Thread: Unova league in 3 months (in anime time)

Unova League for Ash in my eyes could be a Top 4 W in minimun, could win it if the writer want to shake things up...

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

But your entire argument boils down to, "Ash shouldn't do good in this league because he's not as strong as he was in DP," which in reality, is only in everyones heads but never proven in the show.

No, my argument is that Ash's skills aren't good enough in this series to make getting to the Top 4 or Top 2 believable. I know that I compare his BW skills to DP often, as many other people have done, to get that point across but that comparison isn't necessary for my argument. Like I mentioned in that post, which I think that you ignored, even without comparing Ash to how he has been in DP, or even AG for that matter, his skills haven't been that impressive and the majority of battles in BW have fairly lackluster, which doesn't make me think he could get a high rank in the Unova League in a believable manner at least. If his battles were better, such as not involving involve so many cheap victories and his Unova Pokemon had more development, then I probably could see him get to the Top 4 again. I don't think that Ash is going to win any league anytime soon and like others have mentioned, I don't want him to win it anyway.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Can Ash lose the Unova league too? Yeah, he might get Top 4 or Top 2. But will it be because he's now a terrible battler? No.

I think that you're putting words in my mouth again. Please don't do that. I didn't call Ash a terrible battler. I've said that his skills and most of his battles have been lackluster, but I haven't called him a terrible battler. Aside from the third and fourth Gym battles, I wouldn't even call his Gym battles terrible. They're usually rushed and leave just an okay impression on me at best. I also still don't see what's wrong with getting to the Top 8 again. That would be a good rank and show that he isn't terrible. His Pokemon would get some time to showcase their strength and show any improvements over the course of this journey.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Also look at Dawn, who got into the finals of her very first Grand Festival despite losing 5 contests in the same region. The writers do whatever the hell they want.

I don't really appreciate your tone. Also, I'm not sure if the Dawn comparison makes a lot of sense. Yes, she lost five Contests in the same region, but she also trained often and improved her skills. There was a sense of progression for Dawn in her Contest journey that I think is missing in Ash's Unova journey. Dawn getting a high rank in her first Grand Festival felt fairly believable. Although, I think getting into the finals was a bit much, but not because it was her first Grand Festival or because she lost so often during the series. It was just because we barely saw her battling in the Grand Festival before she got to the finals. If we saw all of her battles in the tournament, even the ones against one-shot characters, then I probably would have had an easier time believing that she got to the finals. Yes, the writers can do what they want, but that doesn't necessarily mean that anything they do will be believable to the audience or that the audience will not question what happens in the series because the writers can do what they want.

Originally Posted by Yankees4life

Unova League for Ash in my eyes could be a Top 4 W in minimun, could win it if the writer want to shake things up...

I still think that getting a lower rank than the Top 4 would be a more interesting way to shake things up. At least it would be something that fans haven't wanted for years and it would be something slightly unexpected.

I agree with Hidden Mew Ash doesn't seem like he could place in top 4, in my eyes i see him in the sweet 16(being the 16th) if he uses his current rotation team only...i feel by the start of the Unova League he will have Embor and Krookdile ..so by the time the has his first league battle his team will be Pikachu,Embor,Krookdile,leavanney,unfezant which leaves his 6 and 7 and alt pokemon.i feel like palpitoad will evolve in the pokemon league same with boldore...along with returns of Gilscor Gible and Sceptile/torterra.

Ash battle skills Flux like the waves in the water at times there very good then other times there horrible and you one how in the hell did he make that far..This time he'll make a good showing but will get swept just like he did at the end of Johto and just move on to the the battle frontier.

Originally Posted by Hidden Mew

No, my argument is that Ash's skills aren't good enough in this series to make getting to the Top 4 or Top 2 believable. I know that I compare his BW skills to DP often, as many other people have done, to get that point across but that comparison isn't necessary for my argument. Like I mentioned in that post, which I think that you ignored, even without comparing Ash to how he has been in DP, or even AG for that matter, his skills haven't been that impressive and the majority of battles in BW have fairly lackluster, which doesn't make me think he could get a high rank in the Unova League in a believable manner at least. If his battles were better, such as not involving involve so many cheap victories and his Unova Pokemon had more development, then I probably could see him get to the Top 4 again. I don't think that Ash is going to win any league anytime soon and like others have mentioned, I don't want him to win it anyway.

In the context of the anime, Ash's skills haven't changed. The writers obviously changed the way the show worked in the BW transition with him getting lots of pokemon rather than focusing on the same team, but even then he hasn't gotten worse.

His DP team didn't even evolve fully till the tail-end anyway, so I don't know what the problem is.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

In the context of the anime, Ash's skills haven't changed. The writers obviously changed the way the show worked in the BW transition with him getting lots of pokemon rather than focusing on the same team, but even then he hasn't gotten worse.

His DP team didn't even evolve fully till the tail-end anyway, so I don't know what the problem is.

Looking at his Gym battles in this series, I don't see how his skills have improved, especially considering the little training he has done with his Pokemon during the course of the series. I remember watching the third and fourth Gym battles and feeling that there was no sense of progression because of the cheap victories he got in those matches. Evolution for some of his Pokemon would be nice, especially since I would like for Ash to get another evolved Water Pokemon after having quite a few evolved Fire and Grass Pokemon, and would make him look more ready to take on the Unova League, but the lack of training and not working on improving their movesets is more of a problem. The skills that he has shown up to this point do not give me the impression that he could get a high rank in the Unova League in a believable manner. I'm not saying that he's a terrible battler, although he has had a few really lousy matches in this series, and I'm not saying this just because I like DP more than BW. I just don't think he could get into the Top 4 or finals of the Unova League in a satisfying way, unless something drastically changes, which most likely isn't going to happen. If something does change to make me think that getting to the Top 4 or higher is believable, then great, but like I said, I seriously doubt that's going to happen. I think that a Top 8 would be more likely to happen, which I still think would be a good rank to reach all things considered. Even getting to the Top 4 again sounds like way too much of a stretch for me at this point.

I don't know what other way to say this. Ash isn't weaker. He's not going to do worse. The writers simply changed their writing style in the DP to BW transition.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

I don't know what other way to say this. Ash isn't weaker. He's not going to do worse. The writers simply changed their writing style in the DP to BW transition.

How do you know that? I personally wouldn't mind seeing Ash making it to the top 16, I can't see him making it to the Top 4 again let alone the Top 2 without it being really really forced. He has 30940939032 neglected reserves that aren't all that strong, most of them don't even have good balanced good movesets heck a lot of them don't even have full movesets.

I think that there will be a bunch of filler episodes focusing on some of the pokemon who havent been introduced in the anime.
and it is quite possible that ash and co might even go back to an old region for one of the supporting members (like how they went to kanto for may and her contests). i think that after iris gets her dragon master situation all settled out then the leauge will start. then ash gets into the championchip (loses most likely) and afterwards depending on future developements, maybe start a new journey to a new reigion like how the master quest season ended

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

He's not going to do worse.

But his pokemon are. They're new captures after all, and he only had two years to train them.

Originally Posted by martianmister

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

He's not going to do worse.

But his pokemon are. They're new captures after all, and he only had two years to train them.

LMAO, the time frame between leagues makes no difference in the anime. 4 years didn't pass in the anime between he start of Sinnoh and the league. There is no time difference.

I definitely see Ash doing better than before, the weak rival lineup this time combined with the promotion of Elite's in the opening and free time next year suggest the writers have something planned

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Originally Posted by martianmister

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

He's not going to do worse.

But his pokemon are. They're new captures after all, and he only had two years to train them.

LMAO, the time frame between leagues makes no difference in the anime. 4 years didn't pass in the anime between he start of Sinnoh and the league. There is no time difference.

I definitely see Ash doing better than before, the weak rival lineup this time combined with the promotion of Elite's in the opening and free time next year suggest the writers have something planned

I hope you are right but I kinda gave up after Sinnoh and don't expect much. Writers make an interesting move. In Sinnoh they made the rival who has beaten Ash so strong that it's already impossible to make a new rival even stronger (who will beat Ash) because it will be already on Elite Four level. I'd say that Takuto was close or even to E4 level. So they decided to make Ash weaker, his rivals weaker so that it is very simple now to create another Ritchie/Harrison/Tyson/Tobias who will beat Ash in the Unova League. Ash will loose and will loose in semifinal or maybe (though I hardly believe that) in the final. Why? Because I doubt writers will ever make Ash loose in the finals in a major tournament if he gets there (Don battles don't count of course). So we have Unova where Ash will likely loose in the semi-finals and maybe next region where Ash can win. Writers make Ash showing the same result as in previous region or better but never worse. So I doubt Ash will loose earlier than semi-finals. But one thing I am sure about is if Ash makes to the finals he will win. The question is if he reaches that stage in Unova or in next region.

The only thing I want to see if writers will ever make Ash challenging the Champions League it will be challenge against Cynthia. Because in my opinion:

1) she is so far the strongest champion
2) Garchomp VS Charizard would be epic and Charizard deserves to be the main star of Ash in his final match
3) Ash said in the last episode of DP that he will be the one who beats Cynthia. I hope it is. Because if not then why did the writers make Ash say that. Ash never said anything like that about any E4 member and the Champion. If he say something like that then he does it.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

I don't know what other way to say this. Ash isn't weaker. He's not going to do worse. The writers simply changed their writing style in the DP to BW transition.

That change in their writing style does make Ash look like his battle skills aren't good enough to warrant a high rank in the Unova League. That should be pretty obvious in at least a couple of his Gym battles. I honestly do think that it's possible that he could get a lower position in the Unova League. I still wouldn't mind a Top 16, but a Top 8 would probably be more likely and I still don't see how that would be so horrible. Getting to the Top 8 again would be more believable for me than getting to the Top 4 again or higher at this point. Besides that, like you said yourself, the writers can do whatever they want, so it's entirely possible that Ash could get a lower rank in the Unova League.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

I definitely see Ash doing better than before, the weak rival lineup this time combined with the promotion of Elite's in the opening and free time next year suggest the writers have something planned

Considering that they've always introduced a league rival that Ash loses to, I would imagine that they'll do the same for the Unova League. I don't see Ash getting that much higher than Trip or the new rival he'll get. I also can't see the match between Ash and Trip being a big deal compared to his matches against Gary and Paul due to the dull state of their rivalry. The promotion of the the Elite 4 and Champions in the opening means absolutely nothing. Ash met the Sinnoh Elite 4 in DP and that didn't lead to Ash entering the Champion League. Even with the faster pace of this series and having more time between the fifth and sixth generations compared to the time between the fourth and fifth generations by the time they got to the Sinnoh League, I seriously can't see Ash getting to the Champion League, let alone the Top 4, at this point. His Unova Pokemon aren't strong enough to make me think that they could get win the tournament for him and I don't think he has the skills to challenge the Elite 4, especially when he's always lost whenever he challenged an Elite 4 member. Besides that, a Champion League wouldn't be much longer than a regular League and it definitely wouldn't be an arc that could last until the sixth generation games come out. I imagine that the writers do have something planned for Ash to do after the Unova League, but it's most likely connected to B2/W2. We still don't know everything about the games and they could have some other kind of sidequest for Ash to challenge before the sixth generation games come out. I just don't think that Ash could get to the Champion League and for the record, I didn't believe he could do that in DP either.

Ash is not weaker, you're repeating the same arguments. These are the same reserves winning every gym.

Originally Posted by Gliscor'd

Ash is not weaker, you're repeating the same arguments. These are the same reserves winning every gym.

Yes, they win every Gym, but a good portion of their victories have been cheap and unsatisfying, so that doesn't make me think that they could get Ash to reach the Top 4 or Top 2 in a believable manner. If Ash does get that far in the League, the chances are great that it will be forced as well. That's probably what the main issue comes down to for me: believable victories, which are few and far between in his Gym battles. I also still don't think Ash's skills are great enough for getting a high rank in the tournament either. Like I mentioned before, if something drastic does happen and his Pokemon go through some good training to become stronger to make his victories more believable and satisfying, then great, but I don't think that's likely to happen.

I don't see the problem. Some may have been cheap but that doesn't mean the league battles will be any different.

Ash's reserves have never been portrayed as weak. Even baby Scaggy has become a good battler. I also get the feeling that by the league all his reserves will be fully evolved except maybe Palpitoad.

Ash is not weak and neither is this team. His losses to Trip were done for plot purposes which is why Trip also lost to people Ash already beat.