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Thread: Takeshi Shudo's Anime Novelization books

  1. #31

    Default Re: Takeshi Shudo's Anime Novelization books

    Quote Originally Posted by Archaic View Post
    The more I read about Takeshi Shudo's books, the more I think that it's appropriate for us to discount anything he's ever said about his own intentions for the anime. It's clear from those summaries that his vision of the world was quite off base from that we actually see in the anime.
    So we should completely discount the creator of the show, but fan interpretation of the anime is correct?

    Seriously Archaic? You're acting like these books completely contradict the anime, which isn't true at all.

    Quote Originally Posted by Archaic View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Madame Pika View Post
    Also I find it interesting that the guy whose made one of the funniest series in the show, could have had such sad intentions for the anime:
    Indeed. This guy really enjoyed his Grimdark, it seems. Though we probably shouldn't forget in saying that, that Satoshi Tajiri apparently once said that the Adventures manga, which is much darker than the anime at times, was closer to his original vision.
    We have no idea if Tajiri was even referencing the anime at all when he said that.

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Takeshi Shudo's Anime Novelization books

    Quote Originally Posted by FairyRed View Post
    When kids turn 10, they are legally treated as an adult. They have to pay tax, get arrested when they commit crime, can marry, can get a job, etc, etc.
    Dear god. o_o; I'm glad Mr. Shudo doesn't write for the anime anymore, ech. Just imagine all the disgusting lolicon fanart of Kasumi/Haruka/Hikari/Iris that might have become canon.
    I believe you're already too late for that. *points to Dawn's skirt*

    If that was still (ever!) a rule in the anime then Chili would have been fired a long time ago. Technically, Misty's sisters would have had their gym leader status revoked before Ash showed up to challenge them, since they had apparently just been wiped out by Gary and the other two Pallet Town trainers (unless they can count those as individual losses).
    I think this also reflects the games too since Cheren took Lenora's spot and Brycen is no longer a gym leader.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Takeshi Shudo's Anime Novelization books

    @Ghetsis-Dennis;

    Nah, it doesn't reflect the games. Entirely different departments.



    I'm not putting much into Shudo's novelizations either, it's interesting but shows just how much his ideals for the show were rejected at the time. Ten-year-olds committing to each other for life? It's obvious the anime went on an entirely different path, not that I dislike the Original Series but, I'm actually interested in BW's and DP's head-writers perspectives on things. I bet it would be interesting to hear, though i doubt they have nearly as much free room to do what they want in the same way as Shudo.

  4. #34

    Default Re: Takeshi Shudo's Anime Novelization books

    Quote Originally Posted by Archaic View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Madame Pika View Post
    Also I find it interesting that the guy whose made one of the funniest series in the show, could have had such sad intentions for the anime:
    Indeed. This guy really enjoyed his Grimdark, it seems. Though we probably shouldn't forget in saying that, that Satoshi Tajiri apparently once said that the Adventures manga, which is much darker than the anime at times, was closer to his original vision.
    Well it was. It had potions, it followed the game plot a little closer.. Back in Kanto it was closer to the games than the anime, 4komas, and Pocket Monsters.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Takeshi Shudo's Anime Novelization books

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghetsis-Dennis View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by FairyRed View Post
    If that was still (ever!) a rule in the anime then Chili would have been fired a long time ago. Technically, Misty's sisters would have had their gym leader status revoked before Ash showed up to challenge them, since they had apparently just been wiped out by Gary and the other two Pallet Town trainers (unless they can count those as individual losses).
    I think this also reflects the games too since Cheren took Lenora's spot and Brycen is no longer a gym leader.
    The games's canon has abseloutly nothing to do with anime canon. I think Tajiri or Masuda never intended for that.

    And besides, if all of that was put into game canon, then every gym leader would have revoked status.

    And Brycen was no longer a gym leader because he wanted to return to acting.
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  6. #36
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    Default Re: Takeshi Shudo's Anime Novelization books

    Very interesting, but I think they've been disproven by now. For one thing, we have absolutely no evidence through the entire run that 10-year-olds are treated as adults (certainly no marriages) and I'm pretty sure some episode in Hoenn or Johto disproved the one about Brock. I mean, from a fanfiction or headcanon point of view, this stuff is pretty interesting and a nice springboard, but by this point in time these kind of things (except Misty's sisters having black hair underneath) are rather unlikely.
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  7. #37
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    Default Re: Takeshi Shudo's Anime Novelization books

    It would have been awesome for this to have been reality like someone bribing ash to lose or Ash getting drunk off his ass and marrying misty and then they wake up in the same bed naked with no memories of the last night

  8. #38

    Default Re: Takeshi Shudo's Anime Novelization books

    Quote Originally Posted by Archaic View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Madame Pika View Post
    Also I find it interesting that the guy whose made one of the funniest series in the show, could have had such sad intentions for the anime:
    Indeed. This guy really enjoyed his Grimdark, it seems. Though we probably shouldn't forget in saying that, that Satoshi Tajiri apparently once said that the Adventures manga, which is much darker than the anime at times, was closer to his original vision.
    As far as I know Tajiri was only referring to the first volume of Adventures with that remark. At that point, Adventures was largely random adventures that Red went on, and it wasn't significantly grimmer than the anime is.

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Takeshi Shudo's Anime Novelization books

    I think that the only detail from these novelizations that is canon with the anime for sure is Misty being ten. I think that there was an episode in early Kanto in the Japanese version that referred to her as a ten year old, but I'm not completely sure which one. In any case, I think that Misty's age, as well as maybe some details like her sister's wearing wigs with their actual hair being black, is canon with the anime. We haven't seen any indication that ten is the legal adult age in this universe with kids being able to marry at that age. Not to mention a Gym Leader is treated as a position of honor, while these novelizations make it sounds like a terrible job. Plus, if three defeats did mean a disqualification, then Misty's sisters would have lost their status as Gym Leaders a long time ago and Fantina probably wouldn't have been able to travel around as often as she does, or at least get in more trouble than she clearly has in the anime. I think that these are just interesting reads as to what he wanted to set up the anime to be like rather than what is actually canon with the series, aside from maybe a few minor details here and there.

  10. #40

    Default Re: Takeshi Shudo's Anime Novelization books

    Quote Originally Posted by Gotpika View Post
    but, I'm actually interested in BW's and DP's head-writers perspectives on things. I bet it would be interesting to hear, though i doubt they have nearly as much free room to do what they want in the same way as Shudo.
    If you recall Shudo's blogs, he didn't have any free room. He was told what to do and that was that.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Takeshi Shudo's Anime Novelization books

    Takeshi Shudo books are always interesting read, but more you read them it becomes quite obvious how many things he said there was more his own perspective on how should pokemon world look like and interpretation, than actual canon.

    Originally he wanted to write pokemon like family show aimed at all groups of people, but since producers and other people in charge felt otherwise he wasn't given liberty in writing pokemon in way he wanted becoming frustrated.

    Many things he mentioned in this books were perhaps things he originally wanted to implement as canon but ended up abandoned with anime over the years contradicting them.

    For example it is said how "gym leaders after three defeats loses his job". But that's anything but true because already in 7th episode Misty sisters said to Ash how they lost three times in row with most pokemon ending at center not being in position for battling. And they definitely weren't in danger of losing their position at all.

    It is said how Ash father and grandfather were failure as trainers, but ex pokemon director Masamitsu Hidaka in interview from 2008 mentioned how Ash grandfather was great trainer who traveled long ago with father following same footsteps.

    10 year old's being treated like adults, yet in anime for several things they are still treated like kids. I remember several cases when nurse Joy or officer Jenny didn't let Ash and co to go outside in middle of night, saying how kids like them should be in bed by now. Overprotective parents which don't want to let their kids to travel thinking pokeworld is too dangerous for them etc.
    Etc, etc.

    So while there are many interesting points there, i take some things with grain of salt obviously never finding way to become part of canon.

    More i think about it , everything he said in his novelizations before shouldn't be taken for granted either.

  12. #42

    Default Re: Takeshi Shudo's Anime Novelization books

    I think we can safely say that these novelizations aren't canon with the Pokemon Anime, because if they were, I would think not many kids would end up watching it...

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Takeshi Shudo's Anime Novelization books

    Quote Originally Posted by Darthbane2007 View Post
    I think we can safely say that these novelizations aren't canon with the Pokemon Anime, because if they were, I would think not many kids would end up watching it...
    Shudo didn't intend the show to be just for kids. It was aimed at broad audience of all ages.

    Shudo was aware that his ideas would probably make the show less popular, but as he said in his blogs, he didn't care about money or show's popularity as much as he cared for creativity, originality and ability to convey his messages.

    Imo, I don't think that many kids would stop watching it. Maybe that would be the thing abroad, but in Japan? I don't think so. Western kids are pretty much raised on sweet, naive and innocent Disney movies. But is it what the real life is like? No. It tends to kick your ass pretty hard. I know that people want their kids to remain sweet, naive and innocent as long as possible, as those are priviledges of childhood. But I think it would be better if cartoons showed some real life problems and showed how to deal with them in realistic way (not by some magic or some bullshit like that). So the kids won't be shocked when they meet these circumstances in real life, because they'll be prepared.
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  14. #44
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    Default Re: Takeshi Shudo's Anime Novelization books

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeshi View Post
    Western kids are pretty much raised on sweet, naive and innocent Disney movies.
    Bambi and The Lion King would like a word with you.

    As for creativity, originality, and ability to convey, all I hear are negative responses from everyone here because of his original vision ranging from 10-year-olds treated like adults to gym leaders being a terrible job.

  15. #45

    Default Re: Takeshi Shudo's Anime Novelization books

    You can be creative and original without resorting to weird things like 10-year-olds being able to marry. :/ I do like the origin of Pokemon thing, but the rest of it... eeehh.

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