Should Ash Re-challenge the Kanto Gym Leaders whom he got the "Free Badges" from?

View Poll Results: Can Ash Re-challenge Brock (or Forrest), Misty, Erika, and Sabrina?

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  • Yes! I want to see Ash earn those badges the right way.

    9 28.13%
  • No! Ash shouldn't waste his time with them.

    19 59.38%
  • I'm not sure.

    4 12.50%
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Thread: Should Ash Re-challenge the Kanto Gym Leaders whom he got the "Free Badges" from?

  1. #1
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    Default Should Ash Re-challenge the Kanto Gym Leaders whom he got the "Free Badges" from?

    I've heard a lot of fans complaining about how half of Ash's Kanto gym badges weren't earned properly.

    Specifically the Bolderbadge, Cascadebadge, Rainbowbadge, and Marshbadge.

    Now I don't blame Ash for these "free badges". The blame specifically goes to the gym leaders: Brock, Misty's Sisters, Erika, and Sabrina. It was their decision to give Ash their gym badges without him actually defeating them in a gym battle. This makes me question their integrity as gym leaders.

    The blame also goes to the writers for their warped mindsets when writing these episodes. I don't think I'll ever understand them.

    Ash knows full well that when he looks back on his gym badge record, those 4 Kanto gym badges are going to have asterisks beside them. And if this winds up haunting Ash down the road, it will be Brock's, Daisy, Violet, and Lily's, Sabrina's and Erika's faults. And if the Pokemon League found out about this, I'd imagine they'd get in serious trouble for it.

    But I believe that there is a way to fix this. I say that they should have Ash Ketchum return to Kanto, travel to the Pewter City, Cerulean City, Celadon City, and Saffron City Gyms and have Ash re-challenge AND DEFEAT Brock (or Forrest if he can't), Misty (with Pikachu actually battling her), Erika, and Sabrina to properly earn their gym badges, thus eliminating the asterisks from his record.

    What do you say? Would you like to see Ash go back and earn half of his Kanto badges the right way?

  2. #2
    someone in the dark garrison-san's Avatar
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    Default Re: Should Ash Re-challenge the Kanto Gym Leaders whom he got the "Free Badges" from?

    The majority of gym battles in Kanto were poorly done, but I'd say that it's all water under the bridge now. Something tells me that Ash isn't losing any sleep over it in-universe either.

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    Default Re: Should Ash Re-challenge the Kanto Gym Leaders whom he got the "Free Badges" from?

    I don't think so, it clearly stated it up to the leader's discretion who they hand out badges too, the games even imply with the Clair that even losing an official match doesn't mean you HAVE to hand the badge over their can still be another test.

    Also remember Volkner abandoned his gym altogether and just left a box full of badges for anyone to take.

    The badges are a symbol that the gym leader recognises that you deserve it, it doesn't necesarily have to be battling for you to earn it.

    If he got to the Pokemon League and was out in the first round, then I guess they could call into question his suitability but actually he did quite well, so those 4 were validated in their decision to award him badges.

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    Default Re: Should Ash Re-challenge the Kanto Gym Leaders whom he got the "Free Badges" from?

    The writers aren't going to waste time with having Ash redo past Gym battles. Not that I'm happy with the way how half of Kanto's Gym battles were handled, but what's happened happened, and Ash proved himself by getting to the top 16 (out of 256!) at the Kanto League while half of his Badges required to enter were pity Badges.

    And it's not something I think I'd wanna see. I'd much rather see Ash challenge new Gym Leaders with new Pokémon and new challenges than him going back and challenge the old ones we've already seen.

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    Default Re: Should Ash Re-challenge the Kanto Gym Leaders whom he got the "Free Badges" from?

    Eh not really, they could've done it during De Colore as it was filler, or even AG when they were in Kanto for a season.

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    Default Re: Should Ash Re-challenge the Kanto Gym Leaders whom he got the "Free Badges" from?

    No! Ash shouldn't waste his time with them. ---> it's a waste of time, Ash reached top 16 in the Indigo League, it may have been luck but that redeems him IMO (I bet many people that got badges the right way got a lower rank than him in the league haha)
    Last edited by R!ck; 10th May 2014 at 01:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Should Ash Re-challenge the Kanto Gym Leaders whom he got the "Free Badges" from?

    Nope, he should'nt IMHO, most of those were done when the anime was setting itself up.

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    Default Re: Should Ash Re-challenge the Kanto Gym Leaders whom he got the "Free Badges" from?

    While the majority of Kanto Gym battles were poorly done and these were pity badges, I don't see why Ash would go back just to re-challenge them. It would be a waste of time to go back to Kanto just to battle these Gym Leaders and it wouldn't even make sense in-universe. I really doubt that Ash looks back on these battles, regretting how he got his badges. He's more focused on the present and future than the past, so it wouldn't fit with his character.

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    Default Re: Should Ash Re-challenge the Kanto Gym Leaders whom he got the "Free Badges" from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Oras View Post
    I don't think so, it clearly stated it up to the leader's discretion who they hand out badges too, the games even imply with the Clair that even losing an official match doesn't mean you HAVE to hand the badge over their can still be another test.
    Pretty sure that was just Clair being immature and a sore loser. In Crystal, and HG/SS she just gives the player the Rising Badge when the Elder threatens to tell Lance about her poor behavior. She doesn't give the player the badge because of the test they took. In Gold and Silver, there was no test, and she simply comes and gives you the badge when you pick up the Dragon Fang inside the Dragon's Den, saying that she recognizes your power. So it just seems like brattiness on her part.
    Last edited by Ambipom666; 10th May 2014 at 02:21 PM.

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  10. #10

    Default Re: Should Ash Re-challenge the Kanto Gym Leaders whom he got the "Free Badges" from?

    I don't know if I'd even call them "pity badges" for how much people complain about them.

    Ash beat Brock by using the field to his advantage (and Ash originally conceded the match but Brock gave him the badge anyway). Misty's sisters were right in that if Ash had Pikachu battle, he would have won easily. He saved Erika's first Pokemon from a ~burning building~, and Sabrina... Well that one's kind of sketchy but Kadabra wasn't able to continue battling.

    He didn't "earn" them in the sense that he literally knocked out all of their Pokemon, but they all had legit reasons for giving him the badges.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Should Ash Re-challenge the Kanto Gym Leaders whom he got the "Free Badges" from?

    I'm very torn on this. On one hand, what Oras said makes a lot of sense. However, the same is true for what Owenpeterson said.

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    Default Re: Should Ash Re-challenge the Kanto Gym Leaders whom he got the "Free Badges" from?

    I would like to Ash have rematch with the Kanto Gym Leaders.... if only to see how much they have changed. Kanto Gym Leaders are unique amongst the Gym Leaders in the anime because very few actually resemble their game counterpart designs (Koga being the only one who actually has his game design). I wonder if they would update them in their game counterpart clothes or do a modern revamp of the show's design.

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    Default Re: Should Ash Re-challenge the Kanto Gym Leaders whom he got the "Free Badges" from?

    I guess then I was wrong about the idea of Ash Re-challenging those gym leaders. But that still doesn't mean that I like those episodes any better.

    But in defense of my opinion though, Misty herself had been openly critical of Ash's pity badges in the series.

    As a compromise though, I suppose it's possible to re-challenge Brock and Misty to a free battle any time he wants, since they are his friends after all.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Should Ash Re-challenge the Kanto Gym Leaders whom he got the "Free Badges" from?

    Quote Originally Posted by owenpeterson View Post
    I guess then I was wrong about the idea of Ash Re-challenging those gym leaders. But that still doesn't mean that I like those episodes any better.

    But in defense of my opinion though, Misty herself had been openly critical of Ash's pity badges in the series.

    As a compromise though, I suppose it's possible to re-challenge Brock and Misty to a free battle any time he wants, since they are his friends after all.
    I wouldn't say you were wrong. You are entitled to your own opinion, especially in friendly context like this. Don't let what other say sway you unless you are fully comfortable with changing your opinion. Just because an idea isn't popular doesn't mean that its wrong, necessarily.

    Now in my opinion, I think Ash deserved his badges and thus does not need to re-challenge, with my reasoning exactly as Yash's. Now, did he do this in common fashion akin to most trainers? No, not at all. But the fact that he did some impressive feats (such as saving Erika's beloved Gloom from certain doom and effectively ceasing Sabrina's horrible character for good) measures up to winning the badge through battle, at least in my opinion.
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  15. #15
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    Default Re: Should Ash Re-challenge the Kanto Gym Leaders whom he got the "Free Badges" from?

    He should certainly battle those Gym leaders again just for the sake of development - that's why I was disappointed that the anime didn't take the opportunity that Unova's Pokemon World Tournament could have provided to do that.

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