill at first rather then fighting seriously from the first.
    People would love to see that Ash get into a pinch and might lose but Ash turn out to be smiling and reveal that he prepared a counter attack from the START like Paul and suddenly turn the table around .
    Ash doesn't need to be rebooted to fight against Gym leader.
    People will enjoy the battle as long as Gym leader try their best to beat Ash.
    Man , I really want Ash to win Unova league.
    It's irritating that Zoey won her Grand festival & Dawn reach the final while Ash haven't able to reach the League final!
    Not to mention , his defect in Junior Cup !
    with this ''Best Wish'' will indeed become the ''Worst Wish'' !
    @Moe, Its not necessary to show EVERY SINGLE detail of Ash life in on screen !
    Like how in Manga, The Protagonist caught new pokemon off screen & their pokemon learn new move & evolves off screen !
    But Mange are much more cooler then Anime & the Manga Protagonist are 100 time stronger then Ash !
    I would love if Ash reveal to teach his pokemon some new move or tactic off screen !
    Their no need to create episode about every single move Ash's pokemon learn !
    Last edited by Hurricane Kishore; 29th May 2012 at 04:29 PM.

  13. #193

    Default Re: Unova league in 3 months (in anime time)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kishore View Post
    It's irritating that Zoey won her Grand festival & Dawn reach the final while Ash haven't able to reach the League final!
    That's because they only had so much to do with Dawn. Where stuck with DumAsh until the end of time (because Arceus forbid we ever get a new hero).

    And Swamper? I'm not so sure about Latios, but Pikachu didn't defeat Regice by being strong & powerful. He beat it because of some the Worst Writing EVER (even by the Anime's standards).
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  14. #194

    Default Re: Unova league in 3 months (in anime time)

    Dawn probably got into the finals because it was the last Grand Festival of the anime.

  15. #195
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    Default Re: Unova league in 3 months (in anime time)

    ^ She got in because she's a main character and they wanted to make it interesting. Anyway, Dawn isn't even the topic of this thread. I'd very much prefer if they keep Ash's league battles balanced, seeing as some of his Pokemon are getting little time actually showing their worth. Hopefully BW2 will give them enough time for developing the right Pokemon to be relevant in the league. Its all about teamwork; each Pokemon involved in each league battle should play a key role in setting up and executing the strategy. Do I expect them to do it well? No, no I don't sadly, but maybe we'll be in for a pleasant surprise.
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