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  1. #106
    Jacen the Robot Floatzel Robo-Floatzel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rocket/Meloetta Episodes

    Quote Originally Posted by SammyW27 View Post
    Oh dear. No other Rockets to help out except the Grunts (who will probably be just as useless as ever). *sigh* This better be good (though let's not get our hopes to high.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Mecha View Post
    So, we get a two parter before the league. Pretty much annihilate any chance of N, Colress and Ghetsis ever appearing in Best wishes.
    Oh Doc, ya had to know they had no chance after a year had passed.

    This series as been downright cruel to Pokevillain fans, hasn't it?

    DP gave us some great antagony, which one of the reasons is was the Best Pokemon Anime (IMO). BW barely has any at all and is worse off for it.

    I realize we have no right to complain, but sucky situation is still sucky
    I agree with you, BW not only has a lack of villains, there's barely any conflict in the series other than the rivalries, which most of the time, are limited to tournaments, and nothing more, with Team Rocket apparently being slowly phased out of the show anymore, you'd expect them to introduce new villains, but they just have Ash and friends go and help out random people and stuff, with virtually no conflict whatsoever.

    Though to be fair, the Pokemon anime has never been fair to villains not named "Team Rocket" (or the TRio at least), Team Magma and Aqua were handled terribly, as 90% of their appearances were both together, and they were always bickering with each other with virtually no conflict whatsoever, that and they acted barely anything like their game selves. Team Galactic was handled well, though there were two problems, one being that they only appeared in a maximum of 11 episodes of a total 200 or so episodes of DP, leaving the TRio to be the villains for the rest of the time (sure there was Hunter J, but she didn't appear in too many episodes either), the other main problem was how they handled Cyrus, whom was portrayed as a generic "take over the world" villain (of course!) rather than a cynical and complex villain who was after creating his own world.

    As for Team Plasma, since the Plasma embargo is still in effect, we have no idea if they will ever appear, or if the writers made it so that Team Plasma never even existed in this world to begin with, we are honestly not sure yet, only time, the Unova League, and the announcement of Generation 6 will tell, though it's obvious that they cannot avoid it in the upcoming Genesect movie because of Genesect's Pokedex entry, though we don't know yet if the writers will use Team Plasma in Movie 16 or make a new set of villains, which would pretty much miss the entire point...

    I mean, first off, could you imagine a Pokemon anime without any villains? Think about it, it would be a pretty boring show if there were no villains or conflict.
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  2. #107
    Shooty Refutey Crysta Blade's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rocket/Meloetta Episodes

    Quote Originally Posted by Signas View Post
    This is the fan in me speaking, but I'm rather annoyed that Cynthia gets to appear here, yet Alder doesn't. This is his region, shouldn't he be helping to protect it?
    The same reason Lance showed up in the Aqua/Magma thing, but Steven/Wallace never did: because...um, yeah, good question. God only knows, or in this case, the people behind the show, I guess.

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  3. #108
    Team Rocket Agent KatsumiChris1991's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rocket/Meloetta Episodes

    The problem is that the villains aren't treated like ACTUAL villains, they always lose one way or another, why don't they ever have the bad guys do some irreversible damage that not even Ash can control and stop, I know they won't ever have a death happen, but maybe they should.

  4. #109
    Child of the Atom Hellion's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rocket/Meloetta Episodes

    In this week's episode of the Iris show: Iris' Kairyu is portrayed to be just as strong as Shirona's Gablias, goes toe-to-toe with legendaries and even hurts that one legendary Pokémon that all of the main characters' Pokémon combine couldn't even slow down... Meanwhile, Satoshi has trouble with Koromori and Desumasu, Yanappu is portrayed to be so inept at battling it tries his hands at being a backpack and Dent is invisible. Don't miss the next underwhelming episode of the Iris show! XD

    Seriously, thank you, because Iris just hasn't been unjustly glorified enough lately, I think we really needed this extra reminder that her Pokémon are just so much more powerful than everybody else's except maybe Shirona (maybe...). Honestly, I'm not really feeling these episodes for a couple of reasons, beyond the one stated above. First off, this kinda looks like Ginga-Dan finale 2.0 except replace Hunter J with Zeger (serious downgrade). Second, I don't really care about Team Rocket to begin with. I've thought they were repetitive and boring in previous saga except in the episodes that really focused on them and their relationship, their Pokémon, in short, the episodes that treated them like characters in their own right and not some contrived requisite plot point to solve COTD #2156436's problem with his Pokémon. Their transition to seriousness has led to some underwhelming specials and so I haven't had really a lot of reasons to care what happens to them one way or the other. I don't think they'll die, but if they do... meh. Speaking of Meh, Meloetta, or should I say Mehloetta. Again, if it gets hurt by Team Rocket, I don't really give a crap because it's been boring the crap out of me with its lack of personality for the past 6-7 weeks. Can't wait until it leaves.

    Overall, the episode visually looks good, kind intrigued to see what happened to Sakaki (his coming back might be the only saving grace of this special for me), but... 1-2 episodes that focus on the TRio, Meloetta, Iris and Shirona. Yeah... there's nothing really there to rock my world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robo-Floatzel View Post
    I mean, first off, could you imagine a Pokemon anime without any villains? Think about it, it would be a pretty boring show if there were no villains or conflict.
    A lack of vilains doesn't mean a lack of conflict. BW has actually had many episodes present a conflict without Team Rocket being involved and I'd rather see more variety in terms of plot than go back to the "TR streals Pokémon of the week, Satoshi rescues them" formula. Making rivals more fleshed out and present, having a variety of occasional villains, would do the show some good.

  5. #110
    Jacen the Robot Floatzel Robo-Floatzel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rocket/Meloetta Episodes

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    In this week's episode of the Iris show: Iris' Kairyu is portrayed to be just as strong as Shirona's Gablias, goes toe-to-toe with legendaries and even hurts that one legendary Pokémon that all of the main characters' Pokémon combine couldn't even slow down... Meanwhile, Satoshi has trouble with Koromori and Desumasu, Yanappu is portrayed to be so inept at battling it tries his hands at being a backpack and Dent is invisible. Don't miss the next underwhelming episode of the Iris show! XD

    Seriously, thank you, because Iris just hasn't been unjustly glorified enough lately, I think we really needed this extra reminder that her Pokémon are just so much more powerful than everybody else's except maybe Shirona (maybe...).
    I do agree with you, the writers seem intent on making Iris a God-mode Mary Sue who gets more focus than Ash does, I understand that she's the champion in BW2, but that doesn't give the writers the excuse to make her character overpowered, in fact, they've done this with every Elite Four member and Champion in the series (save for Gary Oak), making them overpowered and basically unbeatable, essentially completely missing the point of the characters that you have to defeat each of them in order to beat the game, and they basically make their Pokemon seem like genetically-enhanced Super Soldiers. Not to mention that they have NO FREAKING PERSONALITY, pretty much making them all Mary Sues/Gary Stus in the anime.

    I mean, all of Iris's pre-Dragonite Pokemon were at least at a decent level of power, but after she got a Dragonite, it just gave the writers an excuse to make her character overpowered.

    Honestly, I'm not really feeling these episodes for a couple of reasons, beyond the one stated above. First off, this kinda looks like Ginga-Dan finale 2.0 except replace Hunter J with Zeger (serious downgrade). Second, I don't really care about Team Rocket to begin with. I've thought they were repetitive and boring in previous saga except in the episodes that really focused on them and their relationship, their Pokémon, in short, the episodes that treated them like characters in their own right and not some contrived requisite plot point to solve COTD #2156436's problem with his Pokémon. Their transition to seriousness has led to some underwhelming specials and so I haven't had really a lot of reasons to care what happens to them one way or the other. I don't think they'll die, but if they do... meh. Speaking of Meh, Meloetta, or should I say Mehloetta. Again, if it gets hurt by Team Rocket, I don't really give a crap because it's been boring the crap out of me with its lack of personality for the past 6-7 weeks. Can't wait until it leaves.
    I also agree with you there, while I like how they are doing different things than the infamous formula that has been repeated for years now, but I do agree that it appears that they are just recycling the Team Galactic finale, not to mention the serious villain decay that has occurred to the TRio in recent years, true that in previous sagas, episodes that focused on the TRio's characters tended to be rather enjoyable, nowadays, they're just boring anymore. While the writers have attempted to make the TRio more serious in recent years, it's clear that they weren't sure how exactly to do it, so they simply stripped them of all of their characterization and character traits, and made them into essentially boring villains with no personality

    Speaking of personality, I also agree with you on Meloetta, it's not a very interesting character, and it has one of the most boring personalities in the entire franchise, then again, the anime writers are well known for not knowing how to give characters a personality, the Pokemon anime is probably the king of having the most characters without a personality, there is an important rule about writing a character for a series, and that is that it needs to have some form of personality.

    Overall, the episode visually looks good, kind intrigued to see what happened to Sakaki (his coming back might be the only saving grace of this special for me), but... 1-2 episodes that focus on the TRio, Meloetta, Iris and Shirona. Yeah... there's nothing really there to rock my world.
    I can agree with that though, the visuals of the episode are quite the eye candy, and I am interested in seeing Giovanni's fate, though the fact that it mainly focuses on some of the blandest characters in the series, two which are anymore overpowered Mary Sues (Iris and Cynthia), and three (the TRio) which used to be considered by many to be the most interesting characters in the anime for a long time, so yeah, I do not know what to say about the episode...

    Quote Originally Posted by Robo-Floatzel View Post
    I mean, first off, could you imagine a Pokemon anime without any villains? Think about it, it would be a pretty boring show if there were no villains or conflict.
    A lack of vilains doesn't mean a lack of conflict. BW has actually had many episodes present a conflict without Team Rocket being involved and I'd rather see more variety in terms of plot than go back to the "TR streals Pokémon of the week, Satoshi rescues them" formula. Making rivals more fleshed out and present, having a variety of occasional villains, would do the show some good.
    I can agree on that though, but while the anime is trying to add more variety in the plotlines, I do think the anime needs some form of villain in it, whether it be an existing villain from the games or one made exclusively for the anime.
    Last edited by Robo-Floatzel; 20th August 2012 at 07:10 AM.
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  6. #111

    Default Re: Rocket/Meloetta Episodes

    Kairyu got in one hit that didn't do any damage at all, and otherwise we saw about one second of Iris.

    Go to the Iris debate thread if you want to complain about her. Don't bring it here when she has absolutely nothing to do with these episodes.

  7. #112
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    Default Re: Rocket/Meloetta Episodes

    I like Team rocket like this because there not in every single episode

  8. #113
    Team Rocket Agent KatsumiChris1991's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rocket/Meloetta Episodes

    Quote Originally Posted by p96822 View Post
    I like Team rocket like this because there not in every single episode
    And they are no longer treated like a joke like how they were in the Advanced Generation series and the Diamond and Pearl series

  9. #114
    YOU! SHALL NOT! PASS!! SammyW27's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rocket/Meloetta Episodes

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellion View Post
    A lack of vilains doesn't mean a lack of conflict. BW has actually had many episodes present a conflict without Team Rocket being involved and I'd rather see more variety in terms of plot than go back to the "TR streals Pokémon of the week, Satoshi rescues them" formula. Making rivals more fleshed out and present, having a variety of occasional villains, would do the show some good.
    Hell, that's more or less what they did in DP and that worked out rather well (at least IMO).

    I could live with the lack of villiany if the Rivals were better like in AG & DP, but I wouldn't really call the Rivals in BW "fleshed out" or "present"...

    In ORAS, Team Aqua will be black & dirty while Team Magma is white & nerdy!

  10. #115

    Default Re: Rocket/Meloetta Episodes

    I wonder, will this be a 2-part episode? And seeing as how BW2 is having continuity with past series, I'd like some references to their past events like Mewtwo, although that would be totally out of the blue but this is their "last episode" and their most memorable event has to be the one with Mewtwo.

  11. #116
    pokemon fan 132 pokemon fan 132's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rocket/Meloetta Episodes

    As far as preview goes i guess it was ok. Not outstanding for me anyway, but i guess it was decent. Whole thing about Meloetta being brainwashed seems intriguing enough and its good to see she will be involved in something important, rather than just serving as tag along to main cast. And battle between Kami trio and twerps seems pretty cool too, with dr. Zager research about Meloetta voicing abilities serving as foreshadowing for this this.

    Even though in preview Giovanni seems to be falling into death, im not sure if he will really die, this is kids show after all and such things are real rarity in here. You could argue how Hunter J died, but even that writers left her ending ambiguous not confirming such thing.

    If anything it sounds much more plausible that JJM trio are going to save him, with Giovanni not showing any gratitude or caring for them making them realize how being Team Rocket recruits isn't for them abandoning it.
    I could see Giovanni ending up arrested though.

    Im also not sure if this signals end of Jessie, James and Meowth existence in pokemon series either, because even if TR organization gets disband that doesn't necessarily mean how Rocket trio wont stay. One of main reasons behind this doubt comes from fact how with their departure there will be left big gap in pokemon series lacking recurring villains, conflict and humor which TR with their presence established cementing their presence for last 15 years.
    Granted they could add new recurring villains, but it wouldn't serve much point when current characters are already fulfilling this role nor i think writers have desire and wiling to invest in new characters.

    In other news i guess Dawn wont be staying past Junior Cup, though we could still say she got longer appearance than past girls did.

    As far as their personality goes, being serious and competent is one form of characterization as well, so i wouldn't describe JJM in BW as "deprived of personality". Especially when it was showed how they still have older traits which can be noticed when Meowth joined cast for awhile to trick them, and in some other instances from BW episodes, where we could see goofy aspect of them.

    As characters Jessie and James probably find their promotion and Giovanni thrust very important to them, not wanting fail down his expectations and deciding to put their heads together, being focused only on their missions and how to impress him.
    Especially if episode from hosos "Training Daze"was anything to go by, showing TR ambitions, their skills and what they wanted to be. Jessie and James acted similarly to how they act now in BW being actually competent and successful for a change, but it wasn't until BW that writers decided to change role becoming actual villains instead of comic relief.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robo-Floatzel View Post
    Speaking of personality, I also agree with you on Meloetta, it's not a very interesting character, and it has one of the most boring personalities in the entire franchise, then again, the anime writers are well known for not knowing how to give characters a personality, the Pokemon anime is probably the king of having the most characters without a personality, there is an important rule about writing a character for a series, and that is that it needs to have some form of personality.
    Can't say i noticed this. Many main characters has lot of personality(like Ash, May, Misty, Cilan etc), several rivals or recurring characters have defining traits and quite a few cotds had memorable characterization as well.

    As far as Meloetta goes in my opinion it is intriguing enough as pokemon. I like her enthusiasm and affection to Ash, shy nature and Oshawott and Piplup rivalry to win her over was funny as well.
    But to each their own.

  12. #117
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    Default Re: Rocket/Meloetta Episodes

    Quote Originally Posted by 투 애니원 View Post
    I wonder, will this be a 2-part episode? And seeing as how BW2 is having continuity with past series, I'd like some references to their past events like Mewtwo, although that would be totally out of the blue but this is their "last episode" and their most memorable event has to be the one with Mewtwo.
    Why would they mention that after all these years? I get the past references, but I've been dying to see some N and Team Plasma action or something related to it. So past references can wait until the other newer Pokemon get a chance to get kidnapped or violated.

  13. #118
    Team Rocket Agent KatsumiChris1991's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rocket/Meloetta Episodes

    Quote Originally Posted by 투 애니원 View Post
    I wonder, will this be a 2-part episode? And seeing as how BW2 is having continuity with past series, I'd like some references to their past events like Mewtwo, although that would be totally out of the blue but this is their "last episode" and their most memorable event has to be the one with Mewtwo.
    Didn't Mewtwo wipe away Giovanni's memory at the end of Mewtwo Returns?

  14. #119
    No, Not Yet Joshawott's Avatar Forum Head
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    Default Re: Rocket/Meloetta Episodes

    I wonder, do they mean the end of Team Rocket as in the organisation, or Team Rocket as in Jessie, James and Meowth? I imagine it will only be the former, not the latter.

  15. #120
    ~Love Is Hard To Define~ Midnight Blue's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rocket/Meloetta Episodes

    I forgot all about Giovanni having is memory erased. But Ash and co did not have their memories erased that time. So technically this is Giovanni's first time meeting Ash. However referencing Mewtwo to me seems irrelevant to these episodes. I feel that is for Genesect which is off topic in this thread.

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