The TRio's attempts at stealing Ash's OTHER Pokemon?
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  1. #1
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    Default The TRio's attempts at stealing Ash's OTHER Pokemon?

    This is a follow up to the thread I made about the TRio's obsession with Pikachu.

    I figured that, knowing them, they would probably still insist on chasing the "twerps" (for some warped reason). So as a compromise, why not Jessie, James and Meowth try focusing on stealing some of Ash's OTHER Pokemon or the Pokemon of his friends? Surely there are plenty of other Pokemon on Ash's team (past and present, which includes released Pokemon) as well as the teams of his traveling partners that I'm sure Giovanni would have loved to have had for his army of powerful Pokemon as opposed to just Pikachu.

    Although I do seem to recall a few moments when they did so, I just don't seem to recall any off the top of my head.

    For Ash's Pokemon I suggest making attempts at stealing:

    -Charizard: What baffles me is why those 3 morons never made a SINGLE ATTEMPT at stealing perhaps Ash's most powerful Pokemon besides Pikachu. They never even really tried to steal from the Charicific Valley which had plenty of powerful Charizard that the boss would have killed for. One of the members, I don't know which one, even said that they always wanted a Charizard. So why didn't they make any attempts to steal Ash's?
    -Snorlax: A Snorlax weighs half a ton, it's one of (if not the) heaviest Pokemon ever. Thus would pack a powerful punch in battle. Ash's is most certainly no different. Giovanni would more than likely enjoy a Snorlax in his army (provided that he keeps a Pokeflute handy).
    -Lapras: Lapras are rare Pokemon, the TRio tried to steal it once or twice. Why couldn't they keep it up?
    -30 Tauros: Tauros are rare, Giovanni even used Mewtwo to capture a herd of them in the first movie. Why not "borrow" some of Ash's?
    -Muk: Those 3 shouldn't complain about having to steal a Muk when they had a couple of poison types themselves. Besides, most TR grunts in the games have mostly poison types.
    -Kingler: Giovanni himself has a Kingler, so how about going after Ash's?
    -Primeape: It defeated their stolen Hitmonlee to be crowned champion of the fighting tournament. The Boss must need a champion in it's army.
    etc, etc, etc.

    Or they could try and focus their efforts on stealing his friends' Pokemon. I'm sure Misty, Brock, Tracey, Gary, May, Drew, Dawn, Iris, Cilan, Serena, etc. have some rare, valuable, and powerful Pokemon worth stealing for Giovanni's army.

    I also can't recall any specific moments regarding the TRio and Ash's friends' Pokemon off the top of my head. Though they did try to present Misty's Togepi to Giovanni once.

    Which of Ash's other Pokemon besides Pikachu and which of the Pokemon of Ash's friends would you have tried to steal for the boss if you were in Jessie, James, and Meowth's shoes?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: The TRio's attempts at stealing Ash's OTHER Pokemon?

    While Team Rocket's main target always has been Pikachu, they're not unwilling to try to steal any of their other Pokemon. There have been plenty of cases where they've had some scheme to steal all of their Pokemon or just Pikachu and the secondary mascot of the current series like Togepi, Piplup and Axew. So I'm not really sure why you think that they don't try to steal other Pokemon besides Pikachu from the main cast.

    As for your suggestions, Charizard's strength is why they didn't go after it. I'm pretty sure that they said that they were afraid of Charizard because of its strength, although I don't know if that was added into the dub or not, and there was no way that they could have successfully stolen it or any of the Charizard in the Charicific Valley. They could have tried, but against that many powerful Pokemon, that wouldn't have worked. They tried to steal Snorlax a couple of times in the Orange Islands if I recall correctly, but it was too heavy for them to move it. They probably didn't go after Lapras more often due to how I think it was in its Pokeball most of the time when they did confront Ash and his friends during the Orange Islands and they didn't have any Pokeball stealing scheme during that arc if I recall correctly.

    Tauros, Kingler, Muk and Primeape aren't even with Ash's team. Most of them are at Professor Oak's lab, or in Primeape's case, left with another trainer, so in order to go after them specifically, they'd need to not chase after Ash's Pikachu, which isn't going to happen due to how that is their primarily target. Besides that, most of the reasoning you mentioned for them doesn't really make much sense. Just because the grunts in the games have Poison types doesn't mean that they should go after any Poison type Pokemon. Giovanni having a Kingler or using Mewtwo to capture a bunch oof Tauros doesn't really mean anything and Primeape left in the same episode where it did defeat their stolen Hitmonlee, so they wouldn't be able to try to steal it unless they stuck around that town for awhile. They've tried to steal other Pokemon besides Pikachu plenty of times, so this isn't really something new or rare.

  3. #3

    Default Re: The TRio's attempts at stealing Ash's OTHER Pokemon?

    Okay 1: Why are you even suggesting that they go after his other pokémon? It's bad enough that they're trying to steal Pikachu because they decided he's rare and powerful after he defeated them 1 time. And 2: The reason the idiots (still refuse to call them by name) don't go after his other pokémon is because they're too stupid and single-minded to think about doing something like that. They would only do that if they were given orders to. I mean look at the bw series the only reason they didn't follow Ash around throughout the majority of the series is because they were following orders given to them by Giovanni they didn't come up with it themselves. I think another reason why they don't go after his other pokémon (or his friends pokémon) is because they are completely incapable of learning (if they were then they would've stopped following Ash a long time ago). Most people in their position would've learned by now that he has other pokémon worth stealing but not them.
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    Default Re: The TRio's attempts at stealing Ash's OTHER Pokemon?

    Although I am aware that they had made attempts at other Pokemon, what I meant was that they should try focusing more of their energy on Pokemon that Giovanni would consider to be a formidable force in his army of Pokemon to use to take over the world with as opposed to spending most of their energy on Pikachu.

    As far as better reasons for Kingler and Muk: I'd say that if they had seen their performance in the Indigo League, such as Kingler's performance against Mandi on the water field as well as Muk's defeating of Janette's Bellsprout, would that have been reason enough to go after them? Plus they can always go after the Pokemon at Professor Oak's lab once Ash returns to Pallet.

    Or they could try focusing their energy on Ash's friends' Pokemon such as Misty's Gyarados, Starmie, and Politoed. Or how about Brock's Steelix and Crobat. Surely any of Gary's Pokemon would be considered powerful enough for Giovanni's use. And what about anything that May, Dawn, Iris, Cilan, Serena, etc have.

    But then again I'm thinking in terms of how an efficient Team Rocket agent would think in terms of impressing the boss. We're talking about Jessie, James, and Meowth, who have idiotic fantasies about how Giovanni would use the stolen Pokemon. I'm just offering suggestions on what to do if they still want to follow Ash and company.

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    Default Re: The TRio's attempts at stealing Ash's OTHER Pokemon?

    Quote Originally Posted by owenpeterson View Post
    Although I am aware that they had made attempts at other Pokemon, what I meant was that they should try focusing more of their energy on Pokemon that Giovanni would consider to be a formidable force in his army of Pokemon to use to take over the world with as opposed to spending most of their energy on Pikachu.

    As far as better reasons for Kingler and Muk: I'd say that if they had seen their performance in the Indigo League, such as Kingler's performance against Mandi on the water field as well as Muk's defeating of Janette's Bellsprout, would that have been reason enough to go after them? Plus they can always go after the Pokemon at Professor Oak's lab once Ash returns to Pallet.
    They already think that Pikachu would be a formidable force for his Pokemon army and to their credit, it's not unbelievable to think that at this point when Pikachu has had so much battle experience. Plus, they're under the impression that the boss would want a rare and valuable Pokemon like a Pikachu that could taken down legendary Pokemon. Considering how cheap Kingler's performance in the Indigo League was, that's really not a better reason to go after it specifically. A Muk defeating a Bellsprout, even as overpowered as that one was, isn't really better either. They have gone after Pokemon once Ash has return to Pallet Town a couple of times I think, so this isn't really new.

    Quote Originally Posted by owenpeterson
    Or they could try focusing their energy on Ash's friends' Pokemon such as Misty's Gyarados, Starmie, and Politoed. Or how about Brock's Steelix and Crobat. Surely any of Gary's Pokemon would be considered powerful enough for Giovanni's use. And what about anything that May, Dawn, Iris, Cilan, Serena, etc have.
    Going after any Pokemon from one of Ash's friends that are traveling elsewhere would require for them to not follow around Ash, which obviously going to happen, especially when Pikachu is still their primary target. Going after the current group's Pokemon honestly makes more sense with that in mind because they can get Pikachu and whatever other Pokemon they have.

    Quote Originally Posted by owenpeterson
    But then again I'm thinking in terms of how an efficient Team Rocket agent would think in terms of impressing the boss. We're talking about Jessie, James, and Meowth, who have idiotic fantasies about how Giovanni would use the stolen Pokemon. I'm just offering suggestions on what to do if they still want to follow Ash and company.
    They haven't had a ridiculous boss fantasy like that in ages. The last one that I think came up was the army of Snorlax they thought that they could get if they got a hold of the Poke Flute. I don't know if anything else has come up in more recent episodes like that. And again, going after any of his friends that aren't Serena, Clemont or Bonnie wouldn't allow them to capture more Pokemon while following Ash. Misty is in Kanto, Brock is traveling around, both Cilan and Iris are in Johto, although I guess Cilan could be in the Pokemon Fishing Contest by now, and both May and Dawn should be traveling somewhere besides Johto since both the Johto Grand Festival and Wallace Cup should have taken place long before now. It makes more sense to focus on the new group of friends that Ash is traveling around with than to go around to different regions to target his friends.

  6. #6

    Default Re: The TRio's attempts at stealing Ash's OTHER Pokemon?

    Team Rocket and their single-minded focus on Pikachu is, quite simply, one way of perpetually bringing the bond between Ash and his buddy to light over and over again. Team Rocket's flip-flopping nature between diabolical and comical (and sometimes even benevolent!) makes very little sense within the context of their roles as the staple villains, but beyond the fourth wall, one must keep in mind that they are first and foremost a device to encourage plot. The Pokémon animé has never been especially sophisticated in this regard, but friendship has always been one of its most important tenets, and as such we are beaten over the head repeatedly with the time-tested fact that Ash and Pikachu are bffs and nothing can keep them apart. Bad guys, mind control, even death--they've persevered through it it all.

    Unfortunately, Ash's relationship with his other Pokémon is not quite so poignant.

    That said, as demonstrated above, Team Rocket have made attempts on plenty of other Pokémon, Ash's own included, and usually the end result of the scheme has been the same--bond deepened, Ash tells Pokémon it is strong and great, etc.

    Still, most of these events have almost always been secondary goals to Getting Pikachu(tm). Team Rocket are not the brightest of the bunch when it comes to plotting, but I don't think it's just because they are a bit silly--I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that they don't really want to steal Ash's Pokémon. If I were to try to attribute any logic to their actions, I would suggest that they just want to follow him around and get in on his adventures. (If they were competent, I'd venture to suggest that this is actually a brilliant idea, considering the number of legendaries that seem to converge upon the boy on a semi-regular basis.)

    Despite all the flak he gets outside of it, within the anime, Ash is generally considered a Cool Guy. A lot of people look up to Ash for being so positive and selfless, and Team Rocket themselves aren't really such bad guys when you think about it. They're idiots with hearts of gold that got in with the wrong crowd and think they're completely awesome for it, but they aren't really cut out for their job. And that's good, because their job is being Bad. They might say they 'hate' him, but I have no doubt that Team Rocket harbors no contempt at all for Ash.

    If they were better representatives of their organization, they would do exactly what you have suggested, and go raid Professor Oak's laboratory, or follow some other trainers who are more likely to make a mistake. They wouldn't keep going after Pikachu, not necessarily because there's more powerful Pokémon out there, but because it has proven to them countless times that the chase is futile.

    But in the end, Team Rocket aren't competent villains. They're barely even villains at all. They are a source of conflict, yes, but they are also comic relief, and honestly quite sympathetic characters. They treat their Pokémon well, for example, and actually understand Ash and Pikachu's relationship. Going after Pikachu with all of their hearts is how they've reconciled their jobs with their personalities. Some part of Team Rocket knows they will always lose to Ash and Pikachu. And even if they didn't, even if one day they did win, and took Pikachu to Giovanni, I bet you anything they'd feel so guilty for it that they'd help get him back.

    So really, Team Rocket's targets don't matter so much when you realize what Team Rocket themselves are about. They put on a lot of bluff and bluster, they do some mean things, they invest a fair bit in machines and doohickeys, but they don't do it because they are super serious about their job, they do it because it makes them feel like they're a part of Team Rocket, which is a major part of their identity.

    I think the real question here is not "Why don't Team Rocket use their time and resources for more sensible thefts?", but instead, "Why does Giovanni keep these guys on his payroll?"

    That is, unfortunately, something I can't even begin to fathom!

  7. #7
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    Default Re: The TRio's attempts at stealing Ash's OTHER Pokemon?

    I agree. If they're going to be shoved into every single episode, trying to steal Pokémon, they need to go back to the old ways and capture the Pokémon featured during that specific episode instead of always Pikachu. It gets so stale and old after 800 episodes.

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    Default Re: The TRio's attempts at stealing Ash's OTHER Pokemon?

    Alternately, play with the conventions a bit with these:
    - Pikachu senses something suspect and electrocutes the TRio's disguises off. Or Froakie does.
    - Some pseudo-legendary gets in the way and blasts TRio off just before they get their hands on Pikachu. Bonus points if Ash does not notice, and only notice when TRio finally gets their hands on Pikachu in the last 1-5 minutes of the episode.
    - Officer Jenny actually arrests TRio! And we see an episode of Prison Break, TRio version!
    - TRio decides at the last moment to go after something else, only to have their asses handed over at the end.
    - A variation of the Malamar episode.
    - Bring back Butch/Cassidy, Domino Atilla/Hun etc and have them steal Ash's Pikachu. And Ash initially pins the blame on TRio and clobbers them - only to find out that it wasn't them this time. And Ash must rescue Pikachu in the span of 2-3 episodes. (Alternatively, have the local villains go after Ash's Pikachu. And showcase those villains more than TRio.)
    - Ash and Co declines the stranger's invitation, much to the chagrin of the strangers - who are TRio in disguise. Bonus points, if Ash and Co somehow manages to avoid all classic traps that TRio lays down. TRio loses patience at the end, and outright opposes Ash at the last 1-5 minutes of episode. (Which they could anyway, with XY Wobbuffet, Inkay, and Phanthump.)

    If they did these in the Johto saga, and only went after Pikachu in 1 out of 3-5 episodes, then even that alone would have made the fillers more interesting, do we think not?
    Last edited by henrymidfields; 14th July 2014 at 08:50 AM.

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